the beginning of learning 学习入门
Q: Can we talk about reaction and how the moment we are reacting we don't see that we are reacting, only afterwards?
发问者：我们可以谈谈反应吗？ 为何在反应的那一刻，我们看不到我们正在反应，却在之后才意识到？
K: Do you all want to discuss that? I think we can include that if we could discuss something with wider scope. We all want to fulfil, don't we?
克里希那穆提：你们都想讨论那吗？ 我想，如果我们可以讨论更广泛的内容，我们可以将它包括在内。 我们都想得到满足，不是吗？
Q: What do you mean by fulfil?
发问者：你所说的满足是什么意思？
K: Don't you feel that you would like to express yourself in different ways? - either writing a poem, or wearing a certain type of dress, or you want to become something in life.
克里希那穆提：你有这种想法吗：想用不同的方式来展现你自己 —— 写一首诗，穿着某种类型的衣服，或者在生命中成为某种类型的人物。
Q: In fact, when you talk about it you see through it, but it's deeper than that.
发问者：事实上，当你谈论它时，你看穿了它，但它比那更深刻。
K: We're going to go into it more deeply. A woman feels that she is not fulfilled if she does not have a baby. A man feels frustrated if he does not work, if he does not do something in life. If you want to become something and are not able to, you feel frustrated, don't you? - you feel thwarted. What is it that wants to fulfil? What is behind that desire to fulfil? Who is it that is fulfilling?
克里希那穆提：我们将更深入地进入它。 一个女人觉得：没有孩子就无法满足。 如果一个人不工作、不做点儿事，他就会感到失意。 如果你想成为什么样的人，却没有做到，你会感到失意，你不会吗？—— 你感到不畅快。 那种想得到满足的念头是什么？ 那种想要满足的欲望的背后有什么东西？是谁获得了满足？
Q: It can be an idea, for instance.
发问者：例如，它可能是一个想法。
K: I don't know, let's find out. If you say, "This is my way of dressing, this is my way of acting, I want to express myself", what is this thing that wants to express itself? When I say 'myself', what is that?
克里希那穆提：我不知道，让我们找出来。 如果你说，“这是我的穿衣方式，这是我的行动指南，我想展现我自己”， 那么这个想展现它自己的东西是什么？ 当我说“我自己”的时候，它是什么？
Q: Isn't that an image of oneself?
发问者：那不就是一个关于自己的印象吗？
K: I don't know what you mean by that - find out. Don't you feel this? Or am I talking about something irrelevant? What do you say?
克里希那穆提：我不知道你的意思 —— 找出来。 你感觉到它了吗？ 或者，我在谈论一些不相干的事情？你怎么说？
Q: At the moment I don't have a particular way of saying, "This is my way of doing anything."
发问者：目前我没有一个特别的说法：“这是我做任何事情的方式。”
K: What do you mean 'my'? What do you mean by, "It is my personal expression"? What is the thing behind it, the 'me' the 'self' that says, "I must express myself, I must fulfil"?
克里希那穆提：“我的”是指什么意思？ “它是我的个人表达”，这句话是指什么意思？ 它背后的东西是什么，这位“我”、这个“自我”、那个说：“我必须展现我自己，我必须满足”的那位？
Q: (1) Your ego?
发问者1：你的自我？
Q: (2) It can be a reaction to feeling insecure.
发问者2：它可能是对不安全的一种反应。
K: Yes.
克里希那穆提：是的。
Q: (1) And that's why it comes about, the feeling, "That's my way."
发问者1：那就是为什么会出现这种感觉，“那是我的方式。”
Q: (2) Isn't it a question not so much of 'my' way or 'your' way, but of finding out if there is a way which isn't influenced by 'you' or by 'me'?
发问者2：它不是一个关于“我的”方式或“你的”方式的问题， 而是找出是否有一种不受“你”或“我”影响的生活方式？
K: Which can only happen if I understand what is this 'me' that is always projecting itself, thrusting itself forward. What is that? "My opinion, my judgement, my way of dressing, my way of keeping order" - what is that 'me'? Are you learning about that 'me'? Do you want to find out what that 'me' is? There are two different things: to learn about the 'me', and to find out if there is a 'me' at all.
克里希那穆提：要找出这种方式，只有当我理解这位“我”是什么， 那位总是在投射、总是在用锥子捅它自己往前冲的“我”，才会出现。 那是什么？ “我的观点、我的判断、我的着装方式、我维持秩序的方式” —— 那个‘我’是什么？ 你在学习那个“我”吗？你想找出那个“我”是什么吗？ 有两种不同的事情：学习这位“我”，和找出是不是有这位“我”。
Q: To learn about the 'me' first you have to make the 'me' exist.
发问者：要首先学习这位“我”，你必须首先让“我”存在。
K: That's right, to learn about it. You see the... When I said there is a 'me', I've already stabilised it.
克里希那穆提：没错，去学习它。你看…… 当我说有一个“我”时，我已经固化了它。
Q: (1) The purpose is to learn about it.
发问者1：这种意图是学习它。
Q: (2) I know that it's there.
发问者2：我知道它在那里。
K: Which means that I have a feeling it is there; all I have to do is to learn about it - its expressions, its way of acting, its resistances, its appetites and so on.
克里希那穆提：这意味着我有一种感觉，觉得它就在那儿； 我所要做的就是学习它 —— 它的表现、它的行动方式、它的抵抗、它的品味，等等。
Q: One feels that this is the situation one is in, that one feels the 'me' does exist. Although I can say verbally that by saying this I am setting up the image of 'me', deeply within the feeling seems to make this 'me' there, so perhaps I can watch those feelings.
发问者：一个人觉得这就是一个人所处的境况，一个人感觉到“我”确实存在。 虽然我能这么说，而这个说法，是在建立“我”的印象上， 在这个说法的深处，有一种感受，似乎是这种感受制造出了这位“我”，因此，也许我可以观察那些感受。
K: We are trying to find out if there is a 'me', a 'self' which has to be studied. Or is there no 'me' and therefore, when I say "I want to express myself," what does that mean? Don't you feel the 'me' is important? What is that 'me' which says, - "I must fulfil, I must become, I must be this, that's my taste, I can go my way?"
克里希那穆提：我们试图找出是否有一个“我”，一个必须被加以研究的“我”； 或者不存在“我”，因此，当我说“我想展现我自己”时，那是什么意思？ 你不觉得这位“我”很重要吗？那位说出这些话 —— “我必须满足，我必须达成，我必须这样，那是我的品味，我要走我的路”？
Q: Is it something I cling to?
发问者：它是我所依靠的东西吗？
K: You understand, Sarah, that when you say 'me' you have already established it, haven't you? And you resist anything that opposes that.
克里希那穆提：你理解那，莎拉，当你说“我”的时候，你就创建了它，你没有吗？ 而且，你抵抗任何反对它的东西。
Q: Why? Why should we resist?
发问者：为什么？我们为什么要抵抗？
K: I have established 'me' first. 'I' am this, 'I' am my prejudice, 'I' want to dress in a particular way, 'I' think this is the right way to have a tidy room.
克里希那穆提：首先，我创建了“我”。 “我”就是这样，“我”就是我的偏见，“我”想以特别的方式打扮，“我”认为这就是一个整洁的房间的样子。
Q: It's been drummed into us in childhood.
