1-5 learning what is security 学习什么是安全

discipline 纪律
follows someone 追随某人
inward space 内在的空间
security 安全
make home 创建一个家
feel at home 在家的感觉
true security 真正的安全
meditation 冥想

1-5 1970.1.31

K: In a school like this, what is order and what is discipline? The word "discipline" means "to learn". A "disciple" is one who learns, not who conforms, not who obeys; he is one who is constantly learning. And when learning ceases and becomes merely accumulation of knowledge then disorder begins. When we stop learning in our relationship, whether we are studying, playing, or whatever we are doing, and merely act from the knowledge that we have accumulated, then disorder comes.

克里希那穆提：在这样一个学校里，什么是秩序，什么是纪律？ “纪律”一词的意思是“去学习”。 “弟子”是指一个在学习的人，而不是顺从的、服从的人；他是一个不断学习的人。 当学习停止，仅仅变成一大堆知识的时候，那么，失序就开始了。 我们的相互关系中，无论是上课、玩耍，还是我们正在做的任何事情上，当我们停止了学习，而仅仅按照我们积累的那堆知识而采取行动，那样一来，失序就出来了。

Discipline is learning. You say something, such as, "Don't give the dogs too much food" or, "Go to bed early" or, "Be punctual", "Keep the room tidy". You tell me that and I am learning. Life, living, is a movement in learning and if I resist your telling me what to do, the resistance is the assertion of my own particular accumulated knowledge; therefore I cease to learn and so create a conflict between you and me.

纪律就是学习进行时。你说了某些话，例如，“不要给狗狗们喂太多的食物”，或者，“早点睡觉”、“准时”或“保持房间整洁”。你说给我听，我正在学习。生命，生活，是一个学习的运动，你告诉我应该做什么，如果我反抗你的话，那种反抗来自于我所积累的某一部分知识的断言；因此，我停止了学习，进而，在你我之间制造出了一个冲突。

K: Everybody is learning. "Disciple" means "one who learns". But the generally accepted meaning is that a disciple is one who follows someone, some guru, some silly person. But both the follower and the one who is followed are not learning.

克里希那穆提：每个人都正在学习。“弟子”的意思是“在学习的人”。可是，普遍接受的意思是，弟子是追随某人、某个上师、某个蠢人的人。然而，追随者和被追随者都不是在学习。

K: You cannot follow anybody. The moment you follow somebody you are making yourself an idiot and the one whom you follow is also an idiot - because they have stopped learning. So, what do you do about discipline, about order? Are you learning about everything? - not only about geography, history and all the rest of it, but learning about relationship? We are living together in this house, each pulling in a different direction, each wanting something, each resisting somebody else saying, "Oh, he or she has become authoritarian." All such assertions, all such resistances, and doing what one thinks one wants to do - does not all that create disorder?

克里希那穆提：你不能追随任何人。你追随某人的那一刻，你就使你自己成为了白痴，而你追随的那个人也是白痴 —— 因为他们已经停止学习。 因此，关于纪律，关于秩序，你是怎么做的？你在学习相关的一切吗？ —— 不仅是关于地理、历史和所有其他方面，还有与关系相关的学习？我们一起住在这个房子里，每个人都朝着不同的方向前进，每个人都想要某些东西，每个人都拒绝别人说：“哦，他或她变得独裁了。” 像那样的所有的断言、所有的反抗，以及做自己想做的事情 —— 不正是那一切，制造出了失序吗？

If you say, "I'm doing what I want to do; I'm being natural; it's my nature and you are not going to tell me what to do" - if you say that, and I say the same, what then takes place? What is our relationship? Can we ever do anything "naturally"? This is a very serious question, if you follow what I mean. Are you natural, any of you? Of course you are not! You are influenced - by your father, by your mother, by society, by your culture, by the climate, the food, the clothes, the propaganda. You are completely influenced and then you say, "I must be natural!" It has no meaning. You say, "I want to do what I think is the right thing" or, "I am a free person". You are not! You are not free. Freedom is something tremendous and to start out saying, "I am free" has no meaning. You don't even know what it means.

如果你说，“我在做我想做的事；我感觉很自然；这是我的本性，不用你告诉我该怎么做” —— 如果你这么说，我也这么说，那会发生什么？我们之间有什么关系？我们可以“自然地”做任何事情吗？这是一个非常严肃的问题，如果你理解我的意思。你是自然的吗，你们所有的人？你们当然不是！你被影响了 —— 来自于你的父亲、你的母亲、社会、文化、气候、食物、衣服、宣传。你已经被彻底影响了，然后你说，“我必须自然！” 它没有任何意义。你说，“我想做我认为正确的事情”或者“我是一个自由的人”。你不是！你不自由。自由是某个广大的东西，一开始就说“我是自由的”，是没有意义的。你根本不知道是什它么意思。

K: It is tremendous when one is free, but one is not. Can one realize that one is not free? Freedom means freedom from fear. It means freedom from any form of resistance. Freedom means a movement without isolation. It means having no resistance at all. So are you free? We are frightened, we resist, we are isolated within our own little ideas, wants and desires, obviously. So when you say "freedom" and "natural", those two words have no meaning. You can only be free when you have understood how deeply you are conditioned and are free of that conditioning. Then one can be free, then one is natural.

