the beginning of learning 学习入门
K: We are all terribly solemn this morning, aren't we? What do you think about all day long and why do you think about these things? Are you aware of what you are thinking or does one thought precede another endlessly and one is not aware of it? If you are aware of your thoughts from what source do they arise?
克里希那穆提：今天早上我们都非常庄重，我们不是吗？ 你们整天都在想什么，你为什么想那些事情？ 您是否觉察到自己在想什么， 或者，一个想法不停地跑到另一个想法的前面，以至于一个人没有觉察到它？ 如果你觉察到你的想法的源头是什么，它们还会冒出来吗？
Q: From past experiences.
发问者：来自于过去的体验。
K: Are you quoting what I said? Be quite clear that you don't say anything that you don't know yourself, don't say it if you haven't thought it out and worked it out, otherwise you get verbal and theoretical, so be careful. First of all what do you think about all day long? Is it a secret to keep to yourself, or can you share it with another?
克里希那穆提：你是在引用我的话吗？ 务必清楚：你不要说任何一个你自己不知道的东西， 如果你没有想通和解决掉它，那就不要说它， 否则，你会把它文字化和理论化，因此，谨慎些。 首先，你成天都在想什么？ 它是你自己保守的一个秘密吗？或者，你能把它拿出来，与别人分享吗？
Q: (1) I think about lots of different things.
发问者1：我在想很多不同的事情。
Q: (2) About people at Brockwood.
发问者2：关于在这里的人们。
K: What is the central core of your thinking? You know there is peripheral thinking which is not really important, but at the centre, what is the momentum, the movement of that thinking? What is that 'me' that is so concerned with itself? I think about myself, that is the core, the heart of my thinking. And on the periphery I think about various things, the people here, the trees, the bird flying - these things don't really very much matter unless there is a crisis on the periphery and it affects the 'me' and the 'me' reacts. Now what is that centre from which you think - which is the 'me'? And why is there this continual occupation about oneself? I am not saying it is right or wrong, or "How terrible", "How childish" or "How good" - but we see that we are occupied with ourselves. Why?
克里希那穆提：你思考的核心是什么？ 你知道，有一些并不重要的外围的思考， 但是在核心，那种思考的动力和方向是什么？ 那个如此关切它自己的“我”是什么？ 我在思考我自己，那就是这个核心，我思考的这个重心。 在外围，我会考虑各种事情，这里的人、树木、飞翔的鸟 —— 这些事情实际上并不重要， 除非外围出现了危机，并且影响到了这位“我”。这位“我”就产生了反应。 现在，你思考的核心是什么 —— 这位“我”是谁？ 它为什么对这个身体进行着持续性地占据？ 我没有说它对，或者错，或者“多么可怕”、“多么幼稚”，或者“多么好” —— 而是我们要看到，我们被“我”所占据。为什么？
Q: Because we think it is important.
发问者：因为我们认为它很重要。
K: Why do you give it importance?
克里希那穆提：你为什么重视它？
Q: When you are a child you have to.
发问者：当你还是个孩子的时候，你必须这样做。
K: Why do you think about yourself so much? See what is involved in this. Thinking about oneself isn't just a very small affair, you think about yourself in relation to another with like and dislike; and you think about yourself, identifying yourself with another - right? I think about the person I have just left, or the person I think I like, or the person with whom I have quarrelled, or the person whom I love. I have identified myself with all those people, haven't I?
克里希那穆提：你为什么总是在想你自己？来看看这里面涉及到什么。 想自己不只是是一件渺小的事情， 你在想你自己与另一个人的好恶关系； 你在想你自己与另一个人产生了认同 —— 对吗？ 我在想刚才离开的那个人，或我自己喜好的那个人， 或者与我吵架的那位，我爱的那位。 在与所有那些人的关联中，我认同我自己，，我没有吗？
Q: What do you mean by 'identify'?
发问者：你所说的“认同”是什么意思？
K: I love you, I have identified myself with you. Or, I have hurt her and you identify yourself with her and get angry with me. See what has happened: I have said something to her which is harmful and unpleasant; you are her friend, you identify yourself with her and get angry with me. So that is part of the self-centred activity, isn't it? Are you sure?
克里希那穆提：我爱你，我把我自己与你相认同。 或者，我伤害了她，而你把你自己与她相认同，对我感到气愤。 看看发生了什么：我对她说了一些有害和不愉快的话； 你是她的朋友，你把你自己与她认同，对我感到气愤。 因此，那就是一种以自我为中心的活动，它不是吗？你确定吗？
Q: But isn't it the other person who is identifying with you?
发问者：但是，别人不是也在与你相认同吗？
K: Is it or is it not? Let's enquire. I like you, I am very fond of you - what does that mean? I like your looks, you are a good companion and so on. It means what?
克里希那穆提：是吗，或者不是？让我们来调查。 我喜欢你，我非常宠爱你 —— 那是什么意思？ 我喜欢你的相貌，你是一个好伙伴等等。它的意思是什么？
Q: It means you are a better companion than other people and so I like being with you.
发问者：它意味着你是一个比其他人更好的伙伴，所以我喜欢和你在一起。
K: Go a little deeper. What does it mean?
克里希那穆提：再深入一点。它是什么意思？
Q: You keep that person to yourself and exclude others.
发问者：你把那个人留在你的身边，并排斥其他人。
K: That is part of it, but go on further.
克里希那穆提：那是其中的一部分，请继续。
Q: It is pleasing to be with that person.
发问者：和那个人在一起很愉快。
K: It is pleasing to be with that person and it is not pleasing with another person. So my relationship with you is based on my pleasure. If I don't like you I say, "I'll be off!" My pleasure is my concern, as is my hurt, my anger. So self-concern isn't just thinking about myself and identifying with this or that possession, person, or book. Is that what you do all day? There is the peripheral occupation, and also I am comparing myself with you; that is going on all the time, but from a centre.