发问者：它在童年时代就被灌输给我们。
K: That is the 'me' that must express itself, otherwise it feels thwarted. No? If I say, "Look, Sarah, I don't like the way you dress", you will tell me that is the way you want to express yourself, that is your order. Now before you state, "This is my order, my way of dressing," what is that 'me'? Have you established the 'me' that wants to express itself?
克里希那穆提：那个“我”必须展现它自己，否则会感到不畅快。不是吗？ 如果我说，“看，莎拉，我不喜欢你的穿着方式”， 你会告诉我，这就是你想要展现你自己的方式，那是你自己的秩序。 现在，在你说“这是我的秩序，我的着装方式”之前，那位“我”是什么？ 你创建出那个想要展现它自己的“我”了吗？
Q: What is the 'me' that says "You don't like the way I dress?"
发问者：那位说“你不喜欢我的穿着方式”的“我”是什么？
K: If I said to you I don't like the way you dress, what does that mean?
克里希那穆提：如果我对你说“我不喜欢你的穿着方式”，那是什么意思？
Q: It means you are expressing an opinion.
发问者：它意味着你在表述一个观点。
K: Am I prejudiced? What is it that says, "I don't like the way you dress?" And you reply, "That's my taste." There are two opposing statements. Who is it in you that says that's the way you want to dress? And who is the 'me' that says, "That is not the way to dress"? Let's find out. Is it because I have a concept, an image, that miniskirts are much better? And you say, "I don't like them", you having your own idea of a long dress; and you say, "That's the way to dress." We have to live together in the same house, we come into contact. What do we do?
克里希那穆提：我有偏见吗？那样说是什么意思？我说“我不喜欢你的穿着方式” 你回答说：“那是我的品味。” 这里有两种对立的陈述。 是谁在说“那就是你想要的着装方式”？ 那个说“不要这么穿”的“我”又是谁？让我们找出来。 是不是因为我有一个概念，一个印象：“迷你裙要好得多”？ 而你说，“我不喜欢它们”，你对长裙有自己独特的想法； 你说，“就那么穿。” 我们要住在同一个房间，我们刚有些接触。我们能做什么？
Q: I cling to the ideas which I have...
发问者：我坚持我所拥有的想法……
K: Don't theorize, then we are lost. See actually what the facts are, then we can deal with it. If you are speculating about it, then your speculation is as good as mine. What are these two: your 'I' and my 'I'?
克里希那穆提：不要理论化，那么，我们就迷路了。 真实地看事实是什么，那么我们就能处理它。 如果你去推测它，那么你的推测和我的推测都一样好。 这两个推测者是什么：你的“我”和我的“我”？
Q: We both have a bundle of memories and experiences, we have developed certain preferences.
发问者：我们都有一堆记忆和体验，我们已经形成了某些偏好。
K: That 'me' and that 'you' who assert themselves, are they prejudiced?
克里希那穆提：那个坚持自己主张的“我”和“你”，他们都有偏见吗？
Q: Yes.
发问者：是的。
K: Why do you say they are prejudiced?
克里希那穆提：你为什么说他们有偏见？
Q: Let's investigate it.
发问者：让我们调查一下。
K: Let's probe into it. Do I react to my conditioning and you to your conditioning? You like long dresses and I don't like them, or whatever it is.
克里希那穆提：让我们试着进入它。我在根据我的条件限制做出反应，而你在根据你的条件限制做出反应吗？ 你喜欢长裙，而我不喜欢它们，不管它是什么。
Q: The way you dress is an expression of your conditioning.
发问者：你的穿着方式是你的条件限制的一种展现。
K: Is it my prejudice or is it yours? Two prejudices coming into contact with each other explode - they have to do something. Why do I give such importance to the way you dress? And why do you resist what I say? Why don't you say, "What does it matter"? Why don't we do this? Why this resistance?
克里希那穆提：它是我的偏见还是你的偏见？ 两个相互接触的偏见爆发了 —— 他们必须做点什么。 为什么我会注重你的着装方式？你为什么抗拒我说的话？ 你为什么不说，“这有什么不好吗？” 我们为什么不这样做？为什么会有这种抵抗？
Q: I think part of the resistance is to the way it is pointed out.
发问者：我认为一部分的抗拒是，它被指出的方式。
K: I may point it out crudely, or I may point it out more gently, but why do you resist?
克里希那穆提：我可能会粗暴地指出，或者我可能会更温和地指出，但你为什么要抗拒？
Q: Because if somebody hits you in a forceful way, then you react automatically. But if they say, "Look, let's go into it, see why you dress the way you do," then you discuss it, as we are doing now.
发问者：因为如果有人以粗暴的方式打你，那么你会自动地做出反应。 但是如果他们说，“看，让我们进入它，看看你为什么这样穿”， 那么，你讨论它，就像我们现在所做的一样。
K: We are doing it - but at the end of it, let's wipe it out, not just theorize day after day and talk about clothes - who cares!
克里希那穆提：我们正在这样做 —— 但在它结束时，让我们消灭它，而不是日复一日地理论化和谈论衣服 —— 谁在乎！
Q: Didn't we make a distinction the other day between prejudice and preference? You said the other day...
发问者：前几天我们不是区分了偏见和喜好了吗？前几天你说...
K: I don't care what I said the other day - you have to find out. It's not important what I said - what do you say? I'm asking you, Sarah, please tell me when I say this about your dress - is it a prejudice on my part? And when you say, "This is my way of dressing," is that your prejudice?
克里希那穆提：我不在乎前几天我说了什么 —— 你必须找出来。我说了什么并不重要 —— 你在说什么？ 我问你，莎拉，当我评论你的衣服时，请告诉我 —— 它是我的偏见吗？ 当你说，“这是我的穿衣方式”，那是你的偏见吗？
Q: Yes.
发问者：是的。
K: Now what do you mean by prejudice - don't repeat what I said.
克里希那穆提：现在，你所说的“偏见”是什么意思 —— 不要重复我说的话。
Q: When you have an idea about something and you're not willing to change it.
发问者：当你对某个东西有一个想法，而你不愿意改变它。
K: Why aren't you willing to change it? Who is the person who asserts this?
克里希那穆提：你为什么不愿意改变它？作出这个断言的人是谁？
Q: It's my 'me'.
发问者：它是我的“我”。
K: What is that 'me'?
克里希那穆提：那个“我”是什么？
Q: (1) It's part of myself, my conditioning, it's something I depend upon because without it, what am I?
发问者1：它是我自己的一部分，是我的局限， 它是我依赖的东西，因为没有它，我是什么？
Q: (2) Are you something?
发问者2：你是某种东西吗？
K: Isn't it part of your education to understand yourself?
克里希那穆提：理解你自己，不正是你教育的一部分吗？
Q: You asked if we care - but we do care, and I think it's very important...
发问者：你问我们是否在意 —— 但我们确实在意，而且我认为它非常重要……
K: I am sorry. You all apparently do care tremendously about the way you dress.
克里希那穆提：对不起。你显然都非常在意你自己的着装方式。
Q: But why shouldn't we?
发问者：但为什么我们不应该？
K: I'm not saying you shouldn't. You do care, you give it a certain importance, that's all. Now what is the problem?