克里希那穆提：当一个人是自由的，他就是广大的，但一个人不是。一个人能意识到自己是不自由的吗？自由意味着从恐惧中解放出来。它意味着从任何形式的反抗中解放出来。自由意味着一种不孤立的运动。它意味着根本没有反抗。因此，你是自由的吗？很明显，我们害怕，我们反抗，我们被孤立在我们自己小小的想法、需求和欲望中。所以，当你说“自由”和“自然”的时候，这两个词没有意义。只有当您理解自己所受的限制有多深，并且摆脱这种限制，您才能自由。那样，一个人自由了，才是自然的。

You know what order means? To have a lot of space, doesn't it? In a little room where there is no space it is more difficult to have order. You don't agree? You'll see it in a minute. Somebody told me about an experiment with rats: they put a lot of rats in a very small space and because they had no space they began to kill each other - the mother killed her babies. But we also need space inwardly. More and more cities are becoming overcrowded. You ought to go to India and see some of the big towns like Calcutta, Bombay or Delhi - you have no idea what it is like, the noise, the shouting, the people. They are like ants on the streets and, having no space, they are exploding in violence.

你可知道秩序是什么意思？要有大量的空间，不是吗？在一个没有空间的小房间里，更加难以保持秩序。你不同意吗？你会在一分钟内看到它。有人告诉我一个关于老鼠的实验：他们把很多老鼠放在一个非常小的空间里，因为没有空间，他们开始互相残杀 —— 母亲杀死了她的孩子。但我们内心也需要空间。越来越多的城市变得拥挤不堪。你应该去印度，看一些大城市，比如加尔各答、孟买或德里 —— 你想象不出那里的情形：噪音、吆喝声、人山人海。他们就像街上的蚂蚁，没有空间，在暴乱中，急剧地增加。

Here we must have space; the house itself is limited in size, so what will you do? Outwardly there is limited space and also how are you going to have inward space? You understand what I mean by inward space? Our minds are so crowded with a thousand ideas there is no space at all, even between two thoughts, between two ideas; between two emotions there is no space, no interval. But unless you have space there is no order. Order means learning, doesn't it? Learning about everything. So, if somebody tells me I am a fool, I want to learn the truth of it; I want to find out. I don't merely resist it and say, "You're another." I want to see, I want to listen, to learn. Therefore, learning brings order and resistance brings disorder.

在这里，我们必须有空间；房子本身的空间有限，因此你会怎么做？外面的空间有限，而你怎么去拥有内在的空间？你明白我所说的内在空间是什么意思吗？我们的头脑里挤满了一千个想法，根本没有空间，即使在两个想法之间、两个观念之间、两种情绪之间，也没有空间，也没有间隙。但是，除非你有空间，否则，没有秩序。秩序意味着学习，不是吗？学习每一样东西。所以，如果有人说我是蠢货，我想去学习它的真假；我想找出来。我不仅仅去反抗并说：“你才是。” 我会去看、去听、去学习。所以，学习带来秩序，反抗带来失序。

So though outwardly I may not have space, because the world is getting more and more crowded, I want to see if I can have space inwardly. If I have no space inwardly, then I a bound to create disorder. What do you say to this? Here we are, a group of teenagers and they revolt against the established order, which is natural, inevitable. We have come here with those ideas, those feelings, and anybody who tells us anything we call "authoritarian". So what are we going to do?

所以，尽管在外面我可能没有空间，因为世界越来越拥挤，我想看看，我能不能有内在的空间。如果我的里面没有空间，那么我必然受到约束，并制造出失序。你对此有什么看法？我们在这里，一群青少年，他们反抗既定的秩序，这是自然的、不可避免的。我们带着那些想法、那些感觉来到这里；任何人告诉我们的任何一件事情，我们都称它为“独裁”。因此，我们要怎么做？

How do we live differently here, act differently, be happy differently? Otherwise, you know what is going to happen? You will be thrown into the jungle of the world, thrown to a lot of wolves and you will be destroyed. In India, about three to four thousand people apply for every job. You understand what that means? They advertised for a cook and do you know who applied? - BAs, MAs and PhDs! And it is going to get worse, right throughout the world.

我们如何在这里有不同的生活，有不同的行为，有不同的快乐？否则，你知道会发生什么吗？你会被扔到这个世界丛林中，被扔给很多狼，你会被摧毁。在印度，每份工作大约有三到四千人申请。你理解那什么意思吗？他们在招聘厨师，你知道谁在申请吗？—— 学士、硕士和博士！而且它会变得更糟，整个世界都是这样。

So at a school of this kind we have to learn. I am using the word "learn" in the right sense: to find out, explore relationship, because after all that is how we live. Society is the relationship between man and man. And it is essential that we learn here how to live, what relationship is, what love is. We must learn, not just say, "This is love" or, "That's not love" or, "This is authority", "That's not authority" - all those absurd statements have no meaning. But if we can actually learn together, then I think that this school has some meaning.

所以在这样的学校，我们必须学习。我使用“学习”这个词是指恰当的含义：去找出、探索关系，毕竟那就是我们的生活方式。社会是人与人之间的关系。我们必须在这里学习如何生活、什么是关系、什么是爱。我们必须学习，而不是只在那里说，“这是爱”、“那不是爱”、“这是权威”、“那不是权威” —— 所有这些荒谬的陈述都没有意义。但是，如果我们真正地能共同学习，那么，我想这个学校就有某些意义。

In India, at the school in the south, there are little boys from the ages of six up to eighteen, and we talk about everything. In India the word "meditation" is a tremendous word. There meditation has some meaning. And while I was talking about it, there they were, a whole group of boys, and yet they sat completely still. It was extraordinary how they did it! They shut their eyes, sat cross-legged and were absolutely quiet. It is part of the tradition there that you must meditate - whatever that may mean to them. You must sit quite still, and you must have a good feeling about life... So how are we, all of us, going to create this together? Not you alone, or Mrs. Simmons, or me - but all of us together. How can we do this?