克里希那穆提：和那个人在一起很愉快，和另一个人在一起并不愉快。 所以，我和你的关系是基于我的快乐。如果我不喜欢你，我说：“我要离开！” 我的快乐才是我的关切，如同我的伤害和我的气愤。 因此，自我的关切不就是考虑我自己，并与这些或那些财物、人、或者书本产生认同吗？ 那就是你整天在做的事情吗？ 其中有对外围的占据，也有我把我自己与你作比较； 那些一直在持续，但都来自于一个核心。
Q: You read about the refugees in India and you haven't a personal relationship with them but you do identify with them.
发问者：你读到印度的难民，你和他们没有私人关系， 但你确实与他们产生了认同感。
K: Why do I identify myself with those people who have been killed and chased out of East Pakistan? I watched them the other day on television; this is happening everywhere, not only in Pakistan, it is appalling. Now you say you identify yourself with all those refugees - what do you feel?
克里希那穆提：为什么我把我自己与那些被杀害并被赶出东巴基斯坦的人相认同？ 前几天，我在电视上看到他们；这种情况到处都在发生，不只是在巴基斯坦，它令人震惊。 现在，你说你把你自己与所有这些难民相认同 —— 你有什么感觉？
Questioner; Sympathy.
发问者；同情。
K: Go on, explore it, unravel it.
克里希那穆提：继续，探索它，揭露它。
Q: (1) Anger against the people who caused this.
发问者1：对造成这一切的人感到愤怒。
Q: (2) Frustration because you can't do anything about it.
发问者2：挫折，因为你对此无能为力。
K: You get angry with the people who do these things, who kill the young men and chase out old women and children. Is that what you do? You identify with this and reject that. What is the structure, the analysis of this identification?
克里希那穆提：你对做这些事情的人们很生气， 他们杀死年轻人，并驱赶老妇和儿童。 你是那样做的吗？你认同这个，并反对那个。 这种认同的构造和肌理是什么？
Q: It is dualistic.
发问者：它是二元对立的。
K: Move on...
克里希那穆提：继续……
Q: You don't feel secure.
发问者：你没有安全感。
K: Through identification you feel that you could do something?
克里希那穆提：通过认同，你觉得你可以做些什么？
Q: Even by taking one side you feel that you have a certain chance to do something.
发问者：即便是通过选边站队，你感觉你有某种的机会，去做某些事情。
K: I am anti-Catholic, I identify myself with a group who are anti-clerical. Identifying myself with those, I feel I can do something. But go further, it is still me doing something about it, it is still the occupation with myself. I have identified myself with what I consider greater: India, Communism, Catholicism and so on. My family, my God, my belief, my house, you have hurt me - you follow? What is the reason for this identification?
克里希那穆提：我是反天主教徒，我认同于反教权的团体。 把我自己与这些相认同，使我觉得我能做某些事情。 但深入一步，它仍然是“我”在做某些事情，它依然被“我自己”所占据。 我把我自己认同于一个比我认为更伟大的东西：印度、共产主义、天主教等等。 我的家、我的上帝、我的信仰、我的房子，你伤害了我 —— 你跟上了吗？ 这种认同的原因是什么？
Q: I separate myself from the rest of the world and in identifying with something bigger, that something becomes my ally.
发问者：我将自己与世界的其他部分分开， 并认同某些更大的事物，那些事物成了我的盟友。
K: Yes, but why do you do this? I identify myself with you because I like you. I don't identify myself with him because I don't like him. And I identify myself with my family, with my country, with my God, with my belief. Now why do I identify with anything at all - I don't say it is right or wrong - what is behind this identification?
克里希那穆提：是的，但你为什么要这样做？我认同你，因为我喜欢你。 我不认同他，因为我不喜欢他。 我认同我的家、我的国家、我的上帝和我的信仰。 现在，我为什么要认同任何东西 —— 我没有说它是对还是错 —— 这种认同的背后是什么？
Q: Inward confusion.
发问者：内心的困惑。
K: Is it?
克里希那穆提：它是吗？
Q: You are afraid
发问者：你害怕
K: Push further.
克里希那穆提：继续。
Q: The confusion is caused by the identification.
发问者：这种困惑是由这个认同引起的。
K: Is it? I am questioning you and you must question me too. Don't accept what I am saying, enquire. This whole process of identification, why does it happen? And if I don't identify myself with you, or with something, I feel frustrated. Are you sure?
克里希那穆提：是吗？我在质疑你，你也必须质疑我。 不要接受我说的话，去调查。这种认同的整个过程，为什么它发生了？ 如果我不认同你或某个东西，我会感到挫折。你确定吗？
Q: (1) I don't know.
发问者1：我不知道。
Q: (2) You feel unfulfilled empty.
发问者2：你感到匮乏、空虚。
K: Go on. I feel sad, frustrated, not fulfilled, insufficient, empty. Now I want to know why I identify myself with a group, with a community, with feelings, ideas, ideals, heroes and all the rest of it - why?
克里希那穆提：继续。我感到悲伤、挫折、没有填满、不充足、空虚。 现在，我想知道， 为什么我把我自己与一个群体、一个社区、某些情感、想法、理想、英雄以及所有其余的东西相认同 —— 为什么？
Q: I think it is in order to have security.
发问者：我认为这是为了获得安全。
K: Yes. But what do you mean by that word 'security'?
克里希那穆提：是的。但是“安全”那个词是什么意思？
Q: Alone I am weak.
发问者：我独自一个人时，很弱小。
K: Is it because you cannot stand alone?
克里希那穆提：是因为你不能独立吗？
Q: It is because you are afraid to stand alone.
发问者：是因为你害怕独立。
K: You are frightened of being alone, so therefore you identify?
克里希那穆提：你害怕独立，因此你就去认同？
Q: Not always.