克里希那穆提：我不是说你不应该。 你确实很在意，你赋予它某种重要性，就是那样。现在，问题是什么？
Q: The problem seems to me that we have to learn how not to react even if someone is prejudiced. We can't perhaps do very much about this prejudice, but supposing you say to me, "I don't like the way you dress", you may or you may not be prejudiced. But that is not what I have to go into, it's what I do about it.
发问者：在我看来，问题是我们必须学习，即使别人有偏见的时候，如何做到不产生反应？ 对于这种偏见，我们也许不能做什么， 但假设你对我说，“我不喜欢你的穿着方式”，你可能有偏见，或者没有偏见。 但这不是我必须深入的，而是我要怎么做。
K: What will you do? We live in the same house.
克里希那穆提：你会怎么做？我们住在同一间房子里。
Q: If I don't understand deeply why I shouldn't dress that way, if I just change, then it's hypocritical.
发问者：如果我不理解为什么我不应该那样穿，如果我只是改变，那就是虚伪。
K: Yes.
克里希那穆提：是的。
Q: And I don't want to be hypocritical. So it seems I am left with nothing to do.
发问者：我不想虚伪。因此，我似乎无事可做。
K: Why do we have such strong opinions about such trivial things?
克里希那穆提：为什么我们对这些琐碎的事情有如此强烈的观点？
Q: (1) I don't think it's the dress that bothers us - it's being hypocritical and taking somebody else's ideas or opinions for our own.
发问者1：我认为困扰我们的不是穿着方式 —— 它是一种虚伪的东西，是把虚幻的、把别人的想法或意见放到了我们自己身上。
Q: (2) Why do you have an opinion anyway? It's me versus your opinion.
发问者2：你为什么有那个观点？它正是我所反对的观点。
K: Go on, Jimmy, help us out - don't just all sit quietly! She says, "I don't want to be hypocritical," that is, say one thing and do another.
克里希那穆提：继续，吉米，帮帮我们 —— 不要只是安静地坐着！ 她说，“我不想虚伪”，也就是，说一套做一套。
Q: (1) But why is there the need to be hypocritical?
发问者1：但为什么需要装虚伪？
Q: (2) We have to be sensitive to the changing situation, but there is no set code, no set style of dress.
发问者2：我们必须对不断变化的情况保持敏感， 而没有固定的规则，没有固定的着装风格。
Q: (3) But your sensitivity is not the same as somebody else's.
发问者3：但你的敏感度与其他人的不同。
Q: (4) It's not my sensitivity or your sensitivity, there is such a thing as sensitivity.
发问者4：它不是我的敏感或你的敏感，而是敏感本身之类的东西。
Q: (5) That's what we're trying to find out, is there such a thing and how can you get to that thing?
发问者5：那就是我们试图找出的，是否有这样的东西，你怎么找到那个东西？
K: Is that your problem?
克里希那穆提：那是你的问题吗？
Q: Yes, yes.
发问者：是的，是的。
K: How to be sensitive, not to any particular problem or to your own particular desires, but to be sensitive all around. What prevents you from being sensitive? - sensitive to my feelings, to somebody else's feelings, somebody's ideas, opinions, prejudices.
克里希那穆提：如何变得敏感， 不是对任何特定的问题或你拥有的特殊的欲望，而是对周围的事物都敏感。 是什么阻止你的敏感？ —— 对我的感受、别人的感受、别人的想法、意见、偏见的敏感。
Q: This is not an objective situation, we all have a different idea of what to wear, you couldn't be equally sensitive to all the ideas...
发问者：这不是一个客观情况， 我们对穿什么都有不同的想法，你不可能对所有的想法都同样敏感……
K: So you have to be sensitive all round, objectively and inwardly. Why aren't you? Is it because you don't want to be hurt, therefore you'll resist, you'll build a wall round yourself and at the same time say, "I want to be sensitive." Is that it?
克里希那穆提：所以你必须对外在的和内在的一切有全面地敏感。你为什么不这样做？ 是不是因为你不想被伤害，所以你会去抗拒， 你会为自己筑起一道墙，同时说“我要敏感”。是那样吗？
Q: It's more a question of wanting to be able to function.
发问者：它更像是一个如何去运作的问题。
K: You can function very well if you are extremely sensitive. That's the only way to function. You are very quick then, adjusting, not saying, "This is right, I'm going to stick to it." To every situation you are adjusting quickly - that's part of sensitivity, isn't it? Not your sensitivity, as she points out, or my sensitivity, which is absurd.
克里希那穆提：如果你非常敏感，你就能很好地运作。只有这样才能发挥作用。 你很快地调整，而不是说，“这是对的，我会坚持它。” 对于每种情况，您在快速地调整 —— 那是敏感的一部分，不是吗？ 不是你的敏感，正如她所指出的，也不是我的敏感，这也是荒谬的说法。
Q: Also, isn't there a larger dimension to the sensitivity? In other words, I can be sensitive to what you say, but there's a larger thing.
发问者：另外，不是还有更大范围的敏感吗？ 换句话说，我可以对你说的话很敏感，还能对更大范围的事物敏感。
K: Of course, that's what I'm implying.
克里希那穆提：当然，那就是我在暗示的。
Q: We live in a certain place and time and so forth, it wouldn't be appropriate to wear a suit of armour. There's a lot to be sensitive to. We tend to be sensitive about ourselves and to nothing else.
发问者：我们生活在某个空间和时间内，穿一套盔甲是不合适的。 有很多事情需要敏感。我们趋向于对我们自己敏感，而不会对其他任何事物敏感。
K: Let's include all that. Why aren't we sensitive? What is preventing us from being sensitive all round? - to you, to me, objectively and subjectively.
克里希那穆提：让我们包括所有那些。为什么我们不敏感？ 是什么阻止了我们完全地敏感 —— 在客观和主观层面上，对你、对我的敏感？
Q: It is preventing us getting to know each other.
发问者：它阻碍了我们相互了解。
K: He said that the fear of being hurt makes us insensitive, so we withdraw. Is that one of the major reasons for insensitivity? You have established the image of yourself which says, "I must dress that way, it doesn't matter what the situation is, because I'm used to that way."
克里希那穆提：他说，害怕受到伤害让我们变得不敏感，所以我们退缩了。 那是不敏感的主要原因之一吗？你已经建立了你自己的印象， “我必须这样穿，无论情况如何，因为我已经习惯了那种方式。”
Q: We're so concerned with our place in the whole that we don't look at the whole at all.
发问者：我们如此看重我们在整体中的位置，以至于我们根本不看整体。
K: That's it. Are you afraid of being hurt? Now what is the thing that is going to be hurt? Why don't you want to be hurt, what is it that fears being hurt?
克里希那穆提：那就是它。你害怕受到伤害吗？ 现在，会受到伤害的东西是什么？为什么你不想被伤害，怕被伤害的那个东西是什么？
Q: The ego, the self.
发问者：这个自我，这位我。
K: The ego? What is that ego? What is it that says - "I don't want to be hurt."
克里希那穆提：自我？那自我是什么？是什么在说 —— “我不想受到伤害。”
Q: It's all your past.