在印度的某个南方的学校里，那里有六到十八岁的小孩们，我们无所不谈。在印度，“冥想”这个词是一个广大的词。冥想有一定的意义。当我正在谈论它时，他们在那里，一整群孩子，但他们完全坐着不动。他们是如何做到的，真是非同寻常！他们闭上眼睛，盘腿而坐，绝对安静。那里的传统是你必须冥想 —— 无论这对他们意味着什么。你必须安静地坐着，你必须对生命有很好的感觉…… 那么我们，这里的所有人，将如何共同创建这个学校？不是你一个人，也不是西蒙夫人，也不是我 —— 而是我们所有人。我们要怎么做这些？

K: Together. You know what the word "individual" means? - indivisible. An individual means one who is not divisible in himself. But we are divisible, we are broken up, we are not individuals. We are little fragments, broken, divided. Look, where does one feel completely secure, safe, protected? And you must have complete security.

克里希那穆提：一起。你知道“个人”这个词是什么意思吗？—— 不可分割的。个人是指在一个不可分割的人。但我们是分开的，我们被拆散了，我们不是个人。我们是细小的碎片，是破碎的，分开的。看，在哪个地方，一个人能感到彻底地可靠、安全、受到保护？您必须拥有彻底的安全。

K: Yes, and also at home, don't you? Home is supposed to be that place where you are completely safe, which you can trust, where you are protected. This is your home, isn't it? - for eight months of the year this is your home. But you don't feel secure here, do you?

克里希那穆提：是的，也就是自在、在家的感觉，不是吗？家应该是一个你拥有彻底的安全的地方，你可以信任的地方，你受到保护的地方。这儿是你的家，不是吗？ —— 一年中有八个月，这是您的家。但是，你在这儿有没有感到安全，你有吗？

K: Do you? That's good. But do you all? See what it means to be completely at home, where you are completely secure. The brain demands security; otherwise it can't function efficiently, clearly. It is only when the brain cells feel insecure that one becomes neurotic; one goes off balance. And this a place where you are at home, where you are completely safe.

克里希那穆提：你有吗？那挺好的。但是，你们都有吗？看到“完全地自在”意味着什么，在那里，您彻底地安全。大脑需要安全；否则它不能有效地、明晰地运转。只有当脑细胞感到不安全时，它才会变得神经质；才会失去平衡。这是一个您感觉自在的地方，在这里您是彻底安全的。

K: I'm coming to that. One needs safety, protection, trust, confidence and a feeling that you can do anything without destroying this. In a place like this you don't feel at home in that sense, do you? Who is going to make it for you? You understand what I'm talking about? Who is going to provide you with this environment of complete protection? I don't think you understand it. Do you know what it means, to be completely protected? You know how a baby needs complete protection, otherwise it cries? It must have its food regularly, it must be washed, taken care of, otherwise it is harmed. Now we are growing up and who is going to provide this home for us? Mrs. Simmons, or somebody like me? The day after tomorrow I'm gone. So who is going to provide it for us?

克里希那穆提：我正要说那个问题。一个人需要安全、保护、信任、信心和一种你可以在不破坏它的情况下做任何事情的感觉。在这样的地方，你没有那种在家的感觉，你有吗？谁来为你营造它？你明白我在说什么吗？谁来为你提供这种完全地受到保护的环境？我不认为你理解它。你知道它的意思吗？完全地受到保护意味着什么？你可知道：婴儿需要完全地保护，否则它就会哭？它必须定期进食，必须清洗，照顾，否则会受到伤害。现在，我们长大了，谁来为我们提供这个家？西蒙夫人，或者像我这样的人？后天我就离开了。那么，谁来为我们提供它呢？

K: You are going to create it yourselves, you are going to build it. And if you don't build it, it is your fault. You can't say to Mrs. Simmons, "I want complete security and you are not providing it for me." This is your home and you are building it, you are creating it. If you don't feel at home here it is your fault. Find out about it, bring it about. Bring about this feeling that you are completely at home.

克里希那穆提：你要亲自创建它，你要建造它。如果你不建造它，就是你的错。你不能对西蒙夫人说： “我想要彻底的安全，而你却没有为我提供。” 这是你的家，你正在建造它，你正在创造它。如果你在这里没有家的感觉，那是你的错。去找，把它带来。把这种您完全在家的感觉带来。

Q: Could you go into this question of security because I think we don't understand it. Security for what? Not security for an idea. You see, we identify ourselves with an idea.

发问者：你能不能进入这个安全问题，因为我认为我们不理解它。让什么安全？不是一个关于安全的想法。你看，我们认同一个想法。

K: No! Security, feeling completely safe, security not with ideas but with people. Don't you know what it means?

克里希那穆提：不！安全，感到彻底地安全，安全与想法无关，而是与人相伴。 你不知道它是什么意思吗？

Q: (2) It's something we don't know. Some of us have come here because we have ideas about it.