发问者：不总是那样。
K: But it is the core, the root of it. Why do I want to identify myself? Because then I feel safe. I have pleasant memories of people and places so I identify myself with that. I see in identification I am much more secure right.
克里希那穆提：但它是核心，它的根源。为什么我要去认同我自己？ 因为那样一来，我就感到安全。我对某个人和某个地方有愉快的回忆，所以我把我自己与这些相认同。 我看到，在认同中，我更安全了。
Q: I don't know if you want to talk about this particular aspect, but if I see the killing in Vietnam is wrong, and there is a group of anti-war demonstrators in Washington, then I go and join them.
发问者：我不知道你是否想谈谈这件特殊的事情， 但如果我看到在越南的杀戮是错误的， 并且华盛顿有一群反战示威者，那么，我就去加入他们。
K: Now wait a minute. There is an anti-war group and I join them. I identify myself with them because in identifying with a group of people who are doing something about it, I am also doing something about it; by myself I cannot do anything. But belonging to a group of people who demonstrate, who write articles and say, "It is terrible," I am actively taking part in stopping the war. That is the identification. We are not seeking the results of that identification - whether it is good or bad. But why does the human mind want to identify itself with something?
克里希那穆提：现在等一下。有一个反战组织，我加入了他们。我把我自己与他们相认同， 因为认同一群正在为此做一些事情的人，我也在为此做一些事情； 我自己什么也做不了。但属于一群示威的人， 他们发表文章，并说“这太可怕了”，我正在积极参与停止战争。 那就是认同。我们不是在寻求这种认同的结果 —— 不管它的好坏。 但是，为什么人类的头脑想要将它自己与某个东西相认同呢？
Q: When is it action and when is it identification?
发问者：什么时候它是行动，什么时候它是认同？
K: I am coming to that. First, I want to be clear in myself and in talking it over find out why I should identify. And when necessary I will identify. That is, I must first understand what it means to cooperate. Then, when I am really deeply cooperating, then I will know when not to cooperate. Not the other way round. I don't know if you see this? If I know what is involved in cooperation, which is a tremendous thing - to work together, to live together, to do things together - when I understand that, then I will know when not to cooperate.
克里希那穆提：我正在展开那个问题。 首先，我想清楚我自己，在谈论它的时候，找出为什么我应该去认同。 必要时我会认同。也就是说，我首先要理解什么是合作。 然后，当我真正深入合作时，我就会知道什么时候不合作。而不是通过其它方式。 不知道你们是否看到了这一点？ 如果我知道合作中所涉及到的内容，那是一件了不起的事情 —— 一起工作，一起生活，一起做事情 —— 当我理解那，我就会知道什么时候不应该合作。
Now I want to know why I identify myself with anything. Not that I shouldn't identify if there is a necessity of identification in action, but before I find out how to act, or with whom I can cooperate, I want to find out why there is this urge to identify. To have security? - is that the reason? Because you are far from your country, from your family, you identify with this house, with a group, to be safe, protected. The identification takes place because you feel, "Here I am secure." So is the reason you identify because you are insecure? Is that it? Insecurity means fear, uncertainty, not to know what to think, to be confused. So you need protection - it is good to have protection. Is that the reason why you identify?
现在，我想知道，为什么我把我自己与任何东西相认同。 那并不是说我不应该在行为中认同，当有认同的必要性时， 而是说，在我应该如何行动或与谁合作之前，为什么我会有这种认同的冲动， 是为了拥有安全吗？—— 是那个原因吗？ 因为你远离你的国家，远离你的家人，你认同这所房子，一个群体，以便于有安全、被保护。 这种认同之所以发生，是因为您感到“我在这里很安全”。 因此，你认同的原因是因为你不安全吗？是那样吗？ 不安全意味着恐惧、不确定、不知道该想什么、感到困惑。 所以你需要保护 —— 有保护是好的。那就是你认同的原因吗？
What is the next step? In myself I am uncertain, unclear, confused, frightened and insufficient, therefore I identify myself with a belief, Now what happens?
下一步是什么？我自己不确定、不清楚、困惑、恐惧和不足， 所以我把我自己与一个信念相认同，在发生什么？
Q: I find I am still insecure.
发问者：我发现我仍然不安全。
K: No. I have identified myself with certain ideologies. What happens then?
克里希那穆提：不，我把我自己与某种意识形态相认同。那么，发生了什么？
Q: You try to make that your security.
发问者：你试图把那制造你的安全。
K: I have given various reasons for this identification: because it is rational, it is workable, all the rest of it. Now what happens when I have identified myself with it?
克里希那穆提：对于这种认同，我给出了各种理由： 因为它是合理的、是可行的、等等。 现在，当我把我自己与它相认同，发生了什么？
Q: You have a conflict.
发问者：你有一种冲突。
K: Look what happens. I have identified myself with an ideology, with a group of people, or a person, it is part of me. I must protect that mustn't I? Therefore if it is threatened I am lost, I am back again to my insecurity. So what takes place? I am angry with anybody who attacks or doubts it. Then what is the actual thing that takes place?
克里希那穆提：看看在发生什么。 我把我自己与一种意识形态、一群人或一个人认同，它是我的一部分。 我必须保护它，不是吗？ 因此，如果它受到威胁，我就迷失了，我又回到了我的不安中。那么，在发生什么？ 我对任何攻击或怀疑它的人都感到愤怒。那么，实际在发生的事情是什么？
Q: Conflict.
发问者：冲突。
K: Look: I have identified myself with an ideology. I must protect it because it is my security and I resist anybody who threatens that, in the sense of having a contradictory ideology. So where I have identified myself with an ideology there must be resistance, I build a wall round what I have identified myself with. Where there is a wall, it must create division. Then there is conflict. I don't know if you see all this?
