the beginning of learning 学习入门
Q: Am I always self-centred, Sir? - it is a question that I find difficult to answer for myself.
发问者：我总是以“我”为中心吗，先生？ —— 它是一个我自己很难回答的问题。
K: Here we are, in a beautiful countryside, living in a small community where relationship matters enormously. Can we live here with that quality of mind and feeling that is not wholly self-centred? Then, when we do leave this place - as we must - perhaps we shall be able to live in the world at a different level, with a different feeling and affection and with a different action. And to live like that, not just occasionally, but with a deeper sense of significance and worthwhileness and a feeling of sacredness, I think one has to be free of fear, or understand what fear is. Most of us are afraid of something, aren't we? Do you know what you are afraid of?
克里希那穆提：我们在这儿，一个美丽的乡下，生活在一个小社区，在这儿，关系非常重要。 我们生活在这里，能让头脑的品质处于完全感觉不到自我这个中心吗？ 那么，当我们离开这个地方 —— 我们必须的 —— 也许，在这个世界中，我们将能够处于不同的层次上， 具有着不同的感觉、感情和不同的行为。 像那样生活，不是偶尔地， 而是拥有更深的意义和价值，以及一种神圣感， 我认为一个人必须摆脱恐惧，或者理解恐惧是什么。 我们大多数人都害怕某些东西，我们不是吗？ 你害怕什么？
Q: Not at the moment.
发问者：目前没有。
K: Agreed, because you are sitting here safely. But what is it that one is generally afraid of? Do you know what you are afraid of?
克里希那穆提：同意，因为你安全地坐在这里。 但是一个人通常会害怕什么？你知道你害怕什么吗？
Q: The unknown.
发问者：未知。
K: The unknown? What do you mean by the unknown? The tomorrow? What is going to happen to you, what the world will be like when you grow up and you have to face all the noise and the racket and absurdity of it? Is that what you are frightened of?
克里希那穆提：未知？你说的未知是什么意思？明天？ 你会发生什么，当你长大后，世界会是什么样子？ 你必须面对它所有的嘈杂、喧嚣和荒谬，那就是你害怕的吗？
Q: Well, that is what I mean by the unknown.
发问者：嗯，那就是我所说的未知。
K: And how will you be free of that fear so that you can face it without darkness, without withdrawal, without a neurotic reaction to what the world is? How will you meet that? If you are afraid of it you can't meet it, can you? Discuss it with me! If you have any kind of belief as to how you should behave in the world, which is so chaotic, of which one is afraid, if you have already set a pattern of your behaviour with regard to that, won't that idea, won't that conclusion make it much more difficult?
克里希那穆提：那么，你将如何摆脱那个恐惧， 以便于你能在没有黑暗、没有退缩、没有对世界的神经质反应的情况下面对它？ 你会怎么面对？如果你害怕它，你就无法面对它，对吗？跟我讨论一下！ 如果你有任何一种信念，你应该如何在这个混乱的、恐惧的世界中表现？ 如果你已经在这方面设定了你的行为模式， 那么这些想法和结论，会不会让它变得更加困难？
Sophia, Laurence - do you know what you are afraid of? Are you afraid of your parents? Are you afraid of not being like the others? - having long hair, smoking, drinking, having a good time? Are you afraid of being rather odd, cranky, different? Are you afraid of being alone, standing alone? Are you afraid of what people might say? Of not making a good life in the sense of having money, property, house, husband or wife and all that - is that what you are afraid of? I feel if I don't smoke it is odd socially and I can't fit in; therefore I must force myself to smoke and do the things they do; I am a little frightened that I don't conform. Is that what you are afraid of: not conforming, not imitating, not fitting into the pattern, being square? So what are you afraid of? And throughout life are you going to carry any kind of fear with you?