发问者2：它是某个我们不知道的东西。我们中的某些人来到这里，是因为我们对它抱有想法。

K: First of all look! I haven't studied neurology and the structure of the brain, but just watch yourself and you can easily find out. Where the brain feels completely at rest, safe, protected, it functions perfectly, beautifully. Have you ever tried it? It thinks very clearly, can learn very quickly, everything functions beautifully, without friction - that is safety. That is to be completely secure. The brain cells themselves feel there is no conflict. Why should you be in conflict with me or I with you?

克里希那穆提：首先，看！我没有研究过神经病学和大脑的结构，但只要观察你自己，你就可以很容易地发现。在大脑感到完全地放松、安全、受到保护的地方，它运转得完美而优雅。你有没有尝试过吗？它思考得很清晰，可以很快学会，一切都运行得很优美，没有摩擦 —— 那就是安全。那是彻底地安全。脑细胞本身没有冲突的感觉。在我和你之间，为什么有冲突？

When you tell me: "Keep the room in order", why should I feel, "Oh, how terrible"? Why shouldn't I be told that? But it creates a conflict in me. Why? Because I have stopped learning. Are we meeting each other? It is your home and you have to build it, not somebody else. It is where you feel completely safe, otherwise you can't learn properly, otherwise you reduce this place to something just like the outside world, where each one is against the other. Safety means the brain cells themselves are in perfect harmony, in perfect equilibrium, in a sense of being healthy, quiet. That is home; and this place is your home. If you don't make it so, it is your fault. And if you see disorder in your own room, you have to make order there because it is your home.

当你告诉我：“保持房间整洁”时，我为什么会觉得“哼，可恶”？为什么我不应该被告知那？然而，它在我的心中造成了冲突。为什么？因为我已经停止学习了。我们相互理解吗？它是你的家，你必须建造它，而不是别人。它是你感到彻底安全的地方，否则，你就不能恰当地学习，否则你就会把这个地方简化成一个和外面的社会一样的地方，一个人与人之间互相抗争的地方。安全意味着脑细胞本身处于完美的和谐状态，处于完美的平衡状态，处于一种健康、安静的感觉中。那是家；而这个地方就是你的家。如果你不这样做，那就是你的错。如果你看到你自己房间处于失序的状态，你必须让它保持秩序，因为它是你的家。

So you can never say, "I'm going to leave this place," because it's your home (though you may have to leave it one day). Do you know what that does when you feel completely at home, without fear, where you are open, where you are trusting? Not that you must have trust in somebody, but have the capacity of trusting, of generosity - it doesn't matter what the other does. I don't know if you are following all this?

所以你永远不会说： “我要离开这个地方”，因为这是你们的家（尽管有一天，你可能不得不离开它）。当您感到完全自在、没有恐惧、处于一个使你敞开心扉、值得信赖的地方的时候，您知道那是什么吗？不是说你必须信任某人，而是具有信任和宽容的能力 —— 不管别人做什么事情。我不知道你有没有跟上所有这些？

发问者：当你说，“不管别人做什么事情”，你是指什么意思？

克里希那穆提：看，你告诉我某些事情。你为什么要告诉我？

K: No, no. Why do you or Mrs. Simmons tell me to keep my room in order? Before I say that I will or I won't, find out why you are telling me that.

克里希那穆提：不，不。为什么您或西蒙夫人要告诉我，要保持我的房间整洁？在我说“我会”或者“我不会”之前，先弄清楚你为什么这么对我说。

K: No. You haven't understood my question. Do listen to it before you answer. I've told you ten times to keep your room in order and the eleventh time I get irritated. Then you say I'm bossy. Now, why have I told you this at all? Find out why. Is it because I want to express my egotism, my idea of what order is, my idea that you should behave in this way? Saying, "Go to bed", "Be punctual", imposing my idea on your idea. You answer, "Why should I keep my room in order? Who are you? It is my room." So what takes place then?

克里希那穆提：不，你没有理解我的问题。你在回答之前，一定要听。我已经告诉过你十次要保持房间整洁，第十一次，我生气了。那时，你说我霸道。现在，我为什么要告诉你这些？找出为什么。是因为我想表现我的自负，表现我关于“什么是秩序”的观念，表现“我认为你应该这样做”的想法？说，“去睡觉”，“要守时”，把我的想法强加给你。你回答说：“我为什么要保持我的房间整洁？你是谁？这是我的房间。” 那么，接下来会发生什么？

K: It means, really, that you don't feel at home. You are not learning. Right? Conflict exists only when you are not learning. You come and tell me : "Keep your room in order", and I listen to you, I learn. And you also find out why you are telling me. Do you follow what I mean? If you want to burn the place down... it's your home. If you want to keep the gardens, the house, the rooms untidy and have a messy way of eating, well, it's your home. But if somebody tells me: "Don't put your feet on the table when you're eating", I say "Quite right." I learn.

克里希那穆提：是的，这真地意味着你没有在家的感觉。你没有在学习。对吗？只有当你不学习时，冲突才会存在。你走过来告诉我：“让你的房间保持整洁”，我听到你的话，我学习。同时，你也清楚你为什么要告诉我。你明白我的意思吗？如果你想烧掉这个地方……它是你的家。如果你想让花园、房子、房间不整洁，让你的吃相邋遢，好吧，它是你的家。但是如果某个人告诉我：“吃饭时不要把脚放在桌子上”，我会说“非常正确”。我学习。

K: Oh no. Please don't extend it. It is not "my country". I am talking about a home. If somebody tells me it is my country and for that country I must kill someone, that's sheer nonsense...