克里希那穆提：看：我已经把自己认同于一种意识形态。 我必须保护它，因为它是我的安全，我抵制任何威胁它的人，因为它具有与之相反的意识形态。 因此，在我把我自己与某种意识形态相认同的地方，就必然有抵抗，我在认同的地方筑起了一堵墙。 有墙的地方，就必定有划分。接着就是冲突。我不知道你是否看到了这一切？
Now what is the next step? - go on.
现在，下一步是什么？—— 继续。
Q: (1) What is the difference between identification and cooperation?
发问者1：认同和合作之间，有什么区别？
Q: (2) It seems there has to be more understanding of cooperation.
发问者2：似乎必须对合作有更多的理解。
K: You know what it means to cooperate, to work together? Can there be cooperation when there is identification? Do you know what we mean by identification? We have examined the anatomy of it. Cooperation means to work together. Can I work with you if I have identified myself with an ideology and you are identified with another ideology? Obviously not.
克里希那穆提：你知道吗，合作、一起工作是什么意思？ 当产生了认同，还有合作吗？ 你知道我们所说的认同是什么意思吗？ 我们已经检视了它的构造。合作意味着一起工作。 如果我把我自己与一种意识形态相认同，而你认同于另一种意识形态，我能与你一起工作吗？ 显然不能。
Q: But people have to work together.
发问者：但是人们必须一起工作。
K: Is that cooperation?
克里希那穆提：那是合作吗？
Q: No.
发问者：不是。
K: See what is involved. Because of our identification with an ideology we work together, you protect it and I protect it. It is our security, in the name of God, in the name of beauty, in the name of anything. We think that is cooperation. Now what takes place? Can there be cooperation when there is identification with a group?
克里希那穆提：看看其中所涉及到的。 因为我们认同一种意识形态，我们一起工作，你保护它，我保护它。 它是我们的安全，以上帝的名义，以美的名义，以任何东西的名义。我们认为那就是合作。 现在，在发生什么？有了对一个组织的认同，还能合作吗？
Q: No, because there is division. I find myself in conflict with members of the group, because I keep identifying with them.
发问者：不能，因为有划分。 我发现我自己与小组成员处于冲突中，因为我一直认同他们。
K: Look what is happening. You and I have identified ourselves with that ideology. Our interpretation of that ideology may be...
克里希那穆提：看看在发生什么。你和我都认同那种意识形态。 我们对那种意识形态的解释可能是……
Q: ...different...
发问者：……不同的……
K: Of course. If you vary in the interpretation of that ideology you are deviating, therefore we are in conflict. Therefore we must both of us agree about that ideology completely. Is that possible?
克里希那穆提：当然。如果您对那种意识形态的解释有所不同，那么您就是在偏离，因此我们处于冲突之中。 因此，我们双方必须完全同意那种意识形态。那可能吗？
Q: That is exactly what happens with a school. Instead of an ideology, you identify with a school and each person has his own concept.
发问者：那正是这个学校所发生的事情。 不是认同一种意识形态，而是你在认同一所学校，而每个人对它都有他自己的概念。
K: Yes, quite right - why?
克里希那穆提：是的，完全正确 —— 为什么？
Q: I sense that sometimes there is conflict here for just the reason you were giving when talking about an ideology. If you and I identify with the school, we think we are cooperating, but there isn't that spirit.
发问者：有的时候，我感到 这里会产生冲突，这种原因正是你刚才所讲的意识形态。 如果你和我认同于这个学校，我们认为我们在合作，却不存在那种精神。
K: Therefore I am asking, can there be cooperation when there is identification.
克里希那穆提：所以我问，有认同的时候，还能不能合作？
Q: No.
发问者：不能。
K: Do you know what you are saying? (Laughter.) That is how everything in this world is working. Is that the truth? - that where there is identification there can be no cooperation? It is a marvellous thing to discover the truth of this. Not your opinion, or my opinion, but the truth, the validity of it. Therefore we have to find out what we mean by cooperation. You see there can be no cooperation when there is identification with an idea, with a leader, with a group and so on. Then, what is cooperation in which there is no identification?
克里希那穆提：你知道你在说什么吗？（笑声。） 那就是这个世界上一切事物的运作方式。那是这个真理吗？ —— 那哪里有认同，哪里就没有合作？ 发现这件事的真理，是一件了不起的事情。 不是你的意见，或我的意见，而是真理，它的有效性。 因此，我们必须找出合作的含义。 你看，当认同一个想法、一个领导者、一个团队等等时，就不可能有合作。 那么，什么是没有认同的合作？
Q: Acting in response to the situation itself.
发问者：针对情况本身采取行动。
K: I am not saying you are not right, but can we work together when you and I think differently? When you are concerned with yourself and I am concerned with myself? And one of the reasons is, that knowing we cannot cooperate when we are thinking of ourselves, we try to identify ourselves with an ideology, hoping thereby to bring about cooperation. But if you don't identify, what is cooperation?
克里希那穆提：我不是说你不对， 但是当你和我的想法不同时，我们可以一起工作吗？ 当你关心你自己而我关心我自己时？ 其中一个原因是，当我们想到我们自己时，我们就知道我们无法合作， 我们试图将自己与一种意识形态相认同，希望由此而带来合作。 但如果你没有认同，那么，什么是合作？
Here we are at Brockwood, in a school. We see there cannot be cooperation when there is identification with the school, with an idea, with a programme, with a particular policy of this and that. And also we see that identification is the cause of all division. Then, what is cooperation? To work together: not "about something". Do you see the difference? So before you do something together, what is the spirit of cooperation? The feeling, the inwardness of it, what is that feeling?
我们在布罗克伍德的这所学校。 我们看到，当认同一所学校、一个想法、一个计划、一个特定的这种和那种的政策时，就不可能有合作。 我们也看到，认同是一切划分的原因。那么，什么是合作？ 一起工作：不是“关于某个东西”。你看得到这种区别了吗？ 因此，在你们一起做某事之前，这种合作精神是什么？ 这种感觉，它的这种内在，那种感觉是什么？
Q: Understanding, being completely open to it.