索菲亚，劳伦斯 —— 你知道你害怕什么吗？ 你害怕你的父母吗？你害怕和别人不一样吗？ —— 留长发、抽烟、喝酒、玩得开心？ 你会害怕变得古怪、暴躁、与众不同吗？ 你害怕一个人独处，一个人独立吗？你害怕人们说的话吗？ 在金钱、财产、房子、丈夫或妻子以及所有这些方面上，没有过上美好的生活 —— 那是你所害怕的吗？ 我觉得如果我不抽烟，这在社交上很古怪，我无法适应； 所以我必须强迫自己抽烟，做他们所做的事； 我有点害怕我不服从。 这就是你害怕的吗：不服从，不模仿，不能适应模式，与社会格格不入？ 你害怕这些吗？在你的一生中，你会带着任何恐惧而度过吗？
Do you know what fear does? It makes you aggressive, violent. Or, you withdraw and become slightly neurotic, odd, peculiar; you five in a darkness of your own, resisting any kind of relationship with anybody, building a wall around yourself, with this nagging fear always going on. So if you don't solve these fears now, when you are young, fresh, have plenty of vitality and energy, later on you won't be able to, it will become much more difficult.
你知道恐惧会导致什么吗？ 它会使你咄咄逼人、暴力。或者，你退缩，变得有点神经质、古怪、奇特； 你们五个人在自己的黑暗中，抵制与任何人的任何关系， 在自己周围筑起一堵墙，而这种纠缠不清的恐惧总是在蔓延。 所以，如果你现在不去解决这些恐惧， 当你处于年轻、清新、精力充沛的时候， 再往后，你就会没有能力，它就会变得更加困难。
So shouldn't we consider what our fears are and see if we can't get rid of them now, while we are protected, while we are here, where we feel at home, meeting each other all the time? Shall we go into this?
因此，在我们受到保护的时候，当我们在这儿的时候，当我们有在家的感觉，总是在一起的时候， 难道我们不应该考虑一下：我们的恐惧是什么，看看我们能不能现在就摆脱它们？ 我们要进入这个问题吗？
Q: Yes.
发问者：是的。
K: How do you go into this problem of fear? For instance, you are afraid of the unknown, the unknown being the tomorrow, having to face the world which is so chaotic, mad, vulgar and violent. Not being able to meet it you are frightened of the future. How do you know what the future will be? And why are you afraid of it?
克里希那穆提：你如何解决这个关于恐惧的问题？ 举个例子，你害怕未知，未知就是明天， 你不得不面对这个如此混乱、疯狂、粗俗、暴力的世界。 没有面对它的能力，你就会恐惧这个未来。 你知道未来会怎样吗？你为什么害怕它？
Q: Aren't we projecting an image of ourselves into the future? And then we are afraid of not being able to live up to that image.
发问者：我们不是在将自己的印象投射到这个未来吗？ 然后，我们害怕无法实现那个印象。
K: You have an image of yourself and if you don't live according to that image you are frightened. That is one of the fears, isn't it? He said just now he is afraid of the unknown - the unknown being the tomorrow, the world, his position in the world, of what is going to happen to him in the future, whether he will become a businessman or a gardener. How will you meet that? How will you understand the fear of the unknown? Because if you are going to be afraid now, as you grow older it will get worse and worse, won't it?
克里希那穆提：你有你自己的印象， 如果你不按照那个印象生活，你就会害怕。那是一个恐惧，它不是吗？ 他刚才说他害怕未知 —— 未知是明天、这个世界、在世界上的位置， 未来会发生在他身上的事情，无论他是成为商人还是园丁。 你会怎么面对那些？你将如何理解对未知的恐惧？ 因为如果你现在害怕，随着年龄的增长，它会变得越来越糟，它不会吗？
Why do you think about the future? Why do you look at the future in terms of what you are now? You are young, fifteen, seventeen, whatever it is, and how do you know what you will be in twenty years' time? Is there a fear because you have an image of yourself or of the world in twenty years' time?
为什么要考虑这个未来？你为什么用你现在的样子来看未来？ 你年轻，十五岁，十七岁，不管多少岁， 你怎么知道二十年后你会是什么样子？ 之所以有这种恐惧，是因为你抱有二十年后的你自己或这个世界的印象吗？
Q: We have been conditioned to have such an image.
发问者：我们已经习惯于拥有那样的印象。
K: Who conditions you? The society, the culture?
克里希那穆提：谁局限了你？这个社会，这种文化吗？
Q: The whole environment.
发问者：整个环境。
K: Now why do you submit to it?
克里希那穆提：现在，你为什么要屈服于它？
Q: It's fear again.