克里希那穆提：哦不。请不要扩展它。它不是“我的国家”。我在说的是一个家。如果有人告诉我这是我的国家，为了那个国家我必须杀某些人，那完全是胡说八道……

K: We are discussing a school, living together here. If I know how to live here, learn here, then I will know what to do when the Government or the State says: "Go and kill somebody." If I don't know how to learn to live, I shan't be able to reply properly.

克里希那穆提：我们正在讨论一所学校，一起住在这里。如果我知道如何在这里生活，在这里学习，当政府或国家说：“去杀人”的时候，我就会知道该怎么做。如果我不知道如何学习生活，我将无法正确地回应。

Q: There's something I don't really have straight. If I walk around and I don't wear shoes and somebody says, "You should wear shoes..."

发问者：有些东西我真的不明白。如果我不穿鞋走来走去，有人说：“你应该穿鞋……”

K: What happens? You don't wear shoes and I come along and say, "Please put on your shoes."

克里希那穆提：发生了什么？你不穿鞋，我走过来说，“请穿上你的鞋子。”

K: Find out why I am asking you to. There are two people concerned, aren't there - you and I. I am asking you to put on your shoes. Why? Either I am conventional, or I want to boss you, or I see your feet are dirty, you'll dirty the carpet, or because it doesn't look nice to have dirty feet. I want to see that you understand what I am talking about.

克里希那穆提：找出我这样要求的原因。有两个关切的人，不是吗？ —— 你和我。我要求你穿上鞋子。为什么？要么我很传统，要么我想欺负你，要么我看到你的脚脏了，你会把地毯弄脏，要么是因为脏脚不好看。我想让你理解我在说什么。

K: Yes, that's why I am telling you. I'm not telling you because I'm orthodox, you follow? I explain all this to you and you resist and say, "Why not? I did it at home, why not here?" Because here it's a different country, a different climate. And the crowd round about you, the neighbours, say: "What's the matter with all those people there, going about half naked?" You set up a bad reputation. You see all that is involved in it. So you have to learn about all this, which does not mean that you conform to the bourgeois.

克里希那穆提：是的，那就是我告诉你的原因。我不是因为顺从传统才告诉你的，你跟上了吗？我向你解释了这一切，你反抗说：“为什么不？我在家里就这样做的，为什么在这里就不能做？” 因为这里是一个不同的国家，有不同的气候。在你周围的人们，邻居们，说：“那里的那些人几乎半裸，到底出了什么问题？” 你树立了一个坏名声。你会看到其中涉及的所有内容。所以关于这一切，你都必须学习，这并不意味着你在顺从资产阶级。

Q: I don't understand. If you're worried about what the others think, the others on the outside...

发问者：我不理解。如果您担心其他人的想法，那么外面的其他人...

K: I'm not worried. I'm living in the world. If the outside people give this place a bad reputation, what happens?

克里希那穆提：我不担心。我活在这个世界上。如果外面的人给这个地方一个不好的名声，会发生什么？

K: That's it. You will soon have to close the place. There are nasty people in the world.

克里希那穆提：就是那样。您很快将不得不关闭这个地方。世界上有的是讨厌的人。

K: That's just it. So learn about it! Don't say: "Why shouldn't I do what I like, to hell with the outside world, they're stupid." I have to learn, I have to live in the stupid world.

克里希那穆提：正是如此。所以，学习它！不要说：“为什么我不应该做我喜欢的事情，外面的社会去死吧，他们很愚蠢。” 我必须学习，我必须生活在这个愚蠢的社会上。

To come back to the point. How are we, each one of us, going to make this our home? It's your job! Home means where you have energy, where you are creative, where you are happy, where you are active, where you are alive and not just learning from some book or other.

回到正题。我们每个人如何使这里成为我们的家？它是你的工作！家意味着：在那里你有能量、有创造力、你感到快乐、活跃、充满了生机的地方，而不仅仅是一个学习本书或其它东西的地方。

I have been travelling, talking, for the last fifty years. I go from country to country, from a room to a different room, different food, different climate. Wherever I am that little room is my home. You understand? I'm at home, I feel completely safe because I have no resistance.

在过去的五十年里，我一直在旅行、交谈。我从一个国家到另一个国家，从一个房间到另一个房间，有不同的食物，不同的气候。无论我在哪里，那个小房间就是我的家。你理解吗？我在家，我感到彻底地安全，因为我没有阻力。

So how are you going to make this place into your home from today? If you don't, will you allow someone to tell you that you don't? If I come along and say, "Look, you are not making this into your home", will you listen to me then? Or will you say: "What do you mean? It is my home, I interpret 'home' in a different way from you." You interpret the idea of home in one way and I interpret it in another way and we quarrel. Then it's not a home! The interpretation of an idea of what you consider to be a home does not bring about a home, but to have the real feeling of it - and that implies a certain yielding. Which doesn't mean that you accept authority.