发问者：它是你过去的一切。
K: Go step by step, otherwise you'll miss it. When you say, "I don't want to be hurt," why are you saying that? Because you've already been hurt? Is that it? You've felt the pain of it and you say, "I don't want to be hurt again." You shrink back, you have been hurt in childhood and you say, "I don't want to be hurt." Now when you say that, it means doesn't it? - that you've already been hurt, and you remember the past hurt and you don't want that to be repeated. Watch it: "I don't want to be hurt." 'I' being the memory of the past hurt, which says, "I must be careful". So what happens when you say, I don t want to be hurt"! What is the next step?
克里希那穆提：一步一步来，否则你会错过它。 当你说，“我不想被伤害”，你为什么要这么说？ 是因为你受伤了吗？是那样吗？ 你已经感受到了它的痛苦，你说，“我不想再一次地受到伤害。” 你退缩了，你小时候受过伤，你说：“我不想受伤。” 现在，当你这么说时，不正是这个意思吗？ —— 你已经受伤了，你记得过去的伤害，你不想重蹈覆辙。 看着它：“我不想受到伤害。” '我'是对过去伤害的记忆， 它在说，“我必须小心”。 那么，当你说，“我不想被伤害”，在发生什么！下一步是什么？
Q: You've got a resistance.
发问者：你产生了一种抗拒。
K: You resist, don't you? Then what happens? Watch it, don't speak, see what happens. You build a wall round yourself in order not to be hurt. Then what happens?
克里希那穆提：你反抗，你没有吗？然后会发生什么？ 看它，别说话，看看在发生什么。 你在你自己的周围筑起一道墙，以免受到伤害。然后，在发生什么？
Q: You get more hurt.
发问者：你受到更多伤害。
K: I'm not going to help you with this. Go on, Jimmy. When I build a wall round myself in order not to be hurt, what takes place? You do the same and I do the same, each one is doing this. What happens?
克里希那穆提：我不会帮你解决这个问题。继续，吉米。 当我在自己周围筑起一堵墙，以免不被伤害，发生了什么？ 你这样做，我也这样做，每个人都这样做。发生什么了？
Q: There is no communication.
发问者：没有交流。
K: No communication? And you're trying to do things together, trying to cooperate, each building a wall around himself or herself. That is the basis of hypocrisy. When you say, "I don't want to be a hypocrite", you are really saying, "Leave me alone, don't hurt me." You are sensitive in your way, I am sensitive in my way - which has no meaning.
克里希那穆提：没有交流？ 而你们在尝试一起做事、合作，每个人都在自己周围筑起一道墙。 那就是虚伪的基础。 当你说，“我不想成为一个伪君子”，你实际上在说，“离我远点儿，不要伤害我。” 你有你的敏感方式，我有我的敏感方式 —— 毫无意义。
Q: I want to understand, I don't just want to accept something I'm told.
发问者：我想去理解，我不是去接受某人告诉我的事情。
K: I see that I don't want to be hurt and I build a wall around myself, and you do the same - and as long as this wall exists there is no cooperation. I talk about cooperation and when I say to you, "Please, this occasion doesn't demand that kind of dress," you say, "That's prejudice."
克里希那穆提：我看见，我不想受到伤害，我在自己的周围筑起一道墙，你也这样做 —— 只要这堵墙存在，就不存在合作。 我谈到了合作，当我对你说，“拜托，这个场合不需要那种衣服”， 你说，“那是偏见。”
Q: What is it in an occasion that dictates a specific dress?
发问者： 什么场合决定了特定的着装？
K: Leave the dress for the moment. You have a wall around yourself which is opinion, meaning, "I am this, don't come beyond" - you are resisting because you don't want to be hurt. So you build a wall of opinion, of assertion, of aggression. You are not pliable, there is not a free play in it.
克里希那穆提：暂时离开这件衣服。 在你自己的周围，有一堵墙，也就是观念，意义，“我就是这样子的，不要越界” —— 你在抗拒，因为你不想受到伤害。 所以，你建立了一道由观念、结论和侵略组成的墙。 你不是柔软的，里面没有周旋的余地。
Q: (1) There are two things: the person who is expressing his own opinion, and there is an objective situation. Those two things get so mixed up. When you're saying the situation here is dictating something, it comes from what you're doing here, what you learn, how you behave.
发问者1：这里有两个事物：一个是发表他自己观点的人，一个是客观情况。 这两者太混乱了。当你说，这里的情况决定了某些事情时， 它来自于你在这里做什么、你学到了什么、你的行为方式。
Q: (2) How can you separate what is our own conditioned valuation of the situation and the actual situation. We haven't understood what the situation is here at Brockwood.
发问者2：你如何区分我们对实际情况的带有局限的评估和实际情况本身。 我们还不理解这里的情况。
K: Actually it's very simple. The situation is, each of us is protecting himself against the other, that's all. Right?
克里希那穆提：实际上，它很简单。 这里的实际情况就是，我们每个人都在保护自己，以免受到别人的侵害，仅此而已。对吗？
Q: I would say that's more important than all these other questions we've been raising.
发问者：我会说，那比我们提出的所有其他问题更重要。
K: The other things are all so unimportant. When we understand this, everything else will fall into place. We have been raised in this modern world to do and think what we want. And we have developed this antagonism to anybody who says, "This is different."
克里希那穆提：其他的事情都不那么重要。 当我们理解了这一点，其他一切都会水到渠成。 在这个提倡“做你想做的”的现代世界中，我们被抚养长大。 我们已经对任何一个说“不”的人产生了这种敌意。
Q: I don't think we have been raised to do what we want. I think ever since we've been growing up, people have said, "Don't do this."
发问者：我不认为我们被抚养长大是为了去做我们想做的事。 我认为在我们成长的阶段，人们就在说，“不要这样做。”
K: And then you resist that. And you break away from that and then you develop your own resistances. Behind all this - I'm just suggesting, I'm not saying it is so - there is this act of resistance; you in your way, I in my way, each person has the feeling, "I must protect myself" - justly or unjustly. Then what shall we do? Living in a small community of this kind, if each one has a wall of resistance around him, how shall we work together? You know, this is an everlasting problem, not just here in Brockwood.
克里希那穆提：然后，你就对那产生了反抗。你打破它，然后你发展出自己的抵抗力。 在这一切的背后 —— 我只是建议，我并不是说它是事实 —— 存在一种抵抗的行动； 你在你的路上，我在我的路上，每个人都有一种感觉：“我必须保护我自己” —— 不管是正当的，还是不正当的。那么，我们该怎么办？ 生活在这样一个小社区，如果每个人身边都有一道抵抗之墙，我们该如何合作？ 你知道，这是一个永恒的问题，不仅仅是在这里。
Q: Everybody will have to drop their defences which means they will have to drop what they think about particular things in order to look at them.
发问者：每个人都将不得不放弃他们的防御， 也就是说，他们将不得不放弃他们对特殊事物的想法，以便于去观察它们。
K: Then what? I turn up in some absurd Indian clothes and you come and tell me, "Don't dress that way, it's not suitable for this occasion!" And I resist you.
克里希那穆提：然后呢？我穿着一些荒谬的印度衣服出现，你过来告诉我， “不要那样穿，不适合这个场合！” 而我抗拒你。
Q: But this is where there is a lot of energy wasted.
发问者：但这样做，会浪费大量的能量。
K: I agree with you, it's a waste of energy.
克里希那穆提：我同意你，它是在浪费能量。
Q: Sir, could we stay with the example you gave of absurd Indian dress. I can live with a person who wears Indian dress.