发问者：它又是恐惧。
K: That means what? Go into it. You feel you have to conform and you don't want to conform. You say, "I don't want to conform", and yet you are conforming. You have the image of yourself, which has been created by the culture in which you live, and you say, "That image must conform to the pattern." But it may not conform, and you are frightened. Is that it? Why do you have an image about yourself or the world? The world is cruel, brutal, harsh, violent, full of competition and hate; everybody is trying to get a job, struggle, struggle, struggle. That is a fact, isn't it? Why do you have an image about it? Why don't you say, "That is a fact"? The sun is shining: that is a fact. Or it is a cloudy day: that is a fact. You don't fight the fact. That is what it is. Do you want to fit into that? Do you want to accept the world as it is? Do you accept it and join it and become like that, do you want to be that?
克里希那穆提：那是什么意思？进去吧。 你觉得你必须服从，而你却不想服从。 你说，“我不想服从”，而你却在服从。 你有你自己的印象，它是由你所生活的文化创造的， 而你说，“那个印象必须服从这种模式。” 但它可能不服从，你很害怕。是那样吗？ 为什么你有一个关于你自己或这个世界的印象？ 这个世界是残酷的、野蛮的、严酷的、暴力的，充满竞争和仇恨； 每个人都在努力找工作，挣扎，挣扎，挣扎。那是事实，不是吗？ 为什么你有一个关于它的印象？你为什么不说：“那是一个事实”？ 太阳在发光：那是一个事实。或者它是一个阴天：那是一个事实。 你不能与事实打架。那就是那样。你想适应那里吗？ 你愿意接受这个世界吗？ 你接受它，加入它，并变成那样，你想成为那样吗？
Q: Well, one doesn't.
发问者：哦，一个人不想那样。
K: First see, just look. The world is like that, isn't it? The world has created the culture in which you were born. That culture has conditioned you and that conditioning says: you must conform, whether it is a Communist or Catholic or Hindu background. And now you are here being educated, not merely with books but also deeply to understand yourself. So you must ask yourself, do you want to fit into all that? Do you want to conform to the pattern to which culture has conditioned you, do you want to fit into that?
克里希那穆提：先看，只是看。世界就是那样的，它不是吗？ 这个世界被创造，在这种文化中，你出生了。这种文化已经局限了你， 而那种局限说：你必须服从，无论是共产主义、天主教还是印度文化背景。 现在，你在这里接受教育，不仅是书本，而且是深入理解你自己。 所以你必须问你自己，你想融入那一切吗？ 你想服从这种被文化所局限的模式吗？ 你想融入其中吗？
Q: Obviously not.
发问者：显然不是。
K: Don t say, "Obviously not."
克里希那穆提：不要说，“显然不是。”
Q: I think most people do.
发问者：我认为大多数人都在这样做。
K: You - leave the others out.
克里希那穆提：你 —— 把其他人排除在外。
Q: We don't.
发问者：我们不。
K: Don't say, "Most people do"; they don't even think about it. They just run along with the rest. Here we are thinking about it, we are looking at it, we are questioning it. Do you know what it means not to conform to something? It means going against the whole structure of society. Morally, in business, in religion you are going against the whole culture; which means you have to stand alone. You may starve, you may have no money, you may have no job - you have to stand alone. Can you? Will you? You don't know, do you? - you may or may not.
克里希那穆提：不要说，“大多数人都在这样做”； 他们甚至不去考虑它。他们只是跟随着其他人，在一起奔走。 在这里，我们正在考虑它，我们正在观察它，我们正在质疑它。 你克知道，不服从某些东西意味着什么？ 它意味着违背整个社会结构。 在伦理上，在商业上，在宗教上，你都在违背整个文化；也就是说，你必须独立。 你可能会挨饿，你可能没有钱，你可能没有工作 —— 你必须独自站立。你能吗？ 你愿意吗？你不知道，是吗？ —— 你可能会，也可能不会。
That is one of our fears, isn't it? One of the great fears in our life is about conforming. If you conform, then you become like the rest - and that is much easier. But if you don't conform then the whole world is against you. And this is very serious, unless you have the intelligence to withstand the world; otherwise you will be destroyed. If you have fear you cannot have that intelligence. Or you will probably get married and your wife will want to conform and you won't. Then you are stuck! You have children before you know where you are and it's much worse - because then you have to earn money to support the children.