那么，从今天起，您打算如何将这个地方变成您的家呢？如果你没有这样做，你会允许别人指出你没有这样做吗？如果我走过来说，“看，你没有把这里当成你的家”，你会听我说吗？或者你会说：“你什么意思？这是我的家，我对‘家’的解释和你的不同。” 你以一种方式解释家的概念，我以另一种方式解释它，我们吵架。那么，它就不是家！你对家的解释，并不能带来一个家，而是要对它有真实的感觉 —— 那意味着一定的让步。那并不意味着你在接受权威。

If someone wants to come here who says, "These are all a lot of rather immature children" (Sorry, but you are), "What's going on here?" - and he is a disturbing factor - how will you deal with him? Will you all say: "Let's vote for him. We like his face, his appearance, or whatever it is, and therefore we all agree that he should come"? Is that the reason you are going to accept him? He may be a drunkard; he may do all kinds of things. How will you act? These are the problems which you are going to have to face in life. Do you understand? How are you going to meet it all? Thank God I have no children - but I feel this very strongly here. You are going to leave this place and be thrown to the wolves and you are not capable of meeting all this. You think you are all very clever - but you're not.

如果某个人想到这儿来，并说“这些都是相当不成熟的孩子”（对不起，但你们就是）， “这里在发生什么？” —— 他是一个令人不安的因素 —— 你将如何处理他？你们会不会说：“让我们给他投票。我们喜欢他的脸，他的外表，或者其它什么的，所以我们都同意他应该来”？这就是你们要接受他的原因吗？他可能是个酒鬼；他可能做各种各样的事情。你将如何行动？这些都是你在生活中不得不面对的问题。你明白吗？你将如何面对这一切？感谢上帝，我没有孩子 —— 但我在这里非常强烈地感受到这一点。你要离开这个地方，被扔到狼群中，你无法应对这一切。你认为你们都很聪明 —— 但你不是。

So, how can we live here wisely, with care and affection, so that when you go out into the world you are prepared for the monstrous things that are happening? How will you bring about order in this house? Do please consider this seriously. As you pass by a room, if you see everything lying on the floor - what will you do?

那么，我们如何才能明智地、怀着关怀和感情，在这里生活，以便当您离开这里，踏入现实社会的时候，为正在发生的可怕的事情做好准备？你将如何给这间房子带来秩序？请认真考虑它。当你经过一个房间时，如果你看到所有东西都躺在地板上 —— 你会怎么做？

K: Yes, you tell me all that but I'm sleepy. I don't care. I don't learn. I am dull-witted. What are you going to do? Beat me up? And I consider it's my home too, as well as yours. What are you going to do with me?

克里希那穆提：是的，你告诉我所有这些，但我很困。我不在乎。我不学习。我脑残。你会怎样做？打我吗？而我认为它也是我的家，如同你的家。你要对我做什么？

You don't answer! It is your home, and if you have a room in disorder some part of the house is being destroyed. It's like setting fire to a house. What will you do?

你不回答！它是你的家，如果你的房间乱七八糟，这栋房子的一部分就会被毁坏。它就像放火烧一栋房子。你会怎么做？

K: You put it out every day and he lights it every day? Find out. Don't give it up. It's your life! (Pause.) What do you say, what do you do? It's your home and I dirty the floor every day. How are you going to deal with me?

克里希那穆提：他每天放火烧，你就每天都把它拿出来？找出来。不要放弃它。这是你的生命！（停顿。）你怎么说，你怎么去做？它是你的家，我每天都把地板弄脏。你打算怎么对付我？

Q: The problem is that somebody cares about it and somebody else doesn't care about it.

K: Yes. And I'll tell you all the reasons! You see, you're missing the point. I keep my room in disorder; there is dirt on the carpet, I dirty everything. What will you do with me? You have told me ten times and I go on doing it.

克里希那穆提：是的。我会告诉你所有的原因！你看，你没有抓住重点。我把房间弄得乱七八糟；地毯上有污垢，我弄脏了一切。你要把我怎么办？你已经告诉我十次了，而我继续在这样做。

K: What are you going to do? Don't say "no communication". You are all finding excuses. Let's put it another way. You are responsible, you are the Principal... what are you going to do?

克里希那穆提：你打算怎么做？不要说“没有沟通”。你们都在找借口。让我们换一种说法。你有责任，你是校长…… 你要怎么去做？

Q: It's as you say. If there is dirt and it's like a fire, there is no end to it. Either you say, "You are part of this home, you should take care of it" or, " You can't destroy the home".

发问者：正如你所说。如果有污垢，它就像火一样，是没有尽头的。要么你说，“你是这个家的一部分，你应该照顾它” 或者，“你不能破坏这个家”。

发问者：好吧，如果你觉得这是你的家，你会去做它，你不做吗？

K: Go into it. You will see. The moment I come here it's your responsibility to see that I understand what it means to feel at home. Not after making an awful mess of it. Perhaps you and I feel at home. But make the third person feel at home, then you will have order. But if you don't care and I don't care, then the other person says, "All right, I'll do as I like."

克里希那穆提：进去吧。你会看到。当我来到这里的那一刻，你有责任让理解什么是“在家的感觉”，而不是等到把它弄得一团糟之后。也许，你和我有在家的感觉。但是，让第三个人有在家的感觉，那么，你就会有秩序。但是如果你不在乎、我不在乎，那么对方就会说：“好吧，我会按照我的喜好来做。”

So all of us are going to bring about this feeling that it is our home. Not Mrs. Simmons going round putting everything in order and telling us what to do and what not to do. We are all doing it together. Do you know what vitality it will give you?