发问者：先生，我们可以继续你举的荒谬印度衣服的例子吗？ 我可以和一个穿着印度服饰的人住在一起。
K: Not that you can live with a person wearing absurd Indian dress, that's not the point. Am I incapable of being sensitive to the occasion which demands a different kind of dress?
克里希那穆提：不是说你可以和一个穿着荒谬印度服饰的人一起生活，那不是重点。 我是不是缺乏“对不同的场合，需要穿不同的衣服”的敏感性？
Q: Let's look at why an occasion demands a certain dress.
发问者：让我们看看为什么一个场合需要特定的着装。
K: I'll show you. Have you seen Indian ladies wearing saris? The other day in London I saw an Indian lady wearing a long sari, in India that's the fashion. She was sweeping the street with her sari, it was getting filthy, but she was totally unaware of it. What would you call that?
克里希那穆提：我会展示给你。你见过穿纱丽的印度女人吗？ 前几天在伦敦，我看到一位印度女士穿着长纱丽，在印度这就是时尚。 她穿的纱丽正在扫大街，它越来越脏， 但她完全没有觉察到。你会怎么评论它？
Q: It's appropriate to her.
发问者：这对她来说是合适的。
K: No, you don't get the point. She was totally unaware of what she was doing - that the long Indian dress was sweeping the street. She was unaware of it.
克里希那穆提：不，你没有抓住要点。她完全不知道自己在做什么 —— 印度长裙正在扫大街。她对此一无所知。
Q: But then, it's just as dirty in Bombay.
发问者：但是，孟买也一样脏。
K: (Laughter.) You are missing the point: She was totally unaware of it.
克里希那穆提：（笑声）你没有抓住重点：她完全没有意识到它。
Q: Well, that's her problem.
发问者：嗯，那是她的问题。
K: Please...
克里希那穆提：请……
Q: Could I clarify whether the problem is that her dress was long and getting dirty, or whether it is the fact that she was wearing Indian dress in England?
发问者：我能否澄清这个问题，是她的裙子太长而且变脏了， 还是她在英国穿着印度裙子的事实？
K: No, it's not that. I'm pointing out the insensitivity of a person who is unaware of what she is doing. That's all.
克里希那穆提：不，不是那个。 我指出的是一个人缺乏敏感，没有觉察到她自己在做什么。就这些。
Q: But if you are sensitive to the situation...
发问者：但是如果你对这个情况敏感……
K: That's all I'm saying. My point is, if that Indian woman in London was aware of what she was doing, she would obviously lift up her sari.
克里希那穆提：那就是我要说的。我的观点是， 如果伦敦的那个印度女人知道她在做什么，她显然会举起她的纱丽。
Q: Because she wouldn't want to waste her energy washing it.
发问者：因为她不想浪费精力洗它。
K: Not only that, no, much more. The total unawareness of the occasion.
克里希那穆提：不仅如此，不，还有更多。完全没有觉察到这个场合。
Q: It's a question of being asleep or being awake.
发问者：它是一个睡着还是醒着的问题。
K: Yes. It's not, "Why do you care how she walks or what she does, it's her way of doing it," as you said. I am asking, are you aware of what you are doing - not of the occasion, not of what you wear. But are you aware why you dress the way you do? Why do you feel it's of tremendous importance that you do things the way you do? That's the problem, isn't it?
克里希那穆提：是的。不是要去关心她走路或者在做什么，而是她做事的方式，正如你所说的。 我在问，你是否觉察到你在做什么 —— 而不是场合、不是你穿什么。 而是你觉察到你为什么穿成这样吗？ 为什么你觉得按照自己的方式做事非常重要？那就是问题所在，不是吗？
Q: You seem to imply that once I'm aware of the way I'm dressing, I'll change.
发问者：你似乎在暗示，一旦我觉察到我的穿着方式，我就会改变。
K: No, I did not say that. You may or may not change, it's up to you. But I am suggesting - are you aware of it? And being aware, see all the implications - not just being aware that you've got trousers on. Are you aware when I say to you, "Sit properly with a straight back?" I'll tell you something very interesting. Brahmin boys in India up to the age of seven can do what they like, play around. At the age of seven they go through a certain ceremony and during that ceremony they are taught to sit completely still, with closed eyes. After the ceremony you become a real Brahmin and all the rest of it. From that day on you must sit properly, meditate, you are drilled. I'm saying that to show you how habits are built in, conditioned, and most of us are that way. To break down that conditioning you have to be aware of what you're doing. That's all.
克里希那穆提：不，我没有那样说。你可能会改变，或者不会改变，它取决于你。 但我在建议 —— 你是否觉察到了它？并保持清醒，看到这所有的含义 —— 不仅仅是觉察到你的穿着。 当我对你说：“坐好，背部挺直”，你觉察到了吗？ 我要告诉你一件非常有趣的事情。印度的婆罗门男孩直到七岁都可以做他们喜欢做的事情，玩耍。 在七岁时，他们会经历某种仪式，在那个仪式中，他们被教导要闭着眼睛，完全安静地坐着。 仪式结束后，您将成为真正的婆罗门。 从那天起，你必须坐好、冥想、训练。 我这么说是为了向你展示习惯是如何建立和形成的，而我们大多数人都是这样。 要打破这种限制，你必须觉察到你在做什么。就那些。
Q: Breaking down good habits as well as bad?
发问者：打破好习惯和坏习惯？
K: Everything. Habit means conditioning, a mechanical repetition, which is obviously not being sensitive. Now are you aware of what you're doing? When I say to you, "Please dress differently," are you taking my statement to help to be aware and therefore sensitive, or do you resist it? What do you do? To be sensitive implies learning. I say to you, "Jimmy, don't dress that way." Will you treat it as a help to be aware, or do you resist? Or do you feel you're being hurt, "I'm as good as you are, it's only your opinion," - all the battle of words and nonsense?
克里希那穆提：一切。习惯意味着局限，一种机械的重复，这显然是不敏感的。 现在，你可觉察到你在做什么？ 当我对你说，“请穿不同的衣服”， 你是在用我的话来帮助你增强觉察，并因此变得敏感，还是在抗拒它？ 你在做什么？保持敏感意味着学习。我对你说，“吉米，别穿成那样。” 你把它当作一种帮助而去觉察，还是去抗拒？ 或者你觉得你受伤了，“我和你一样好，它只是你的个人意见，” —— 开启言语上的争吵和废话？
Q: So where do we react wrongly?
发问者：那么，我们在哪里做出了这种错误的反应？
K: You have to take into consideration conformity, imitation, fear of being hurt, trying to find your own freedom apart from mine. Dominic said, "I don't want you to tread on my toes, I don't want to tread on yours." Are you aware of the implications of all that's going on? If you're not, you become a hypocrite. Do you know you're hurt and that you don't want to be hurt any more?
克里希那穆提：你必须考虑到遵从、模仿、害怕受到伤害， 试图通过分开我而去找到你自己的自由。 多米尼克说：“我不想让你们踩到我的脚趾，我也不想踩到你们的。” 你觉察到那一切的影响吗？ 如果你没有，你就会成为一个伪君子。 你知道你受了伤，你不想再受任何伤害吗？
Q: If you are giving your full attention to the moment, you haven't got time to remember that you've been hurt.