那是我们的一个恐惧，它不是吗？我们生活中最大的一个恐惧就是服从。 如果你服从，那么你就会变得和其他人一样 —— 那要容易得多。 但如果你不服从，那么整个世界都在反对你。 而这是很严重的，除非你有立足于社会的智慧；否则你会被摧毁。 如果你有恐惧，你就无法拥有那种智慧。 或者你可能会结婚，而你的妻子想要服从，你却不想。那你就卡住了！ 在你认清你的境况之前，你已经有了孩子，情况就更糟 —— 因为那样你就必须赚钱来养活孩子。
Q: Then you are back again.
发问者：那么，你又回去了。
K: Then you are caught in a trap. So from now on you have to look at the whole problem, understand it, go into it. Don't just say, "I am frightened." You see the culture in which we are born makes us conform, doesn't it? It makes you conform and it makes you envious not to be like somebody else.
克里希那穆提：那样一来，你就掉入了陷阱。 所以从现在开始，你必须审视整个问题，理解它，进入它。 不要只是说，“我很恐惧。” 你看，我们出生的文化使我们服从，它没有吗？ 它让你服从，它让你产生嫉妒 —— 当你不如别人的时候。
So conformity and comparison make you afraid - do you follow? At home, in school, in college, and when you are out in the world, life is based on it. So if you are frightened, then you are caught for ever. But you can say, "I am not going to be frightened, let's examine it, let's find out how to live in the world which demands acceptance, conformity and comparison." How can you live in this world without being frightened, without conforming, without always comparing yourself with somebody? Then, if you know how to live that way, you will never be frightened. You understand?
因此，服从和比较使你产生恐惧 —— 你跟上了吗？ 在家里，在学校，在大学，当你在外面的世界，生命都建立在它的基础上。 因此，如果您恐惧，那么您将永远被困住。 但是你可以说，“我不会害怕，让我检查它， 让我找出如何在这个要求接受、服从和比较的世界中生活。” 你怎样才能活在这个世界上， 而不害怕，不随波逐流，不和别人比较？ 那么，如果你知道如何以这种方式生活，你就永远不会害怕。你理解吗？
Begin here, don't look at the time when you will be fifty years old. Begin here, now, when you are very young, to find out how to live a really intelligent life in which there is no imitation, conformity and comparison, which is without fear. Your brain cells, while you are young are much more active, much more pliable, more inquisitive. Later on, when you are older, you will get conditioned, you will have a family, a house: "I can't think of anything except business, it is dangerous to think more." Now, how will you live a life in which you don't compare and conform, because you are not afraid. Which means what? Fear is engendered, is bred, when you have an image about yourself; and you have that image to conform. You, that image, wants conformity. Now we have to examine very carefully what conformity is. What do you mean by conforming? You have long hair; are you doing it because other boys and girls and older people have long hair? All the pop singers have long hair - have you seen their faces? Do you want to be like that? Having long and sloppy hair - which you have - do you consider that conforming? Are you doing it because others are doing it?
从这里开始，不要等到五十岁的时候才去看，从这儿、从现在开始， 当你还很小的时候，去找出如何过一种真正有智慧的生命， 在其中，没有模仿、服从和比较，也没有恐惧。 你的脑细胞在你年轻的时候更加活跃，更柔韧，更好奇。 再往后推，年纪大了，你就有局限，会有家庭，有房子： “除了生意上的事情，我什么都不能想，想多了，就是危险。” 现在，你将如何过一种不比较和服从的生活，因为你不害怕。 这意味着什么？当你对自己有一个印象时，恐惧就会产生，就会蔓延； 接着，你有了一个要去服从的印象。你，那个印象，想要服从。 现在，我们必须非常仔细地检查什么是服从。 你觉得服从是什么意思？ 你有一头长发；你这样做是因为其他男孩、女孩和老年人留长发吗？ 所有的流行歌手都留长发 —— 你见到他们的脸了吗？你想成为那样吗？ 留着又长又乱的头发 —— 就像你现在的这个样子 —— 你觉得那是服从吗？ 你那样做，是因为别人在那么做吗？
Q: If you have short hair you are also conforming.
发问者：如果你有短发，你也在服从。
K: Are you conforming? You have long hair; are you conforming, wearing sandals because others are doing it? - walking in Piccadilly or Fifth Avenue with naked feet. Do you also walk around with naked feet?
克里希那穆提：你在服从吗？你有一头长发； 你在服从吗，你穿凉鞋，是因为其他人都在这样做吗？ —— 赤脚走在皮卡迪利大街或第五大道。你也赤脚走路吗？
Q: Usually I think it is the conditioning in which you are living.