发问者：理解，对它完全地敞开。
K: Go a little deeper. We said identification is not cooperation. Are you quite sure on that point? And are you quite clear that cooperation cannot exist when each of us is concerned with himself? But you are concerned with yourself, therefore you have no spirit of cooperation, you only cooperate when it pleases you. So what does it mean to cooperate? We are not playing parlour games. What does it mean to cooperate when there is no 'me'? - otherwise you can't cooperate. I may try to cooperate round an idea, but there is always the 'me' that is trying to identify itself with the thing that I am doing. So I must find out why it is that I am thinking about myself all day long: how I look, that somebody is better than me; why somebody has hurt me, or somebody has said, "What a nice person you are." Now why am I doing this all day long? And at night too, when I'm asleep this goes on. - I am better than you, I know what I am talking about, it is my experience, you are stupid, I am clever... Why?
克里希那穆提：再深入一点。我们说：认同不是合作。你对那一点很确定吗？ 你是否很清楚：当我们每个人都关心他自己时，合作就不可能存在？ 但是，你只关心你自己，因此，你没有合作精神，只有当你喜欢的时候，你才合作。 那么，合作是什么意思？我们不是在玩客厅游戏。 当没有了“我”，合作是什么意思？—— 否则你不可能合作。 我可能会尝试围绕一个想法而进行合作， 但总有一个“我”试图将它自己与我正在做的事情相认同。 因此我必须找出为什么我整天都在想我自己： 我长得怎么样、某个人比我更好、为什么某某人伤害我， 或者某个人说，你真是个好人。 现在我问，为什么我整天都在做这种事情？到了晚上也是，当我睡觉的时候，这种情况还在继续 —— 我比你更好、我知道我在说什么、它是我的体验、你很笨、我很聪明…… 为什么？
Q: It seems a lot of it becomes a habit.
发问者：这一切似乎都变成了一种习惯。
K: What is habit?
克里希那穆提：什么是习惯？
Q: Not being aware.
发问者：没有处于觉察的状态。
K: No. What is habit? - not how is it formed.
克里希那穆提：不。什么是习惯？—— 不是说它是如何形成的。
Q: Repetition of a movement.
发问者：重复一个动作。
K: Right. Why is there a repetition of this movement? Why is habit formed? You will see something extraordinary if you go slowly. We have all got short hair or long hair - why? Because others do it.
克里希那穆提：对。为什么会重复这种动作？为什么会形成习惯？ 如果你慢慢进去，你会看到某个非凡的东西。 我们都留有短头发或者长头发 —— 为什么？因为别人也这么做。
Q: Is that habit or imitation?
发问者：那是习惯，还是模仿？
K: See what takes place. First you imitate others, then you say short hair is square.
克里希那穆提：看看发生了什么。首先，你模仿别人，然后，你说留短发的是老古董。
Q: Is a custom a habit too?
发问者：风俗也是一种习惯吗？
K: Yes. I don't want to go too quickly into this. Isn't all thinking habit? You agree?
克里希那穆提：是的。我不想太快地进入这个。所有的思考不都是习惯吗？你同意？
Q: Well, it is something you do over and over again.
发问者：嗯，它是你一遍又一遍在做的事情。
K: Go on, see what you can discover for yourself when we go into this whole question of habit.
克里希那穆提：继续，在我们深入习惯的整个问题时，看看你自己能发现什么。
Q: It is really a situation with an old reaction, isn't it?
发问者：它真的是这种情况：一种旧的反应一再地重复，难道不是它吗？
K: A new situation we meet with old responses. Is not identification a habit?
克里希那穆提：在新的情况下，我们遇到了旧的反应。难道认同不是一种习惯吗？
Q: Yes.
发问者：它是。
K: Because you are insecure. So do you know the nature of this machinery that makes for habit? Are you aware that you are always operating by habit? To get up at six o'clock every day; to believe all this; to smoke, not to smoke, to take drugs - you follow? Everything is reduced to habit - it may be of a week, ten days, or fifty years, but the habit is formed. Why does the mind fall into this groove? Haven't you asked yourself why you have a habit? - habit being merely tradition. Have you watched your mind working in habit?
克里希那穆提：因为你不安全。因此，你知道这种形成习惯机制的性质吗？ 你可觉察到，你总是在习惯性地操作？ 每天六点起床，相信这一切， 抽烟，不抽烟，吸毒 —— 你跟上了吗？一切都缩减成了习惯 —— 它可能是一周、十天或五十年，但这种习惯已经形成。 为什么这颗头脑会掉进这个坑里？ 你有没有问过你自己：为什么你有一个习惯？ —— 习惯只是传统。你有没有观察到你的头脑是在习惯中工作？
Q: (1) It is easier.
发问者1：这样更轻松。
Q: (2) It takes really a lot of energy to live without habit.
发问者2：没有习惯的生活，真的需要花费大量的能量。
K: I am coming to that. Don't jump, move from step to step. I am asking myself: why does the mind always live in habit? I thought that yesterday, I still think that today and I will think the same about it tomorrow - with slight modifications perhaps. Now why does the mind do this?
克里希那穆提：我正在展开那。不要跳跃，一步一步地来。 我在问我自己：为什么这颗头脑总是活在习惯中？ 我昨天是那么想的，我今天仍然那么想，明天我也会那么想 —— 也许略有调整。 现在，为什么这颗头脑做这些？
Questioner. One is half asleep.
发问者。一个人处于半睡半醒之中。
K: We said laziness is part of it. What else? It feels easier with habits.
克里希那穆提：我们说，懒惰是其中的一部分。还有什么？养成习惯后，感觉更容易。
Q: One is afraid of the unknown.
发问者：一个人害怕未知。
K: I want to go a little deeper than that.
