the beginning of learning 学习入门
K: The other day we were discussing what Brockwood Park is trying to do. We were saying that it has come into being in order to bring about intelligence, if that is possible. The word "intelligence" means having the faculty of understanding - to understand not only each other, but also what cooperation means, what freedom, what discipline and order mean. We said intelligence implies freedom. That freedom is not yours or mine - but freedom. Let's be very clear on this point. Please stop me if you don't understand. Don't be silent and then say afterwards, "I disagree with you." We are trying to find out together.
克里希那穆提：前些日子，我们在讨论这个学校在尝试做什么。 我们说，它的出现是为了带来智慧，如果有可能的话。 “智慧”这个词意味着拥有理解的能力 —— 不仅要理解彼此，还有合作、自由、纪律和秩序的含义。 我们说，智慧意味着自由。那种自由不是你的，也不是我的 —— 而是自由本身。 在这一点上，必须非常清楚。如果你不理解，请让我停下。 不要保持沉默，之后又说，“我不同意你。” 我们正在尝试一起去寻找。
As we happen to be a small community, what does it mean to live together intelligently? Obviously the first thing is that there should be freedom between you and me and the others. Freedom doesn't mean doing what you want to do, because if each one of us did what he wanted there would be chaos here. Or a few of you would form a group thinking this is what we want to do in freedom, as opposed to another group. That is not freedom either.
碰巧，我们是一个小社区，智慧地生活在一起，意味着什么？ 显然，第一件事是你我和其他人之间应该有自由。 自由并不意味着做你想做的事，因为，如果我们每个人都做他想做的事，这里将会是一片混乱。 或者你们中的一些人会组成一个小组，并且认为，在自由中，这就是我们想要做的，从而与另一个小组相对立。 那也不是自由。
You may say, "I think it is freedom to do what I like, because at home I do what I like, there is nobody to say 'don't do it', and if they did I would revolt, get angry, run away." To do what one likes is really quite impossible. Because what one likes may be temporary, a passing desire, and if we all did what we liked without considering the others, we couldn't live together. So intelligence implies freedom to find out how to live together. You don't impose on me and I don't impose on you. Do see the responsibilities. And freedom implies that together we understand what the implications of authority are. If I sit up late and you tell me it's time to go to bed, don't call that authoritarian: that would be unintelligent. Because both of us have gone into the question of going to bed at a fixed hour, we have agreed. Our relationship then is not authoritarian, not nagging, but through intelligence. We have discussed what time to go to bed and intelligence is telling us, not authority. If I react to your telling me in a friendly way or with annoyance - whether you tell me rudely or politely - it is my lack of intelligence. I don't know if you see that.
你可能会说，“我认为：做我喜欢做的事就是自由， 因为在家里我做我喜欢做的事，没有人说‘不要做’， 如果他们那样做，我就会反抗、生气、逃跑。” 做自己喜欢做的事，真的是不可能的。 因为一个人喜欢的事情，可能是暂时的、一闪而过的欲望， 如果我们都做自己喜欢的事情而不考虑其他人，我们就无法一起生活。 因此，智慧意味着去探索如何自由地一起生活。 你不强加于我，我也不强加于你。真实地看到这些责任。 自由意味着我们都理解权威的这种含义。 如果我熬夜，而你告诉我该睡觉了，不要称之为权威：那是不明智的。 因为我们俩都想通了这个问题，并同意要按时睡觉。 因此我们之间的关系不是专制的，不是在唠叨，而是通过智慧建立的。 我们已经讨论过什么时候睡觉，智慧告诉了我们，而不是权威。 如果我反对你，无论我是以友好的方式，或者恼怒的方式反对 —— 无论你是粗鲁的，还是礼貌的告诉我 —— 那都是我缺乏智慧的表现。 我不知道你是否看到了那一点。
Q: There is also a lack of intelligence in a person who tells me abruptly.