发问者：如果你完全地注意这一刻，你就没有时间去记住你受到过的伤害。
K: No, but most of us don't know how to give complete attention to the moment. All that we remember is that we've been hurt and don't want to be hurt again. Have you got such hurts in you? What are you going to do about them. See what happens when you've got these hurts, they respond much more quickly than your reason does. Those hurts spring forward much quicker than, "Let's find out, let's learn." So you have to tackle that first. What will you do with those hurts?
克里希那穆提：不，但我们大多数人不知道如何完全地留意此刻。 我们只记得我们已经受伤，不想再受伤。你有过这样的伤痛吗？ 你打算怎么处理它们。 当你受到这些伤害，看看在发生什么，它们的反应比你的理性要快得多。 那些伤害比“让我们找出来，让我们学习”来得更快。 因此，你必须先解决那。你会如何处理那些伤害？
Q: But those hurts are past.
发问者：但是那些伤害已经过去了。
K: Are they past and dead?
克里希那穆提：它们过去了吗，死了吗？
Q: That's what is reacting.
发问者：那就是反应。
K: Yes.
克里希那穆提：是的。
Q: It doesn't have to react.
发问者：它不必作出反应。
K: Of course it doesn't have to, but it does. If you understand the whole mechanism of hurt, you will never be hurt again. Do you know what the mechanism of being hurt means? Find out. We have all been hurt some way or another. First, why have we been hurt?
克里希那穆提：当然没有必要，但它确实作出了反应。 如果您理解伤害的整个机制，您将永远不会再受到伤害。 你知道受伤的机制是什么吗？找出来。 我们都以某种方式受到过伤害。首先，我们为什么会受伤？
Q: Sometimes it's because of our pride, our illusions.
发问者：有时，它是因为我们的骄傲，我们的幻想。
K: Why are you proud? What are you proud about? Did you write a book? Or can you play tennis better, run faster than somebody else? We make these statements and say, "Yes, I'm proud." What does it mean? Because you're so nice-looking, so bright? And somebody comes along who is still brighter than you and you're hurt - you're jealous, you're angry, you're bitter, which is part of being hurt. So what will you do with those hurts which you have accumulated, which say, "I must not be hurt any more?" What are you going to do, knowing that the hurts are going to respond so quickly?
克里希那穆提：你为什么骄傲？你有什么好骄傲的？你写过书吗？ 或者你网球打得更好，跑得比别人快吗？ 我们发表这些声明并说：“是的，我骄傲。” 它是什么意思？ 因为你长得很好看，很聪明吗？ 一个比你更聪明的人出现了，你受伤了 —— 你嫉妒，你生气，你很痛苦，这就是受伤的一部分。 因此，你怎么处理那些被你累积出来的、说着“我不能再受伤”的伤害， 当你知道伤害会如此迅速地反应的时候，你会怎么做？
Q: I would say that hurts are really disillusionments and disillusionments are really learning, so they are not hurts.
发问者：我会说伤害真的是幻灭， 幻灭就是真正的学习，所以它们不是伤害。
K: Yes, but that is just an explanation. The fact remains that you are hurt. I put my trust in you and suddenly I find my trust has been betrayed: I get hurt. What is behind this hurt?
克里希那穆提：是的，但那只是一种解释。这个你受伤了的事实还在。 我信任你，突然间，我发现我的信任被辜负了：我受伤了。这伤害的背后是什么？
Q: I am sensitive.
发问者：我很敏感。
K: Is that it? Can sensitivity ever get hurt?
克里希那穆提：是那吗？敏感性可曾受到过伤害？
Q: (1) Only the 'I' in the middle of it.
发问者1：只有夹在中间的“我”。
Q: (2) The difficulty is really openness.
发问者2：困难在于真正地敞开。
K: Exactly. And sensitivity is intelligence. So when you say, "I am hurt", who is the 'I' that is asserting this all the time? Do you want to learn about that 'I'? Or do you say, "What is there to learn about the 'I'?" Do you see the difference?
克里希那穆提：没错。而敏感性就是智慧。 因此，当您说“我受伤了”，一直在断言的那位“我”是谁？ 你想学习那位“我”吗？ 或者你说，“关于‘我’有什么可学的？” 你看得到这种差别吗？
Q: Can you go into it a bit more?
发问者：你能再深入一点吗？
K: I am hurt by various people for various reasons. So I build a wall of resistance and you come along and say, "Learn about it", "Look at it". Am I looking at the 'me' that is being hurt, the memories, which means another 'I' that is looking at it, a superior 'I' which says, "I must learn about the lower 'I'." Do you see the falseness of this? You have established the 'I' which has to be learnt about. But there is no such thing as 'I' - it's just a series of memories. Actually, there is no 'I' except your memories of being hurt. But you have said, "That is the 'I' about which I'm going to learn." What is there to learn about the 'I'? - it's just a bundle of memories, there's nothing to learn about it.
克里希那穆提：我受伤，由于不同的原因受到各种各样的人的伤害。 所以我建立了一道抵抗之墙，你走过来说，“学习它”，“看它”。 我是否在看那个受到伤害的“我”，那个记忆， 也就是说：另一个“我”正在看它，一个高级的“我”在说，“我必须学习那个低级的“我”。 你看出这其中的虚妄了吗？ 你已经创建了的那个必须学习的对象：“我”。 但是，不存在“我”这个东西 —— 它只是一串记忆。 实际上，除了你受伤的记忆，不存在“我”。 但是你说，“那就是我将要去学习的‘我’。” 关于这位“我”，有什么可以学习的？ —— 那只是一堆记忆，没有东西可学。
Q: You mean there's no self-knowledge?
发问者：你的意思是没有自我认识吗？
K: There is plenty, that's what we're doing - look how far we have moved in self-knowledge.
克里希那穆提：有很多，那就是我们正在做的 —— 看看我们在探索自我认识的路上走了多远。
Q: If we are talking and I see something clearly, at that moment it's all right. Then afterwards the thing that I've seen becomes knowledge and I think I'm still seeing clearly. And somebody comes along and says to me, "You're not seeing clearly," and I say, "I am", because I remember having seen clearly. Perhaps the reason I want to see clearly in the first place is just to build up this pleasurable feeling.
发问者：如果我们正在交谈，而我清晰地看到某些东西，那一刻，它就对了。 然后，我所看到的东西就变成了知识，我认为，我依然在清晰地看。 有人走过来对我说，“你没看清，” 我说，“我看清了”，因为我记得我曾经看过。 或许，在一开始，“我想看清楚”的这个想法，就是建立在这种愉悦的感觉上。
K: Obviously. You've been hurt and you don't want to be hurt any more, and so you resist. What will you do? - knowing that prevents affection, love, every form of cooperation, every form of communication, of relationship. What will you do with that thing?
克里希那穆提：当然了。你被伤害了，你不想再被伤害，所以你抵抗。 你会怎么做？—— 知道那会阻止感情、爱、每种形式的合作、每种形式的交流、关系。 你会对那个东西做什么？
Q: You have to find a way of living where you are not building an image of yourself all the time.
发问者：你必须找到一种生活方式， 在这种方式下，你总是不去创建你自己的印象。
K: First of all, you have built an image; the next step is to prevent adding to it. There are two problems, aren't there? You have to prevent adding to it, as well as to cure and destroy the disease that you have. How will you set about this? I've explained it - you are not relating to it, that's all.