克里希那穆提：我想走得更深一点。
Q: The mind is afraid that if it doesn't maintain thinking in the same way, it will itself be threatened.
发问者：这颗头脑害怕，如果它不以同样的方式保持思考，它本身就会受到威胁。
K: Which means what?
克里希那穆提：这意味着什么？
Q: It sees a certain kind of order in habit.
发问者：它在习惯中看到了某种秩序。
K: Is habit order?
克里希那穆提：习惯是秩序吗？
Q: You can form a certain structure with habit, but that is not necessarily order.
发问者：通过习惯，你可以形成某种结构，但那不一定是秩序。
K: Which means that the mind functions in habit for various reasons, like a machine. It is easier, it avoids loneliness, fear of the unknown, and it implies a certain order to say, "I will follow that and nothing else." Now why does the mind function in a groove, which is habit?
克里希那穆提：这意味着大脑会出于各种原因而习惯性地运作，就像一台机器。 它运转得更轻松，它躲避孤独，躲避对未知的恐惧，并且它隐含了某种秩序，它说： “我会遵循那个流程，并排除其它选项。” 现在，为什么这颗头脑运转于一个固定的轨迹中，也就是习惯中？
Q: Its nature is that.
发问者：它的性质就是那样。
K: But if you say that, then you stop enquiring. We know the reasons why the mind functions in habit. Are you actually aware of it? The highly psychopathic person has got a habit which is completely different from others. A neurotic person has got certain habits. We condemn that habit but accept others. So why does the mind do this? I want to go into it deeper, I want to see why it does it and whether the mind can live without habit.
克里希那穆提：但如果你那么说，那么你的调查就停止了。 我们知道头脑在习惯中运作的原因。你真实地觉察到了它？ 一个精神高度变态的人有一个与其他人完全不同的习惯。 一个神经质的人有某些习惯。我们谴责那种习惯，却接受其他的习惯。 那么，为什么这颗头脑会这样做？我想再深入它， 我想看看它为什么这样做，以及这颗头脑能不能没有习惯地活着。
Q: Because it feels it is the personality.
发问者：好像它就是人的个性。
K: We said that: the personality, the ego, the 'me' which says, "I am frightened, I want order", laziness, all that is 'me' - different facets of the 'me'. Can the mind live without habit? - except for the biological habits, the regular functioning of the body which has its own mechanism, its own intelligence, its own machinery. But why does the mind accept habit so quickly? The question, "Can it live without habit?" is a tremendous question. To say that there is God, there is a Saviour, is a habit. And to say there is no Saviour but only the State, that is another habit. So the mind lives in habit. Does it feel more secure in habit?
克里希那穆提：我们说了：这种个性，这个自我，这位‘我’说： “我很害怕，我想要秩序”、懒散，所有那些都是“我” —— 是“我”的不同侧面。 没有了习惯，这颗头脑能活吗？ —— 除了生理上的习惯，身体在正常运作时有它自己的机能，自己的智慧，自己的体系。 但是，为什么头脑会这么快地接受习惯呢？ 这个问题：“没有了习惯，这颗头脑能活吗？” ，是一个巨大的问题。 说“有上帝，有一个救世主”，就是一种习惯。 说“没有救世主，只有国家”，是另一种习惯。 所以，这颗头脑活在习惯中。在习惯中，它觉得更安全吗？
Q: Yes.
发问者：是的。
K: Go slowly, which means what? Functioning in the field of the known it feels safe. The known is habit - right?
克里希那穆提：慢慢来，那意味着什么？ 在已知的领域内运转，它感到安全。已知就是习惯 —— 对吧？
Q: Even then, we still say we don't feel safe.
发问者：即便如此，我们仍然说我们感到不安全。
K: Because the known may change or may be taken away or get something added to it. But the mind is always functioning in the field of the known because there it feels secure. So the known is the habit, the known is knowledge - that is, knowledge of science, of technology, and the knowledge of my own experiences. And in that there is mechanical habit - of course. Now I am asking: can the mind move from the known - not into the unknown, I don't know what that means - but be free and move away from the borders of the known?
克里希那穆提：因为已知可能会改变，可能被带走，或者添加某些东西。 但是这颗头脑总是在已知的领域中运作，因为在那里它感到安全。 因此，已知就是习惯，已知就是知识 —— 那就是科学知识、技术知识以及我自己体验到的知识。 在那里，有机械性的习惯 —— 当然。 现在我问：这颗头脑能离开已知吗 —— 不是进入未知，我不知道那意味着什么 —— 而是自由地远离已知的边界？
Look. If I know everything about the internal combustion engine, I can continue experimenting in the same direction, but there is a limitation. I must find something new, there must be some other way to create energy.
看。如果我对内燃机的一切了如指掌， 我可以继续朝同一个方向进行实验，但是这里有一个限制。 我必须找到某个新的东西，必须有其他的方式来创造能量。
Q: Would the mind say that, if it wanted the security of the known?
发问者：这颗头脑会不会说，如果它想要这种已知的安全？
K: I am not talking about security at the moment.
克里希那穆提：我现在不是在谈论安全。
Q: Are you saying that there has to be a lack of continuity? In technology, in order for something new to happen, there has to be a break in continuity.
发问者：你是说，必须缺乏延续？ 在技术方面，为了让新事物发生，必须打破延续。
K: That's right. That is what takes place. Otherwise man couldn't have invented the jet, he must have looked at the problem differently. Are you following all this? My mind always works in the field of the known, modified, which is habit. In relationship with human beings, in thought - which is the response of memory and always within the field of the known - I am identifying myself with the unknown through the known. So I am asking: the mind must function with the known, because otherwise one couldn't talk, but can it also function without any habit?