发问者：一个人突然地告诉我，这人也缺乏智慧。
K: Of course, none of us is completely intelligent. We are learning - learning the nature, the quality of intelligence. I get angry and say things, and I am aware that I am silly, which is part of intelligence. Next time I will be careful, I will be watchful. So you see, cooperation is an understanding of intelligence.
克里希那穆提：当然，我们都不是完全智慧的。 我们在学习 —— 学习智慧的性质和特性。 我生气了，说了一些气话，然后觉察到我犯傻了，这就是智慧的一部分。 下次我会小心，我会仔细观察。所以，你看，合作就是对智慧的理解。
Q: I wonder who is seeing, who is watching?
发问者：我想知道谁在看，谁在观察？
K: Yourself. I am angry with you, I say, "Please go to bed at eleven, I have told you ten times." I get irritated and I say to myself, "How silly of me to get irritated with a person who hasn't got the intelligence to see and after discussing it is still late." I see I've got angry. What's the difficulty?
克里希那穆提：你自己。我生你的气，我说：“请你十一点睡觉，我已经跟你说过十次了。” 我被激怒了，我对我自己说：“跟一个没有智慧的人生气，我真愚蠢。” 我看到我生气了。这里的困难是什么？
Q: I am wondering if it's possible to look without the conditioning - the watcher is still in the conditioning.
发问者：我想知道，可以在没有局限的情况下去看吗 —— 这位观察者仍然在这局限之中。
K: No, don't go into the complex problem of the observer. We'll come to that a little later, I'm not disregarding what you're saying, but we are talking now of the quality of intelligence that cooperates.
克里希那穆提：不，不要进入关于观察者的这个复杂的问题。 我们稍后再谈，我不是忽略你所说的话， 但我们现在谈论的是智慧的品质：合作。
Q: If someone says you are authoritarian, of course that's a reaction; but it is also a reaction to get angry. So why not say, "Don't be angry."
发问者：如果有人说你在搞专制，那当然是一种反抗；但这也是生气的一种反应。 因此，为什么不说，“不要生气。”
K: Of course. We are living together, we are trying to see, to help each other, learn from each other. If you refuse to learn because you think you are better, what are we going to do? The younger people think they know everything; what are you going to do if they say, "I disagree with you" and stick to it.
克里希那穆提：当然可以。我们生活在一起，我们尝试去看，互相帮助，互相学习。 如果你拒绝去学校，认为你自己比别人更优秀，我们该怎么做？ 年轻人认为他们什么都知道； 如果他们说“我不同意你”并坚持下去，你会怎么做？
Q: We're going to go into it.
发问者：我们将进入它。
K: But if they refuse to go into it.
克里希那穆提：但如果他们拒绝进入。
Q: That's what we are doing now, laying the foundations for that.
发问者：那就是我们现在正在做的，为此而奠定基础。
K: That's just it, we are trying to lay the foundations so that we can live together intelligently. Not, you live intelligently and you tell me; or I tell you, but together. It's our responsibility together to be intelligent. Now what does that word mean? According to the dictionary it means to understand, to have the faculty of understanding.
克里希那穆提：是的，我们正在努力打基础，以便于我们可以智慧地生活在一起。 不是你活得有智慧，然后你再告诉我，也不是我来告诉你，而是一起。 生活在智慧中，是我们共同的责任。 现在，这个词是什么意思？ 根据字典，它的意思是理解，具有理解的能力。
Q: To choose between different courses is what it literally means.
发问者：“在不同的道路之间进行选择”，这是它的字面意思。
K: Yes, you must have the faculty to choose and that faculty must be intelligent. If I choose out of prejudice it's not intelligence. So if we are laying the foundations of an environment in which our principal concern is to live together intelligently, this demands not only freedom, but self-critical awareness. I must be aware of what I am doing, why I'm doing it, of the consequence of that action; not be obstinate and say, "This is right! This is what I think! I'll stick to it." Then you stop learning, then we have no relationship.