所以，我们所有人都会产生这种感觉，那就是‘它是我们的家’。不是西蒙夫人四处奔波，把一切都打理得井井有条，告诉我们该做什么和不该做什么。我们都得一起来做。你知道它会给你带来怎样的活力吗？

What energy you will have? Because now the energy is wasted in sentimental emotionalism and conflicts. When we feel that this is our home we will have tremendous vitality.

你会有什么样的能量？因为现在，能量被浪费在了多愁善感的情绪和冲突上。当我们感觉到这是我们的家，我们就会拥有巨大的活力。

K: Ah no - not your form of security and my form of security, but the feeling in which there is no fear. A feeling of being completely together. A sense of, "I can trust you", "I can tell you anything about myself." It's not my telling you in my own way or having particular idiosyncrasies, but I feel at home, I feel a sense of complete protection. Don't you know what it all means? Probably you don't feel this at home when you go back?

克里希那穆提：啊！不！ —— 不是你的安全形式和我的安全形式，而是这种没有恐惧的感觉。一种完全在一起的感觉。一种“我可以信任你”、“我可以告诉你关于我自己的任何事情”的感觉。不是我用我自己的方式告诉你，也不是我有什么特别的癖好，而是我有在家的感觉，我感受到一种完全地被保护的感觉。你不知道这一切意味着什么吗？当你回家后，你难道没有这种感觉吗？

Q: Well, when you go home you feel at home. I think I do. But I don't keep my room that neat. When I come here, I don't know why I should be so neat here.

发问者：嗯，当你回家时，你有在家的感觉。我想我有。但我的房间没有那么整洁。来到这里，我不知道为什么我要在这里这么整洁。

K: It s not a question of neatness. First, it's the feeling. As we have said, one functions better when one feels completely safe, and most of us don't feel safe anywhere because we build a wall of resistance round ourselves, we have isolated ourselves. In that isolation we may feel safe, but that isolation can be broken into at any time. Now, is there the feeling of having no resistance? I don't know if you understand this? When we are really friends, when I love you and you love me - not sex and all that - but really feeling together, then we are safe, aren't we? You will protect me and I will protect you in the sense of working together, but not in the sense of resisting others. Now, can't we live like this? Can't we create that feeling here? Otherwise, what's the point of all this? Can't we have a sense of well-being, a sense of caring, of affection, love? Surely, then we shall create something totally new!

克里希那穆提：它不是整洁的问题。首先，它是这种感觉。正如我们所说，当一个人感到彻底地安全时，一个人的功能会发挥得更好，而我们大多数人在任何地方都没有感到安全，因为我们在自己的周围筑起了一道抵抗之墙，我们在孤立自己。在那种孤立中，我们可能会感到安全，但这种孤立随时都可能被打破。现在，有没有不抵抗的感觉？我不知道你是否理解了这一点？当我们成为真正的朋友，当我爱你而你爱我时 —— 不是性爱之类的 —— 而是真正在一起的感觉，那么我们就安全了，不是吗？在一起工作的那种氛围下，你会保护我，我会保护你，但不是那种抵制他人的氛围下。现在，我们不能像这样生活？难道我们不能在这里创造出这种感觉吗？否则，这一切的意义何在？难道我们不能拥有一种健康的、关怀的、有感情和爱的氛围吗？当然可以，那样，我们将创造某些全新的东西！

Look what happens. A mother brings up a baby. Think of the care - months and months of getting up at two o'clock at night; and then as the children grow up they are pushed out. Society swallows them up and sends them to Vietnam or somewhere else. And here there is this sense of being so safe. And you have to create it because it's your home, your furniture, your books, your food, your carpet. You understand?

看看在发生什么。一位母亲抚养一个婴儿。想想其中的关怀 —— 月复一月的半夜两点起床；接着，随着孩子们长大，他们被推出去。社会把他们吞掉，送到越南或其他地方。而这里，这种如此安全的感觉。你必须创造它，因为它是你的家、你的家具、你的书、你的食物、你的地毯。你理解吗？

I know a man who said to his daughter: "You are going to get married and I know what that means. You will always be in trouble, you will be in strife with your husband and all the rest of it. But here you always have a room. It's your home." Do you know what happened? There was tremendous trouble between husband and wife. But she used to come to this room and become quiet, rest, and be happy in it, even if only for a little while. I used to know the family fairly well.

我认识一个人，他对他的女儿说： “你要结婚了，我知道这意味着什么。你总会遇到麻烦，你会和你的丈夫或其他事情发生冲突。但在这里，你总是有一个房间。它是你的家。” 你可知道发生了什么？夫妻之间有很多的麻烦。但她常常来到这个房间，变得安静、放松、快乐，哪怕只是一小会儿。我曾经对这个家庭相当地了解。

Q: When one has accomplished this feeling of being at home, one is at home anywhere.

发问者：当一个人完成了这种在家的感觉时，一个人在任何地方都能有这种感觉。

克里希那穆提：那么从这里开始。然后，您将在任何地方都有家的感觉。

K: But if you don't know what the feeling is now, when you are young, and don't create it, then later on it is too late.

克里希那穆提：但是，如果你不知道现在的感觉是什么，当你年轻的时候，不去创造它，那么之后，就太晚了。

Do you know anything about meditation? You are interested in sex, aren't you? You are interested in being entertained; you are interested in learning geography, history - interested casually. You are interested in many things, aren't you? Meditation is part of life; don't say it's something outside for some silly people. It's part of existence, so you must know about it as you must know about mathematics, electronics or whatever it is. Do you know what it means to meditate? The dictionary meaning of the word is "to ponder", "to think over", "to ruminate", "to enquire into". Shall we talk a little about it?