发问者：通常，我认为这是你生活中的局限。
K: Which means: are you reacting against the short hair? I will tell you why I have short hair. I have had hair down to my waist, much longer than any of you here. And when I first came to England and went to school they used to say, "Get your hair cut!" Give your minds to find out why you wear long hair. Are you doing it because others are doing it, or do you like it?
克里希那穆提：这意味着：你在反抗短发吗？ 我会告诉你我为什么留短发。我的头发一直长到腰部，比你们这里的任何人都要长。 当我第一次来英国上学时，他们说：“剪头发！” 让你的头脑找出：你为什么留长发。 你这样做，是因为别人在这样做，还是你喜欢它？
Q: I like it.
发问者：我喜欢它。
K: What does that mean? You like to wear it because you are going to save money at the barber's? (Laughter.) You have to keep it clean, well brushed, otherwise it looks ugly. Do you do it because you like it? That is a good reason, isn't it?
克里希那穆提：那是什么意思？ 你喜欢它，是因为你要省下去理发店的钱吗？（笑声。） 你必须保持干净，梳理好，否则它就是丑陋的。 你这样做是因为你喜欢吗？那是一个很好的理由，不是吗？
That means you are not conforming, because tomorrow the fashion will be short hair - will you all wear short hair then? So are you doing it because you want to do it, irrespective of what others do?
那意味着你不是在服从，因为明天的时尚将是短发 —— 那时，你们都留短发吗？ 因此，你这样做，是因为你想这样做，而不会去管别人怎么做吗？
Q: Isn't it the same with clothes?
发问者：衣服不也一样吗？
K: Do you put on these strange clothes because others do?
克里希那穆提：你穿这些奇怪的衣服是因为别人这么穿吗？
Q: Every boy is concerned about his appearance to a greater or lesser extent.
发问者：每个男孩或多或少都在关心自己的外表。
K: Right. You think this makes a good appearance, it's nice looking when you wear sloppy clothes?
克里希那穆提：对。你觉得这样很好看，穿宽松的衣服好看吗？
Q: You might feel that yourself.
发问者：你自己可能会感觉到。
K: Do you do it because you like it, or because you want to conform?
克里希那穆提：你这样做是因为你喜欢它，还是因为你想服从？
Q: Not necessarily because you want to conform.
发问者：不一定是因为你想服从。
K: Find out! Don't say, "Not necessarily."
克里希那穆提：找出来！不要说“不一定”。
Q: I think it is all a matter of like and dislike.
发问者：我认为这完全是一个喜欢和不喜欢的问题。
K: I am asking. The pop singers wear purple trousers and yellow shirts - you have seen that. They say, "I like these clothes, they flatter me" - is that why you are doing it? So hair, clothes, the way you think, the way you feel - is it because the rest are feeling that way? The rest are Frenchmen, Germans, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Catholics - and you become one or the other because that is the easiest. Is that why you follow? Or do you say, "No, that is all wrong, I won't be like that."
克里希那穆提：我在问。 流行歌手穿着紫色裤子和黄色衬衫 —— 你已经看到了。 他们说，“我喜欢这些衣服，它们使我高兴” —— 这就是你这样做的原因吗？ 所以头发、衣服、你的想法、你的感觉 —— 是不是因为其他人都有这种感觉？ 其他人是指：法国人、德国人、犹太人、印度教徒、佛教徒、天主教徒 —— 而你成为了其中的一员，因为那是最容易的。 那就是你追随的原因吗？或者你会说，“不，那都是错的，我不会那样。”
So first find out why you have long hair and clothes like this, whether you are American, French or German, so that you begin to exercise your own mind. You see, while you are young, if you are not revolutionary then - I don't mean throwing bombs, which is not revolution at all - if you are not enquiring, questioning, doubting, looking at yourself, finding out what you think, investigating the whole field of yourself, later on it will be much more difficult.
所以，先搞清楚你为什么留长发，并穿成这样， 不论你是美国人、法国人还是德国人，那么，你就可以开始锻炼你自己的头脑了。 你看，在你年轻的时候，如果你不是革命者，那么 —— 我不是说扔炸弹，这根本就不是革命 —— 如果你不去调查、质疑、怀疑、审视你自己、 找出你在想什么，调查你自身的整个领域，以后要这么做，就会更加困难。
Q: I think the main point in all this is fear. For example, say I have long hair; if I cut my hair it's because I know that everything will go smoothly and there will be no problems at all. I feel I do most things for security, for ease.