克里希那穆提：是的，你必须拥有选择的能力，而且，那种能力必须是智慧的。 如果我出于偏见而去选择，它就不是智慧。 因此，如果我们要奠定一个环境的基础，那么，我们首先要考虑的，就是一起智慧地生活， 这不仅需要自由，还需要自我批评的意识。 我必须清楚自己在做什么，为什么要这样做，以及那样做的后果； 而不是固执地说，“这是对的！这就是我的想法！我会坚持它。” 那么，你就停止学习了，那样一来，我们就断绝了关系。
Do you see this? Don't agree with me unless you really see it. My problem is: we want to live here happily, freely and intelligently, which we can't do in the world, because the world is brutal, thoughtless. Here we want to create an atmosphere, an environment, build a foundation where we live together, happily, intelligently, in cooperation. I am explaining what intelligent living together means. Find out, don't be silent and then go your own way afterwards. Discuss with me, so that we both learn what it is to be intelligent and live together in cooperation. Intelligence implies the faculty of understanding freedom, and all of us want to be free. We don't want to be under the control of any tyranny, whether of the family or of someone else. And we are trying to find out how to live together freely. I can stay by myself in my loneliness, in my room, dissociated from everybody; that may be what I call my freedom, but I can't live that way. We are human beings in relationship with each other, therefore we must understand what it means to live together in freedom. And that demands intelligence.
你看到这一点吗？除非你真的看到，否则不要同意我。 我的问题是：我们想要在这里快乐、自由、智慧地生活， 这是我们在这个世界上做不到的，因为这个世界是残酷的，不顾及他人的。 在这里，我们要营造一种氛围、一种环境，打下一个基础， 在这个基础上，在合作中，我们能一起快乐地、智慧地生活。 我在阐释“一起智慧地生活”的含义。 找出来，不要沉默，然后走回自己的老路。 和我讨论，让我们一起学习什么是‘在合作中，智慧地生活’。 智慧意味着这种理解自由的能力，我们所有人都想要自由。 我们不想受到任何暴政的控制，无论是家里的人，还是其他人。 我们正在尝试寻找如何自由地一起生活。 我可以一个人待在我的孤独中，待在我的房间里，与所有人隔绝； 那可能就是我所说的自由，但我不能那样生活。 我们是彼此关联的人类， 因此，我们必须理解“在自由中，一起生活”意味着什么。 那就需要智慧。
Now, how are we going to do this? You might have an idea of freedom and I have another idea of it. So I say to myself, "I don't know what it means, I'm going to find out." You see the difference? If you start by saying, "I know what freedom means", it is finished - I don't know if you see this? - then you are not intelligent enough to learn about it.
现在，我们将如何到达这一点？你可能对自由有一个想法，而我对它有另一个想法。 所以我对我自己说，“我不知道自由意味着什么，我去找。” 你看出这种区别了吗？ 如果你在一开始就说，“我知道自由意味着什么”，那就结束了 —— 我不知道你是否看到了这一点？ —— 那么，你就没有足够的智慧去学习它。
Q: You are living in your own tyranny then.
发问者：那样，你就活在你自己的暴政中。
K: Of course, you are living in your own soup, which is not very interesting. So we must both understand what it means to be free. Do you want to learn about it? Or do you say, "Don't teach me, I know all about it." When you say that you are already unintelligent, because you are not learning, you are fixed in your idea of what you think is freedom. I want to learn what it means to live together in freedom; therefore the first thing is not to say to myself, "I know what it means." So do you want to learn what freedom means? Because that's what we want to do at Brockwood.