你对冥想有什么了解吗？你对性感兴趣，是吗？你对娱乐有兴趣；你有时候 —— 对学习地理、历史感兴趣。你对很多事情都感兴趣，不是吗？冥想是生命的一部分；不要说这是一些愚蠢的人在外面做的事情。它是存在的一部分，所以你必须知道它，就像你必须知道数学、电子学或其他任何东西一样。你知道冥想意味着什么吗？这个词的字典意思是“沉思”、“考量”、“反刍”、“探究”。我们可以稍微谈一下它吗？

When you sit very quietly, or lie down very quietly, the body is completely relaxed, isn't it? Have you ever tried to sit very, very quietly? Not to force it, because the moment you force it, it is finished. To sit very quietly, either with your eyes closed or open. If you have your eyes open there is a little more distraction, you begin to see things. So, after looking at things, the curve of the tree, the leaves, the bushes, after looking at it all with care, then close your eyes. Then you will not say to yourself, "What's happening, let me look." First look at everything - the furniture, the colour of the chair, the colour of the sweater, look at the shape of the tree. After having looked, the desire to look out is less. I've seen that blue sky and I've finished with it and I won't look again. But you must first look. Then you can sit quietly. When you sit quietly, or lie down very quietly, the blood flows easily into your head, doesn't it? There is no strain. That's why they say you must sit cross-legged with head very straight, because the blood flows easier that way. If you sit crouched it is more difficult for the blood to go into the head. So you sit or lie down very, very quietly. Don't force it, don't fidget. If you fidget, then watch it, don't say, "I must not." Then, when you sit very quietly, you watch your mind. First, you watch the mind. Don't correct it. Don't say, "This thought is good, that thought is not good" just watch it. Then you will see that there is a watcher and the watched. There is a division. The moment there is a division there is conflict.

当你非常安静地坐着，或者非常安静地躺下时，身体处于完全放松的状态，不是吗？你有没有试过非常非常安静地坐着？不要强迫它，因为在你强迫的那一刻，它就结束了。非常安静地坐着，可以闭上眼睛或睁开眼睛。如果你睁开眼睛，会有稍微多一点的干扰，你会开始看那些东西。所以，在看过那些东西之后，树木的曲线、树叶、灌木，仔细看过之后，然后闭上眼。这样你就不会对自己说：“在发生什么事，让我看看。” 首先，观看一切的物品 —— 家具、椅子的颜色、毛衣的颜色，看树的形状。看过之后，看的欲望就减弱了。我看过那片蓝天，我已经看完了，我不会再看。但你必须先看。然后你就可以安静地坐着。当您安静地坐着或非常安静地躺下时，血液很容易流入您的头部，不是吗？没有压力。这就是为什么他们说你必须盘腿坐着，头要非常直，因为那样血液更容易流动。如果你蹲着坐，血液更难流入头部。所以你非常非常安静地坐下或躺下。不要强迫它，不要坐立不安。如果你烦躁，那就观察它，不要说，“我不要烦躁。” 然后，当你非常安静地坐着时，你观察你的头脑。首先，你观察头脑。不要纠正它。不要说“这个念头好，那个念头不好”，只是看。然后你会看到有一个观察者和被观察者。其中有划分。一但有了划分，就会有冲突。

Now, can you watch without the watcher? Is there a watching without the watcher? It is the watcher that says, "This is good and that is bad", "This I like and that I don't like" or, "I wish she hadn't said this or that", "I wish I had more food". watch without the watcher - try it some time. That's part of meditation. Just begin with that. That's good enough. And you will see, if you have done it, what an extraordinary thing takes place... your body becomes very, very intelligent. Now the body is not intelligent because we have spoiled it. You understand what I mean? We have destroyed the natural intelligence of the body itself. Then you will find that the body says: "Go to bed at the right time." It wants it, it has its own intelligence and activity. And also if it wants to be lazy, let it be lazy.

现在，你可以在没有观察者的情况下观看吗？存在没有观察者的观察吗？那个观察者在说，“这个好，那个坏”，“这个我喜欢，那个我不喜欢”，或者，“我希望她没有说过这或那”，“我希望我有更多食物”。在没有观察者的情况下观看 —— 尝试一段时间。那是冥想的一部分。就那样开始吧。那已经足够好了。你会看到，如果你这样做了，会发生多么奇妙的事情…… 你的身体变得非常非常有智慧。现在，这个身体没有智慧，因为我们已经糟蹋了它。你理解我的意思吗？我们已经破坏了身体本身的自然智能。然后，你会发现身体说：“在合适的时间睡觉。” 它想要睡觉，它有自己的智慧和活动。如果它想偷懒，就让它偷懒。

Oh, you don't know what all this means! You try it. When I come back in April we'll sit down together twice a week and go into all this, shall we? Good! I feel you ought to leave this place highly intelligent. Not just pass some exams, but be tremendously intelligent, aware, beautiful persons. At least that is how I feel for you.

哦，你不知道这一切意味着什么！你试一下。当我四月回来时，我们会一起坐下来，每周花两次来讨论这一切，好吗？好的！我觉得你应该非常有智慧地离开这个地方。而不只是通过某些考试，还要成为非常有智慧、有觉察、美丽的人。至少我对你的感觉是那样的。