发问者：我认为这一切的重点是恐惧。例如，说我留有长发； 如果我剪发，那是因为我知道一切都会顺利，不会有任何问题。 我觉得我做的大多数事情都是为了安全，为了轻松。
K: I understand. So you are frightened - why?
克里希那穆提：我理解。所以你在害怕 —— 为什么？
Q: Frightened that I don't fit in with the pattern that is going on.
发问者：害怕我不适应当前流行的模式。
K: Then what will you do? Live with that fear? Why should you fit into the pattern?
克里希那穆提：那么，你会怎么做？忍受那种恐惧？你为什么要适应这种模式？
Q: If you want to stay here it is better to do so.
发问者：如果你想留在这里，最好这么做。
K: You are saying, if you want to keep alive, you must fit into the pattern. And do you want to live that way - fighting, quarrelling, hating, envy, struggle, wars?
克里希那穆提：你是说，如果你想活下去，你必须适应这个模式。 你想那样活着吗 —— 战斗、争吵、仇恨、嫉妒、斗争、战争？
Q: No.
发问者：不。
K: As we said the other day, to be really educated means not to conform, not to imitate, not to do what millions and millions are doing. If you feel like doing that, do it. But be awake to what you are doing - quarrels, hatred, antagonism, division between people where there is really no relationship at all, wars - if you really like living that way. Then you will invite all the mess round you, you are part of that, then there is no problem. But if you say, "I don't want to live that way", then you have to find out how to live differently. And that demands intelligence. Conformity doesn't demand intelligence, it demands cunningness.
克里希那穆提：正如我们前些天所说， 真正的教育意味着不服从、不模仿、不做千百万人正在做的事情。 如果你想这样做，那就去做吧。 但是，要清楚你正在做的事情 —— 争吵、仇恨、对抗、 人与人之间没有任何真正联系的划分、战争 —— 如果你真的喜欢那样活着。 那么，你会邀请你周围的所有混乱，你属于其中的一分子，那么就没有问题。 但如果你说，“我不想那样生活”，那你就必须找出：怎样拥有不同的生活。 那需要智慧。服从不需要智慧，它要求狡猾。
The world is this and you are here to be educated in every department of life, both inwardly and outwardly. Which means: inwardly don't have fears. Not to have fears means you must find out how to live without fear, therefore you have to investigate what fear is. Enquiring into what fear is, your mind becomes intelligent; that intelligence will then show you how to live in this world sanely.
这个世界就是这样， 你在这里接受生活的各个方面的教育，无论是内在的还是外在的。 这意味着：内心没有恐惧。 没有恐惧意味着你必须找出，如何没有恐惧地生活， 因此，你必须调查什么是恐惧。 调查什么是恐惧，你的头脑就会变得智慧； 那么，这种智慧会告诉你：如何理智地生活在这个世界上。
Fear is one of the greatest problems in the world, probably the greatest problem. So you have to face this thing, you have to completely understand it and be out of it.
恐惧是世界上最大的问题之一，可能是最大的问题。 所以你必须面对这个东西，你必须彻底理解它，并摆脱它。
You said, "I am afraid of the unknown, the tomorrow, the future". Why do you think of tomorrow at all? Is that a healthy sign? You are young, full of the strange beauty of this countryside, curious about birds, about living - why are you concerned about tomorrow? Because your mother, your father, the neighbours are already asking what will happen to you tomorrow? They are frightened people - why do you fall into their trap? The world is becoming more and more populated - do you know what that means? In India, I believe, twelve or thirteen million new babies are born every year. And in China many more. The world is getting fuller and fuller of people, and they all want jobs, they all want homes, children, position, prestige, power, money. The more you look at it, the more frightened you get and you say, "What is going to happen to me?" How do you know now what you will do or be like in twenty years' time? You see what you are doing? While you are young, live, enjoy, don't think about the future. If you live now without fear, then when you grow up you will be the same, you will live - it doesn't matter what you do, whether you're a gardener, a cook, whatever it is, it will be a happy thing for you. But if you say, "My God, how shall I fit into this world, how shall I manage when I am thirty", then you are destroying yourself.