克里希那穆提：是的，你生活在你自己的浆糊里，那可不是很有趣。 所以，我们都必须理解自由意味着什么。你想学习它吗？ 还是你说，“别教我，我都知道。” 当你说出这样的话，你就已经不明智了， 因为你没有在学习，你固执地抓住你所认为的“自由”。 我想学习什么是‘在自由中一起生活’； 因此，首先不要对自己说，“我知道它是什么意思。” 那么你想学习“自由”的含义吗？因为，那就是我们想在这儿做的事情。
I'll show you why. In freedom you can discover new things. In the world of science there must be freedom to discover new things. In human relationship, here, we are discovering, or learning, new things about ourselves. If I am fixed in my opinion, I can't learn. So I must be very careful, be aware of my fixed opinions or judgments; because this is what the world is doing and it's not learning. They have fixed ideas, opinions, conclusions from which they won't budge. And there are young people revolting against that; yet they have their own opinions, their prejudices, their fixed conclusions, so they are like the old.
我会向你展示为什么。 在自由中，您可以发现新事物。 在科学的世界里，必须有发现新事物的自由。 在人际关系中，在这里，我们正在发现，或者学习有关我们自身的新事物。 如果我固执己见，我就无法学习。所以我必须非常地细心，觉察我的固定观点或判断； 因为，这就是这个世界上正在做的事情，而不是学习。 他们有固定的想法、观点和结论，他们不会让步。 而年轻人正在反抗那些东西； 他们也有他们的观点、他们的偏见、他们的固定的结论， 所以他们与老一辈的人同属一窝。
Q: What do you do then if people have their fixed opinions?
发问者：如果人们有固定的观点，你会怎么做？
K: People who have opinions, judgments, conclusions which they hold on to are incapable of living together freely, with intelligence. So have you opinions, judgments, conclusions, a tradition? All these things I have, but I am going to learn. You see the difference? After all, this is a place in which we are being educated, not only about geography and history, mathematics and so on, but we are educating ourselves with the help of each other to be highly intelligent when we leave. You may never leave, you may want to become a teacher here, that's up to you.
克里希那穆提：坚持自己的观点、判断、结论的人们，无法自由地、有智慧地共同生活。 因此，你有观念、判断、结论、传统吗？ 所有那些我都有，但我在学习。 你看见这种区别了吗？ 毕竟，这里是我们接受教育的地方，不仅仅是地理和历史、数学等， 而是在我们彼此的帮助下教育自己，在离开这里的时候，变得高度地智慧。 你可能永远不会离开，你可能想在这里成为一名老师，那取决于你。
This is an educational centre; an educational centre implies the cultivation of intelligence - which is the subtlety of understanding, the faculty to choose. To choose the right course the mind must be free from every form of prejudice, every form of conclusion. Do you want a place like this where you can be educated, freely, happily, in intelligence? Which means, really, cooperation, doesn't it? I cannot cooperate with you if I emphasize my peculiarities. You understand? If I give importance to length of hair and make that the symbol of revolt, follow the consequences of it. Long hair is now the fashion. Length of hair is a symbol of revolt, a symbol of doing what one likes, because the old generation are short haired: it is a symbol of self-assertive aggression, a symbol of beauty. All these are implied in it, aren't they? A symbol of revolt against war, of revolt against the established order. Do you wear your hair long because it's beautiful?
这是一个教育中心；一个教育中心意味着培养智慧 —— 那就是理解的微妙性、选择的辨别力。 要选择正确的道路，这颗头脑必须摆脱各种形式的偏见和各种形式的结论。 你想拥有一个能够在智慧中，自由的、快乐的接受教育的地方吗？ 这就意味着，真正的合作，不是吗？ 如果我强调我的特殊性，我就无法与您合作。你理解吗？ 如果我重视头发的长度并将其作为反抗的象征，请看看它的后果。 长头发现在很流行。头发的长度是反抗的象征，是为所欲为的象征， 因为老一辈的人都是短发：它是任性的、侵略的、美丽的一种象征。 所有这些都隐含在其中，是不是？ 反抗战争的象征，反抗既定秩序的象征。 你留长发是因为它很漂亮吗？
Q: It's like a trap. There are two things: short hair is the Establishment, long hair is anti-Establishment.