克里希那穆提：没错。那就是所发生的事情。 否则，人类不可能发明喷气式飞机，他必须以不同的方式看待这个问题。你跟上这一切了吗？ 我的头脑总是在已知的、被调整过的领域内工作，也就是习惯。 在人类的关系中，在思想中 —— 也就是记忆的反应，并且总是在已知的领域内 —— 通过已知，我将我自己与未知相认同。 所以我问：这颗头脑必须与已知一起运作，否则一个人不能说话， 但是，它能在没有任何习惯的情况下运作吗？
Q: Does the mind ask that question because acting out of habit is unsuccessful?
发问者：这颗头脑问那个问题，是因为习惯性的行动是不成功的吗？
K: I am not thinking of success.
克里希那穆提：我不是在想成功。
Q: But what would make the mind ask this?
发问者：但是，为什么头脑提出这个问题？
K: My mind says, "This isn't good enough, I want more." It wants to find out more it can't find it within the field of the known, it can only expand that field.
克里希那穆提：我的头脑说，“这还不够好，我想要更多。” 它想找到更多它在已知的领域内找不到的，它只能扩展那个领域。
Q: But it has to realize the limitation.
发问者：但它必须意识到这种限制。
K: I realize it, and I say to myself: I can function within the field of the known, I can always expand it or contract it, horizontally, vertically, in any way, but it is always within the field of the known. My mind says: I understand that very well. And so, being curious, it says: can the mind live, can it function, without habit?
克里希那穆提：我意识到了它，我对我自己说：我能在已知的领域内运作， 我总是可以水平地、垂直地以任何方式扩展或收缩它，但它总是在已知的领域内。 我的头脑说：我非常理解。 因此，出于好奇，它说：没有了习惯，这颗头脑能活吗？它能运转吗？
Q: Is that a different question?
发问者：那是一个不同的问题吗？
K: Now I am talking psychologically, inwardly. Apparently all life, all the mental activity in the psyche, is a continuity of habit.
克里希那穆提：现在，我是在心理上、内在层面上说。 显然，所有的生命，心灵中的所有心理活动，都是习惯的延续。
Q: Is there really an impetus or something...
发问者：真的存在一个推动力还是某个东西……
K: I am creating an impetus. The mind is itself creating the impetus to find out - not because it wants to find something.
克里希那穆提：我正在创造一种推动力。这颗头脑本身正在创造一种去寻找的推动力 —— 不是因为它想去寻找某个东西。
Q: This is a very touchy point. This seems to be the key to some difficulty. Why - if I may just ask the question - does the mind say: I see the need for living without psychological habit?
发问者：这是一个非常敏感的点。这似乎是某些困难的关键。 为什么 —— 如果我可以问这个问题 —— 这颗头脑会这样说吗：我看到了没有心理上的习惯的生活的必要性？
K: I don't see the need, I am not positing anything. I am only saying I have seen the mind in operation in the field of the known - contracting, expanding horizontally or vertically, or reducing it to nothing, but always within that area. And my mind asks, is there a way of living - I don't know it, I don't even posit it - in which there is no habit at all?
克里希那穆提：我没有看见这种必要性，我没有提出任何要求。 我只是说，我在已知领域中看到了头脑的运作 —— 收缩、水平或垂直地扩张，或将其缩小到无，但始终在那个领域内。 我的头脑在问，有没有一种生活方式 —— 我不知道它，我甚至没有假设它 —— 其中根本没有习惯？
So we come back: do you know what you are thinking about all day? You say, yes, I am thinking about myself, vaguely or concretely, or subtly, or in a most refined manner, but always round that. Can there be love when the mind is occupied with itself all the time? You say, "No". Why?
所以我们回来了：你知道你成天都在想些什么？ 你说，是的，我正在想我自己，模糊的、或具体的、或微妙的、或以最精致的方式，但总是绕着那个核心。 当头脑一直被它自己占据时，还能有爱吗？你说，“不能”。为什么？
Q: Because if you are thinking about your self all the time, you can't...
发问者：因为如果你一直想着你自己，你就不能……
K: Therefore you can never say, "I love you", until you stop thinking about yourself. When a man feels ambitious, competitive, imitative, which is part of thinking about oneself, can there be love? So we have to find a way of living in which habit is not. But habit can be used, the known can be used - I won't call it habit - in a different way, depending on the circumstances, the situation and so on. So is love habit? Pleasure is habit, isn't it? - is love pleasure?
克里希那穆提：因此你永远不能说“我爱你”，直到你停止想你自己。 当一个人感受到了野心、竞争、模仿，就是在想自己，那里有爱吗？ 所以，我们必须找到一种没有习惯的生活方式。 但是习惯可以被利用，已知可以被利用 —— 我不会称它为习惯 —— 以不同的方式，取决于环境、情况等等。 那么爱是习惯吗？快乐是习惯吗？—— 爱是快乐吗？
Q: What do you mean by love, Sir?
发问者：你所说的爱是什么意思，先生？
K: I don't know. I will tell you what it is not, and when that is not in you, the other is. Listen to this: where the known is, love is not.
克里希那穆提：我不知道。我会告诉你它不是什么， 当它不在你的里面时，另一个在你里面。听：已知存在的地方，没有爱。
Q: So one has to find out first what habit is, and then about non-habit.
发问者：所以，一个人必须首先找出习惯是什么，然后是非习惯。
K: We have found it, we have said: habit is the continuation of action within the field of the known. The known is the tomorrow. Tomorrow is Sunday and I am going out for a drive - I know that, I have arranged it. Can I say, "Tomorrow I will love"?
克里希那穆提：我们已经找到了，我们说过：习惯是在已知领域内行动的延续。 已知就是明天。明天是星期天，我要出去兜风 —— 我知道那些，我已经安排好了。我能说“明天我会爱”吗？
Q: (1) No.
发问者1：不能。
Q: (2) I do.
发问者2：我能。
K: What do you mean? "I will love you tomorrow?"