你说，“我害怕未知，害怕明天，害怕未来”。 你为什么要想明天？那是健康的标志吗？ 你年轻，洋溢着这乡间的奇特之美，对鸟儿、对生活充满了好奇 —— 你为什么要担心明天？ 因为你的母亲、你的父亲、邻居们已经在问：你明天会怎样？ 他们是受到惊恐的人 —— 你为什么会落入他们的圈套？ 世界人口越来越多 —— 你知道这意味着什么吗？ 我相信在印度，每年有一千二百万或一千三百万的新生儿出生。 在中国还有更多。世界上的人越来越多， 他们都想要工作，他们都想要房子、孩子、职位、声望、权力和金钱。 你越看它，就越害怕，你说， “我将会发生什么事情？” 你怎么知道二十年后你会做什么或者喜欢什么？ 你看到你自己在做什么吗？当你年轻、清新、欢乐的时候，别去想关于未来的事情。 如果你现在不惊恐地活着，那么当你成熟时，也会是这样，你会生活 —— 不论你做什么，园丁，厨师，不管是什么职业，对你来说都是一件高兴的事。 但如果你说，“我的天哪，我要如何适应这个世界？等到我三十岁，该如何生活？”， 那么你正在毁灭你自己。
You see, each generation more or less conforms to the past generation, therefore no generation is ever a new generation. What we are trying to do here is to create a new generation. It may be forty people - that is good enough - who won't be afraid, who won't conform, who will have the intelligence to find out what to do when they grow up; this intelligence will tell you what to do. But if you are frightened, from now on you will be caught.
你看，每一代都或多或少地服从上一代， 因此，没有一代是新的一代。 我们在这里试图做的是创造新的一代。可能有四十个人 —— 那已经足够了 —— 他们不会害怕，不会随波逐流， 他们长大后会智慧地找出该做什么； 这种智慧会告诉你该怎么做。 但是如果你害怕，从现在开始，你就会被困住。
Are you afraid of standing alone? Do you know what I mean by that? Are you, Rachael? Are you afraid of being alone? - not in the dark. Alone means not to have companions, not to be dependent on people, on their flattery, on their encouragement, on their saying, "You are marvellous." Are you dependent on anybody? Obviously we are dependent on the milkman, on food, on who cooks it - we are dependent in that way. But emotionally are we dependent on anybody? Find out! Look at it. Does love demand dependence? "I love you" - does it mean I depend upon you? Or do you depend upon me emotionally? I may earn the money, that is a different kind of dependence. But psychologically, inwardly, in our feelings, when we say "I love", does that mean I depend upon you, that without you I would be lost? Is love like and dislike? That is a form of dependency - do you understand that? Do you see the difference between like and love, between love and pleasure? To like is a form of pleasure, isn't it?
你害怕一个人站立吗？你知道我的意思吗？ 你怕吗，瑞秋？你害怕独立吗？—— 不是处于黑暗中。 独立意味着没有同伴，不依赖他人，不依赖于他们的奉承，不依赖于他们的鼓励， 不依赖他们说，“你真了不起”。你依赖任何人吗？ 显然，我们依赖送奶工，依赖食物，依赖谁做饭 —— 我们在这种方式上依赖。 但在情感上，我们是否依赖任何人？找出！看它。 爱需要依赖吗？“我爱你” —— 这是否意味着我依赖你？ 还是你在情感上依赖我？我可能会赚到钱，那是不同种类的依赖。 但在心理上，内心里，在我们的感情中， 当我们说“我爱”的时候，是否意味着我依赖你；没有你，我会迷茫吗？ 爱是喜欢和不喜欢吗？ 那是一种依赖形式 —— 你理解吗？ 你看到喜欢和爱之间、爱和快乐之间的区别了吗？ 喜欢是一种快乐，不是吗？
Q: If I say, "I like you", it means I choose, but if I don't choose then it is all right.
发问者：如果我说，“我喜欢你”，它代表我选择， 但如果我不选择，那也没关系。
K: Look! I am saying: do you depend psychologically on anybody? If you do, in that there is fear, isn't there? Because if anything happens to you I am frightened. I become jealous if you look at somebody else. Which means I possess you - right? I depend on you, therefore I must be assured that I possess you in every way, otherwise I am lost. Therefore I am frightened, therefore I become more and more dependent and more and more jealous. So do you depend on anybody? And all this dependence is generally called love, isn't it?