发问者：它就像一个陷阱。有两点：短发是当权派，长发是反当权派。
K: I don't say, "Long hair is right" or "Short hair is right". I am asking you: do you wear it because it looks beautiful?
克里希那穆提：我没有说，“长发是对的”或“短发是对的”。 我在问你：你留长发，是因为它看起来很漂亮吗？
Q: Well, let's say it makes me feel more comfortable.
发问者：好吧，让我们这么说，它让我感觉更舒服。
K: Now go into it very carefully. It makes you feel comfortable. Suppose you sit next to me, unwashed, dirty, smelly and I say I don't want to sit next to you. If it is comfortable to you it must also be comfortable to me, who am sitting at the table next to you.
克里希那穆提：现在，非常小心地进入它。它让你感觉很舒服。 假设你坐在我旁边，没洗头发，又脏又臭，我说我不想坐在你旁边。 如果你觉得舒服，那对坐在你旁边的我来说也一定很舒服。
Q: Right.
发问者：对的。
K: Long hair does look very nice if it is kept properly - not hanging all over the face - do you do it for that reason?
克里希那穆提：如果保持得当，长发确实很好看 —— 不是挂在脸上 —— 你是因为这个原因而做的吗？
Q: I don't know if I do it specifically for that reason, to have nice shiny hair.
发问者：我不知道我这样做是不是为了“拥有美好闪亮的头发”。
K: Then why do you keep it long?
克里希那穆提：那你为什么要留那么长呢？
Q: It feels good in the wind and it feels good in the water.
发问者：在风中感觉良好，在水中感觉良好。
K: All right, but you are not in the wind all the time. You have to sit next to me. You are not living alone in this world. We are learning to live together with intelligence, in freedom.
克里希那穆提：好吧，但你不是一直在风中。你必须坐在我旁边。 你不是一个人生活在这个世界上。 我们正在学习‘在自由中，智慧地一起生活’。
Q: Yes, but I can see if bugs are crawling out of the hair, if the hair is just left to grow, I can see why you react on your part if you are sitting next to it.
发问者：是的，但我可以看到虫子是否从头发里爬出来， 如果任由头发生长，我能理解为什么你坐在旁边时会反抗。
K: Wait, I've told you to watch it. As long as it is clean and really looks nice, doesn't smell, what's wrong with it? In Ceylon the men have long hair, they put circular combs in it to keep it tidy and it looks very nice. Are you going to go about like that, with a comb in it? (Laughter.) What's wrong? You see, you are prejudiced, that's what I am getting at.
克里希那穆提：等等，我已经告诉你去观察它。 只要它干净，真的好看，没有异味，有什么问题吗？ 在锡兰，男人的头发很长，他们在里面放了圆梳子，以保持整洁，看起来非常漂亮。 你会那样，把梳子插在头发中吗？（笑声） 怎么了？你看，你有偏见，那就是我看到的。
Q: It's not really prejudice. I don't have anything against you if you go around with a comb in your hair.
发问者：这并不是真正的偏见。 如果你头上插一把梳子四处走动，我不会反对你。
K: As I have to live with you, if you are smelly, if you are untidy, I object to it.
克里希那穆提：因为我必须和你一起生活，如果你有臭味，如果你不整洁，我反对它。
Q: Right. But there's a little confusion for me about the word "tidy".
发问者：对。但是我对“整洁”这个词有点困惑。
K: So if you feel long hair is right, then wear it. But it means that you have to be clean. Or, do you wear it as a symbol of your revolt against the Establishment? And because I have short hair, does it mean I am accepting the Establishment? See the danger, So why are you wearing long hair? You haven't answered me. Do you do it because everybody does it? - which is imitation, conformity, which is unintelligent. Know what you are doing. Is it part of intelligence? If you said, "Look, I'm growing my hair because I like it, it looks nice, it's clean", I'd accept it immediately. But if you're wearing it as a symbol, then I want to know what that symbol is, because I've got to live with you. Your symbol may mean death to me! I want to find out.