克里希那穆提：“明天我会爱你” —— 你说这句话是什么意思？
Q: We promise that.
发问者：我们保证。
K: In a church, you mean? That means love is within the field of the known and therefore within time.
克里希那穆提：你是说，在教堂里？那意味着爱在已知的领域内，因此在时间之内。
Q: But if you love once, can you suddenly stop loving?
发问者：但是如果你爱过一次，你能突然停止爱吗？
K: I loved you once, I am bored with you now!
克里希那穆提：我曾经爱过你，现在，我讨厌你！
Q: If you love someone today you can love him tomorrow.
发问者：如果你今天爱一个人，你明天就能爱他。
K: How do you know? I love you today, but you want to be sure that I'll love you tomorrow, therefore I say, "I'll love you, darling, tomorrow."
克里希那穆提：你怎么知道？我今天爱你， 但你想确定我明天会爱你，所以我说，“亲爱的，明天我会爱你。”
Q: That is something else.
发问者：那是另一回事。
K: I am asking: has love a tomorrow? Habit has a tomorrow because it continues. Is love a continuity? Is love identification? - I love my wife, my son, my God? Therefore you have to really understand - not just verbally - the whole process, the structure and the nature of the known, the whole field of it inwardly, how you function always within that field, thinking from that field. The tomorrow you can grasp because it is projected from the known. To really understand this you have to understand all that we have said; you have to know what you think and why, and you have to observe it.
克里希那穆提：我在问：爱有明天吗？ 习惯有明天，因为它在延续。爱是一种延续吗？ 爱是认同吗？—— 我爱我的妻子、我的儿子、我的上帝？ 因此，你必须真正理解 —— 不只是口头上 —— 已知的整个过程、结构和性质，它的整个内在领域， 你是怎样在那个领域内不停地运作和思考的。 你可以把握明天，因为它是从已知中投射出来的。 要真正理解这一点，您必须理解我们所说的那一切； 你必须知道你在想什么，以及为什么那么想，你必须观察它。
Q: You can know what you think, but you don't always know why you think it.
发问者：你能知道你在想什么，但你并不总是知道你为什么想它。
K: Oh yes, it is fairly simple. I want to know why I think, why thought comes in. Yesterday I went to the tailor and I forgot my watch there. Last night I looked for it and I thought about it and said, "How lazy of me, how inconsiderate on my part to leave it there, giving trouble" - all that went through the mind.
克里希那穆提：是的，它相当简单。我想知道我为什么会想，为什么会有想法出现。 昨天我去裁缝店，我把手表忘在那里了。 昨晚我寻找它，我想起来了，我说， “我多么懒散，多么考虑不周，把它留在那里，以致于带来了麻烦” —— 所有那些都从头脑中过了一遍。
Q: When you say it was inconsiderate of you, you were identifying yourself.
发问者：当你说你考虑不周时，你是在认同你自己。
K: No I forgot the watch. Which means they have to take the trouble to look after it, someone might take it, they will be responsible, all that. And I thought about it, and I know why this whole momentum of thinking arose from that I watched the whole flow of thought; you can know the beginning and the ending of thought - you look so mystified! - I have thought about it and I can end it. I left the watch there and I thought it might get lost; I have had it for a long time, I have cared for it. I would give it away, but not lose it. And it is lost! - finished. I didn't think any more about it. Now, to watch every thought, to be aware of it! Any thought is significant if you penetrate it; you can see the origin of it and the ending of it - not go on and on.
克里希那穆提：不，我忘记了这个手表。也就是说他们必须花费心思地照顾它， 有人可能会拿走它，他们将负责照看，等等。 我想到了它，我就知道为什么会产生这整个思考的动力，因为我观察了整个思想的流程； 你能够知道思想的开始和结束 —— 你看起来很迷惑！—— 我已经想过了它，我能结束它。 我把手表留在那里，我以为它可能会丢；我已经拥有它很长时间了，我一直在照顾它。 我也许会丢掉它，但不是失去它。而它却丢了！—— 结束。关于它，我不再多想。 现在，观察每一个想法，觉察它！ 任何一丝思想都很重要，只要你深入它； 你可以看到它的起源和它的结束 —— 而不是让它不断地延续。
Q: And you say, Sir, if you see why the thought originated you will be able to see the ending of it?
发问者：你说，先生，如果你看到这个想法的起源，你就能够看到它的结束吗？
K: No, look. Is there an individual thought separate from another thought? Are all thoughts separate or are they interrelated? What do you say?
克里希那穆提：不，你看。是否存在一个单独的、与另一个想法分开的的想法？ 所有的想法是分开的还是相互关联的？你说什么？
Q: They are interrelated.
发问者：它们是相互关联的。
K: Are you sure?
克里希那穆提：你确定？
Q: Well, they all come from one another.
发问者：嗯，它们都来自另一个。
K: If I understand their interrelationship, or if there is an understanding of the background from which all thought springs...
克里希那穆提：如果我理解它们之间的相互关系， 或者理解那个背景，那个所有思想的源头……
Q: That is the difficult point.
发问者：那就是难点。
K: To watch without any question of wanting an answer means infinite watchfulness - not impatience - but watch carefully, then everything comes out. If you and I quarrel, I don't want to carry it in my mind, in thought, I want to finish it. I'll come to you and say, "I am sorry, I didn't mean it" - and it is finished. But do I do that? Have you learnt a lot this morning? Not "learnt" but "learning: what it means to learn.
克里希那穆提：观察，不去期待任何一个答案，意味着无限的警觉 —— 不是急躁 —— 而是仔细地观察，那么，一切显现。 如果你和我吵架，我不想把它放在我的头脑里、我的思想里，我想把它了结。 我会来找你说，“对不起，我不是故意的” —— 然后，它就结束了。 但是我那样做了吗？你今天早上学到了很多东西吗？ 不是“学到”而是“学”：处于学习的状态。