克里希那穆提：首先，你已经建立了一个印象；下一步是防止它的扩张。 这里有两个问题，不是吗？你必须防止它的扩张， 同时治愈和摧毁你所患的疾病。 你将如何着手？我已经解释了它 —— 你与它无关，就是那样。
Q: You have to be highly sensitive all the time.
发问者：你必须一直保持高度地敏感。
K: Which means what?
克里希那穆提：那意味着什么？
Q: See exactly what the influences are...
发问者：确切地看到这种影响……
K: No.
克里希那穆提：不。
Q: Stop the hurt.
发问者：停止这种伤害。
K: No. Look, be aware of what you are doing, of what you are thinking, feeling. And if I tell you to dress differently, don't resist and fight me but use my words to help you to be aware. You have been hurt, you have built a wall of resistance and I say to you, "Sarah, don't do that because you'll prevent every form of relationship, you'll be miserable all your life." Do you receive what I say to you with understanding, because it will help you to break down the wall? Or do you say, "No, who are you to tell me, it's my way of living"? Which will you do, knowing that hurts and any wall of resistance prevents all relationships? Are you aware of this actually happening now? What's going to happen if I come along and say, "Sarah, you're not so nice-looking as I thought you were." Are you resisting?
克里希那穆提：不。看，觉察到你在做什么，你在想什么，你的感受。 如果我告诉你穿不同的衣服，不要抗拒，不要打我，而是用我的话来辅助你保持觉察。 你受到了伤害，你筑起了一道抵抗之墙，我对你说， “莎拉，不要那样做，因为你会阻止任何形式的关系，你一辈子都会很痛苦。” 你接受我的话并理解它了吗？因为它会帮助你拆掉这种围墙。 或者，你说，“不，你有什么资格教训我，这就是我的生活方式”？ 当你知道伤害和任何抵抗之墙都会阻碍所有的关系时，你会怎么做？ 现在，你觉察到了这些真实发生的事情了吗？ 如果我走过来说：“莎拉，你不像我想象的那么漂亮” ，你会反抗吗？
Q: No.
发问者：不会。
K: What is taking place then?
克里希那穆提：那么，在发生什么？
Q: I am learning about it and not resisting.
发问者：我正在学习它而不是抗拒。
K: Then what will you do?
克里希那穆提：那么，你会怎么做？
Q: I'll see if what you say is right.
发问者：我看看你说的对不对。
K: So what does that mean? You have no conclusion about yourself. Is that what is actually taking place?
克里希那穆提：那是什么意思？ 你对你自己没有定论。那是真实在发生的事情吗？
Q: It is right now.
发问者：它就是现在。
K: Take your hurts and go into it. Do you know what it means not to have any image about yourself?
克里希那穆提：接受你的伤害并进入它。 你可知道，没有关于你自己的任何印象意味着什么吗？
Q: We can imagine about it.
发问者：我们可以想象它。
K: I can imagine good food, but I want to taste it in full! First, we said, "We are hurt; so we see actually, intelligently, sensitively, that we have built a wall round ourselves. Therefore we are hypocritical in saying, "We will cooperate, we will do this together." That's one point. The second point is: how am I, how is this mind to prevent image-making? Because if I have any image it is going to be hurt.
克里希那穆提：我可以想象美食，但我想完整地品尝它！ 首先，我们说，“我们受伤了，所以我们真实地、智慧地、敏感地看到了它，看到我们在自己的周围筑起了一道墙。 因此我们虚伪地说，“我们会合作，我们会一起做。” 那是一点。 第二点是：我该怎么做，这个头脑怎么避免去制造印象？ 因为如果我有任何意像，它就会受到伤害。
Q: Don't we make images of others?
发问者：我们不去制造他人的印象吗？
K: Any image, whether you make it of yourself or another, is still an image. Do you see the two problems? I have memories of being hurt, which create a wall of resistance; and I see that prevents every form of relationship. The other is, can the mind not make any more images at all? What am I to do with the past hurts, with the past images? Come on, you're nearly asleep! How will you help me to get rid of my past hurts? I want your help, which means I want to establish a relationship in which this thing will be dissolved.
克里希那穆提：任何印象，无论是你自己，还是他人，都是一种印象。 看到这两个问题了吗？我有被伤害的记忆，那就产生一堵抵抗之墙； 而我看到它阻碍着各种形式的关系。 另一个是，头脑能不能不再制造任何的印象？ 过去的伤痛，过去的影子，我该怎么处理？来吧，你快睡着了！ 你将如何帮助我摆脱过去的伤害？ 我需要你的帮助，也就是说我要建立一种关系，在这关系中，将会使这些伤害消散。
Q: (1) You'll help me to learn that I am hurt and to see when my hurt is reacting. Therefore I can't just have a superficial relationship with you.
发问者1：你会帮助我去学习我受到的伤害，并看到我的伤害正在反应。 所以，我和你不再只是表面上的关系。
Q: (2) Yes, but I want to show you that I'm hurt.
发问者2：是的，但我想告诉你我受伤了。
K: I want to be free of the past hurts, because I see logically, with reason, with sanity, that if the mind keeps those hurts it has no contact with anything - I am afraid all the time. Now do I see that very clearly? Do you understand it, see it as clearly as you see this table or chair? - which means you are giving attention to what is being said and watching it in yourself. Are you doing it, or are you casually looking at it with your mind somewhere else? If you give your attention to the past hurts, they'll obviously fall away. The next thing is, how are you going to prevent further images being put together? Suppose I come along and say, "How very intelligent you are!" or "You are such an ass, you're half asleep." What will you do? How will you prevent immediately making an image when I say that?
克里希那穆提：我想摆脱过去的伤害， 因为我从逻辑上、从道理上、理智上看到，如果头脑拥有这些伤害，它就没有与任何事物接触 —— 我一直在害怕。 现在，我看清楚了吗？你理解它吗，就像看这张桌子或椅子一样清楚？ —— 也就是说，您正在注意所说的内容，你自己在观察它。 你是正在做，或者，你的头脑在游荡、偶尔看看它？ 如果你去注意过去的伤害，它们显然会消失。 接下来的事就是，你将如何防止更多的印象被聚在一起？ 假设我走过来说：“你多么地有智慧！” 或者说 “你真是个混蛋，糊涂虫。” 你会怎么做？ 当我这么说时，您将如何防止那种“快速地创建出印象”的过程？
Q: You are creating an image of me by your saying that.
发问者：你那样说的时候，就在创建我的印象。
K: Obviously I'm an ass myself when I tell you you're an ass! But I'm asking you how to prevent images being formed - whether they be pleasurable or painful.
克里希那穆提：当然，当我告诉你“你是个混蛋”的时候，显然我自己也是个混蛋！ 但我问你，如何防止印象被创建出来 —— 无论它们是愉快的，还是痛苦的。
Q: You have to be awake to the image-making process.
发问者：你必须对印象的创建过程保持清醒。
K: Help me to find out how to do it! Suppose I say to you, "What a nice person you are," that immediately brings a reaction and an image, doesn't it? Now, how will you prevent that taking place?
