Tradition and Revolution 传统与革命
—— PUPUL JAYAKAR and SUNANDA PATWARDHAN 普普尔 & 苏南达.帕瓦当 1972.5.11
Since 1947 J. Krishnamurti, while in India, has been regularly meeting and holding dialogues with a group of people drawn from a variety of cultural backgrounds and disciplines - intellectuals, politicians, artists, sannyasis. During these years, the methodology of investigation has richened and taken shape. What is revealed in these dialogues, as if through a microscope, is the extraordinarily fluid, vast and subtle mind of Krishnamurti and the operational process of perception.
自1947年以来，吉杜.克里希那穆提在印度期间， 经常与来自不同文化背景和专业的人们会面并进行对话。 其中有知识分子、政治家、艺术家、桑雅生。 这些年来，调查的方法逐渐丰富和成形。 在这些对话中，所揭示出来的东西，如同透过显微镜， 是克里希那穆提异常流畅、浩瀚和微妙的心灵和感知的操作过程。
These dialogues are, however, not questions and answers. They are an investigation into the structure and nature of consciousness, an exploration of the mind, its movements, its frontiers and that which lies beyond. It is also an approach to the way of mutation.
然而，这些对话不是问题和答案。 它们是对意识结构和性质的深入调查， 是对头脑，对它的行为、它的边界及其以外的探索。 它也是一种突变方式的途径。
There has been in these dialogues a coming together of several totally varied and conditioned minds. There has been a deep challenging of the mind of Krishnamurti, a relentless questioning that has opened up the depths of man's psyche. One is a witness not only to the expanding and deepening of the "limitless" but also to its impact on the limited mind. This very enquiry leaves the mind flexible, freeing it from the immediate past and from the grooves of centuries of conditioning.
在这些对话中，几个完全不同的、受到局限的头脑一起前行。 克里希那穆提的头脑受到了深刻的挑战， 一种严格的质疑，开启了心灵的深处。 这个人是目击者，而不只是在扩大和深化 ‘无限’， 而是对受限的头脑产生了冲击。 正是这种调查，使头脑灵活， 使它从不久的过去中解放，从几个世纪以来形成的习俗中解放出来。
In these dialogues Krishnamurti starts questioning from a totally tentative position, from a state of "not-knowing", and in a sense, therefore, he starts at the same level as the participants. During the discussion, various analytical enquiries are made; tentative and exploratory.
在这些对话中， 克里希那穆提从一个完全试探性的姿态开始质疑，从一种 “不知道” 的状态中出发， 因此，在某种意义上，他和参与者处在相同的起跑线上。 在讨论中，进行了各种分析性调研；带着试探性和专研性。
There is a questioning without seeking immediate solution: a step by step observation of the processes of thought and its unfoldment - a movement of penetration and withdrawal, every movement plunging attention deeper and deeper into the recesses of the mind.
一种不寻求立即解决的质疑： 一步一步地观察思想的过程及其延展 —— 一个渗透和撤退的动作，每一个动作，都使关注度越来越深地进入到心灵的深处。
A delicate wordless communication takes place; an exposure of the movement of negation as it meets the positive movement of thought. There is the "seeing" of fact, of "what is", and the mutation of "what is". This is again perceived from various directions to examine its validity.
一个微妙的无言沟通发生了; 一个否定动作在展开的同时，与思想的肯定动作相遇。 有对事实的 ‘看见’，对 ‘是什么’ 的 ‘看见’，以及 ‘是什么’ 的突变。 再一次，从各个方向感知，检视其有效性。
The nature of duality and non-duality are revealed in simple language. In that state of questioning, a state when the questioner, the experiencer has ceased, in a flash, "truth" is revealed. It is a state of total non-thought.
二元性和非二元性的性质用简单的语言揭示了出来。 在这种质疑的状态下，当提问者、体验者消失的时候，一瞬间，‘真相’ 被揭开。 它是一种完全没有思想的状态。
The mind which is the vessel of movement, when that movement has no form, no "me", no vision, no image, it is completely quiet - In it there is no memory. Then the brain cells undergo a change - The brain cells are used to movement in time.
头脑作为运动的容器， 当这个运动没有形式，没有 ‘我’，没有幻像，没有形象的时候，它彻底地安静 —— 其中没有记忆。 然后脑细胞经历一场变化 —— 那些曾经习惯于在时间内运动的脑细胞们。
They are the residue of time and time is movement; a movement within the space which it creates as it moves - When there is no movement, there is tremendous focus of energy - So mutation is the understanding of movement, and the ending of movement in the brain cells themselves.
它们是时间的残余，时间是运动；它的动作，创造了空间 —— 当没有了动作，就有巨大的能量汇聚 —— 所以突变是对运动的理解，以及脑细胞自身运动的结束。
The revelation of the instant of mutation, of "what is", provides a totally new dimension to the whole field of intellectual and religious enquiry.
突变的显露，也是 ‘是什么’的发觉， 给整个智力和宗教的研究领域提供了一个全新的维度。
There may be repetitions in the dialogues but they have not been eliminated, because to do so would have inhibited the understanding of the nature of consciousness and the method of enquiry.
对话中可能会有重复，但它们并没有被消除， 因为这样做会抑制对意识的性质和质疑方式的理解。
We feel that these discussions will be of major significance and of assistance to those seeking a clue to the understanding of the self and of life.
我们感觉这些讨论将具有重大意义， 对那些寻求某个线索，去理解自我和生命的人有所帮助。