克里希那穆提：因此，如果你觉得长头发是好的，那就留长发吧。但它意味着你必须干净。 或者，您是否把它当作反抗当权派的象征？ 因为我有短发，这是否意味着我接受了当权派？ 看这种危险，那你为什么留长发？ 你还没有回答我。你这样做是因为每个人都这样做吗？ —— 也就是在模仿，顺从，也就是没有智慧。 知道你在做什么。它是智慧的一部分吗？如果你说， “瞧，我留头发是因为我喜欢它，它看起来不错，很干净”，我会立即接受它。 但如果你把它当作一种象征，那么我想知道那个象征是什么，因为我必须和你住在一起。 你的象征对我来说，可能意味着死亡！ 我想找出。
Q: But isn't there also kinship with your generation?
发问者：但是你们这一代不是也有亲密关系吗？
K: But know why you are doing it. Kinship with your generation - is that right?
克里希那穆提：但要知道你为什么这样做。你们这一代的亲密关系 —— 那是对的吗？
Q: Friendship, being related to...
发问者：友谊，有关于……。
K: If you feel related to the long-haired ones and not to the short-haired ones, do you see what you are doing? It means you are creating division, which the older generation has created, and therefore you are following. So you are creating as much destruction as they did. Then to wear the symbol of peace on your shirt means nothing. So what I'm saying is, if we are going to live together in intelligence and freedom, we must both know what we are doing and why we are doing it. Not just cover it up with a lot of words, because that is not intelligence. Why do we have vegetarian food in this place? Do you ask that? You raised the word "tidy". Do you know what it means to be orderly? You don't, do you?
克里希那穆提：如果你觉得与留长发的人有关，而与留短发的人无关，你看到你在做什么吗？ 它意味着你正在制造分裂，这也是老一辈已经制造出的，因此，你在跟随。 所以你们和他们一样，在制造大量的破坏。 那样一来，在你的衬衫上佩戴和平徽章就没有任何意义了。 所以我说， 如果我们要共同地生活在智慧和自由中， 我们必须都知道我们在做什么，以及为什么要这样做。 不要只是用很多话来掩盖它，因为那不是智慧。 为什么我们这里提供素食？你问过那吗？ 你提出了“整洁”这个词。你知道“保持秩序”是什么意思吗？你不知道吗？
Q: If I did I wouldn't be here.
发问者：如果我晓得，我就不会在这儿。
K: We are going to go into it. To think in an orderly way, to think clearly, to act clearly. Not: to think one thing and do something else; but to think very clearly, objectively, sanely, that is orderly, isn't it? I'm going to bring that word "tidy" into this. To dress neatly is orderly, isn't it?
克里希那穆提：我们将讨论它。有条不紊地思考，清晰地思考，清晰地行动。 而不是：想一件事，做另一件事； 而是想得很清楚，很客观，很理智，也就是有条不紊，不是吗？ 我将把“整洁”这个词放入其中。穿得整齐才是有秩序的，难道不是吗？
Q: I'm not sure.
发问者：我不确定。
K: What is it you are not sure of? You come into the dining room with naked, dirty feet and I'm sitting next to you. I don't like it because it's not clean, I like to be clean. And you say, that's a prejudice. Is it? Every animal wants to be clean.
克里希那穆提：你不确定什么？ 你光着脚丫来到餐厅，带着一双脏脚，而我就坐在你旁边。 我不喜欢它，因为它不干净，我喜欢干净。 而你说，这是偏见。是吗？每只动物都想保持干净。
Q: Every animal has naked feet too.
发问者：每个动物也光着脚丫。
K: But it is clean. It's always keeping clean, you've seen it licking itself. Come with clean feet! - which means keep the floor clean.
克里希那穆提：但它很干净。它总是保持清洁，你看过它舔自己。 带双干净的脚来吧！—— 这意味着保持这个地板干净。