克里希那穆提：帮我找出怎么去做它！ 假设我对你说，“你真是个好人”，那会立即引起反应和印象，不是吗？ 现在，您将如何防止这种情况发生？
Q: The image is there already, it's been made - can we not just see that we have made this image?
发问者：印象已经在那里了，它已经被创建出来了 —— 我们能不能只去看那个我们已经制造出的这个印象吗？
K: No. There are two things involved. First the past and secondly the prevention of new images being made. Because otherwise I'm going to be hurt again and I don't want to be hurt because I want to live freely, I want to have no walls around me. So what am I to do?
克里希那穆提：不，这涉及两个东西。首先是过去的印象，其次是防止制作新的印象。 否则我会再次受到伤害，我不想受到伤害， 因为我想要自由地生活，我想要围墙消失。那我该怎么办？
Q: I want to find out why I am flattered or hurt by what you say.
发问者：我想找出“为什么我对你的话感到高兴或受到伤害”。
K: One is pleasure, the other is fear.
克里希那穆提：一个是快乐，另一个是恐惧。
Q: But what is the basis of this?
发问者：但它的基础是什么？
K: You depend on my statement, I don't know why, but you do. That's not the point. How do you prevent this image being formed? Do you want to know? What will you pay for it?
克里希那穆提：你依赖于我的表述，我不知道为什么，但你就在这样做。那不是要点。 你如何防止这种印象的形成？你想知道吗？你会为此付出什么代价？
Q: My life.
发问者：我的生命。
K: What is the price of that life? - do you know what it means, Sir? It means you really are serious not to form any image about anybody, whatever they say. Are you willing to do that? How would you do it? I'll tell you. Each give me ten dollars. (Laughter.)
克里希那穆提：那生命的代价是什么？—— 你知道它是什么意思吗，先生？ 它意味着你真的很认真，不要对任何人形成任何印象，不管他们说什么。 你愿意这样做吗？你会怎么做？我会告诉你。每人给我十块钱。（笑声。）
Q: We haven't got it.
发问者：我们还没有得到它。
K: Watch it carefully. I've said this is a very serious matter, far more important than taking a degree. You pay a great deal to get educated, but you neglect this. Without this, life has no meaning and you don't even pay a cent to find out. Which means, you don't even give that much energy to find out. Jimmy says, "I'll give my life to find out," which means he's willing to go to the very end of it to find out. I said, "Look, Jimmy, you've been hurt, and that hurt reacts in many ways. The root of that hurt is in an image you had of yourself, and that image doesn't want to get hurt." You saw the truth of that. You are willing to go into it and you saw the truth of that and you said, "I understood, I know how to deal with it. Any time it arises I'm going to be aware, pay complete attention to every moment when anybody says, 'Do this, don't do that'! " Now why don't you give the same attention when somebody says, "You're an ass?" Then you won't form an image. Only when you are inattentive, the old habit asserts itself. That means the mind says, "As long as there is any form of resistance, all relationship has no meaning." I see that very clearly. Not verbally, but I touch it, feel it. And I say, resistance exists because I don't want to be hurt. And why am I hurt? Because I have an image about myself, and I see there is not only the image about myself but there is another image in me which says, "I must get rid of this image." So there is a battle between the two images in me - the 'higher' image and the 'lower' image. Both images are created by thought. So I see all of that very clearly - clearly in the sense as I see anything dangerous. Therefore, the clarity of perception is its own action. Then I've finished with it, the past never comes again.
克里希那穆提：仔细地观察它。我说过，这是一个非常严重的问题，远比获得学位重要。 你为接受教育付出了很多，但你忽略了这个问题。 没有这个，生命就没有意义，你甚至没有花一分钱去寻找。 也就是说，你甚至不会花那么点儿力气去找出答案。 吉米说，“我会用我的生命去寻找”，这意味着他愿意寻找到底。 我说：“看，吉米，你受到了伤害，这种伤害会以多种方式做出反应。 伤害的根源在于你对自己的印象，而那个印象不想受到伤害。” 你看到了它的真实性。你愿意进入它，你看到了其中的真实性， 你说：我理解，我知道如何处理它。 在它出现的每一刻，我都会觉察，当有人说‘做这个，不要做那个！’，完全地注意它。” 现在，当有人说：“你是个混蛋” ，你为什么不给予同样的注意力？那么，你就不会形成印象。 只有当你没有注意的时候，旧的习惯才会冒出来，替你做主。 那就是说，这颗头脑会说：“只要存在任何形式的抵抗，所有的关系都没有意义。” 我看得很清楚，不是口头上的，而是我触摸到它，感受到它。 我说，抵抗的存在是因为我不想受到伤害。为什么我会受伤？ 因为我有一个关于我自己的印象，而且我看到不仅有关于我自己的印象， 我内心还有另一个印象说，“我必须摆脱这个印象。” 所以，在我的两个印象之间有一场战斗 —— “更高”的印象和“更低”的印象。 两个印象都是由思想创造的。因此我看得非常清楚 —— 如同我看到任何危险物品一样清晰。 因此，清晰的感知有它自己的行为。 那么，我就了结了它，那过去的，再也不会回来了。
Now with that same attention I'm going to see that when you flatter me, or insult me, there is no image, because I'm tremendously attentive. Will you do this? It doesn't matter what is said, I listen, I don't say, "You are prejudiced" or "You are not prejudiced." I listen because the mind wants to find out if it is creating an image out of every word, out of every contact. I'm tremendously awake, therefore I find in myself a person who is inattentive, asleep, dull, who makes images and gets hurt - not an intelligent man. Have you understood it at least verbally? Now apply it. Then you are sensitive to every occasion, it brings its own right action. And if anybody says something to you, you are tremendously attentive, not to any prejudices, but you are attentive to your conditioning. Therefore you have established a relationship with him, which is entirely different from his relationship with you. Because if he is prejudiced, you are not; if he is unaware, you are aware. Therefore you will never create an image about him. You see the difference? Will you do this? You have no idea what vitality you'll have.
现在，保持同样的注意，我将看到那： 当你奉承我或侮辱我的时候，不存在印象，因为我处于巨大的注意之中。你会这么做吗？ 说了什么都无所谓，我听，我不会说，“你有偏见”或“你没有偏见”。 我听，是因为头脑想知道它是否正在从每一个词、每一次接触中创建一个印象。 我极大地清醒，因此，我发现我自己是 一个不怎么注意、打瞌睡、迟钝的、制造出印象并受到伤害的人 —— 不是一个智慧的人。 你理解了吗，至少在口头上？现在，运用它。 然后，你对每一个场合都很敏感，它带来了它自身恰当的行为。 如果有人对你说了些什么，你会极大地注意，没有任何偏见， 而是对你的局限有极大的注意。 所以，你和他建立了关系，与他和你的关系完全的不同。 因为如果他有偏见，你没有；如果他不清醒，你清醒。 因此，你永远不会创建关于他的印象。 你看出这种区别了吗？你会这样做吗？你想象不出你会拥有怎样的活力。
Q: I think we have to help each other to do it.
发问者：我想，我们必须互相帮助才能做到。
K: That's it, that is cooperation. You are helping me and I am helping you. You are learning from me and I am learning from you not to create images.
克里希那穆提：就是那样，那就是合作。你在帮助我，我也在帮助你。 你在向我学习，我也在向你学习，而不是创造印象。