克里希那穆提：看！我说：你在心理上依赖任何人吗？ 如果你这样做，那里面就有恐惧，没有吗？因为，如果你出了什么事，我就害怕。 如果你看别人，我就会嫉妒。也就是说，我占有你 —— 对吧？ 我依赖你，所以我必须确保我在各方面都占有你，否则我会迷失方向。 所以我害怕，所以我越来越依赖，越来越嫉妒。 因此，你依赖任何人吗？而这一切的依赖，通常被称为“爱”，不是吗？
Q: Dependence is a fear of being without.
发问者：依赖是一种对失去的恐惧。
K: Find out, don't agree, find out if you are dependent. And then find out why you depend and see what are the implications of that dependence - fear, loneliness, lack of comfort. If you don't depend on people then you are not frightened, are you? Then you don't mind standing alone. You are standing alone not out of fear; the moment you are alone you are much more honest, much more sure, nobody can corrupt you, there is no question of being hurt. So find out if you are dependent on people. And not only on people, on drink, tobacco, chatter, talking endlessly about nothing.
克里希那穆提：找出来，不要同意，找出你是否有依赖。 然后找出你依赖的原因，看看这种依赖的含义是什么 —— 恐惧、孤独、缺乏舒适感。 如果你不依赖别人，那么你就不害怕，你有吗？ 那么，你就不介意一个人站立。你保持独立，不是因为害怕； 当你独立的时候，你会更诚实，更确定， 没有人可以腐蚀你，不存在被伤害的问题。 所以，要弄清楚你是否依赖人们。 不只是对人们，还包括对喝酒、抽烟、喋喋不休、无休止地空谈。
Q: We do depend on our parents, don't we?
发问者：我们确实依赖我们的父母，我们不是吗？
K: We depend on our parents because they have brought us into the world, they feel responsible and we depend on them because they give us money to be educated. That is a different kind of dependence.
克里希那穆提：我们依赖父母，因为他们把我们带到了这个世界， 他们感到有责任，我们依赖他们，因为他们给我们钱来接受教育。 那是另一种依赖。
Q: That is a necessary dependence.
发问者：那是一种必要的依赖。
K: It is necessary. I depend on the postman. When I get into the train I depend on the engine driver.
克里希那穆提：它是必要的。我依赖邮递员。 当我上火车时，我依赖司机。
Q: Is one dependent if one thinks incessantly of one object or person?
发问者：如果一个人不停地想一个对象或一个人，那他是在依赖的？
K: Yes, obviously.
克里希那穆提：是的，很明显。
Q: It seems to me that one of the main things is that society is dependent on its art, which becomes part of any form of self-expression and art becomes incredibly important.
发问者：在我看来，主要的事情之一是社会依赖于它的艺术， 它成为任何形式的自我表现的一部分，艺术变得非常重要。
K: "Self-expression" - what does that mean? "I must express myself", "I must be myself". Look at it carefully - "I" must express myself. "I" must be myself. "I" must find my identity - myself. You know all the phrases. Now what does that mean: "I must be myself"? Is the "I" the fear, the "I" that is envious, the "I" that says, "I am so frightened of the future, what is going to happen to me?" The "I" that says, "It is my house, my book, this is my husband, my boyfriend?" That is the "I", isn't it? And that "I" says, "I must express myself" - how silly it sounds! No?
克里希那穆提：“自我表现” —— 那是什么意思？ “我必须表达我自己”，“我必须做我自己”。仔细看 —— “我”必须表达我自己。“我”必须是我自己。“我”必须找到我的身份 —— 我自己。 你知道所有的这些短语。 现在，这是什么意思：“我必须是我自己”？ 这个“我”是恐惧，是嫉妒吗？ 这个“我”说：“我对未来如此恐惧，我会发生什么事情？” 这个“我”说，“这是我的房子，我的书，这是我的丈夫，我的男朋友。” 那就是“我”，它不是吗？ 那个“我”说，“我必须表达我自己” —— 它听起来多么愚蠢！不是吗？
Q: Isn't expression creativity?
发问者：表现不是创造吗？
K: Find out. Is expression creativity? Painting a picture, writing a poem, making a pot - is that creativity? I am not saying it is or it is not.
克里希那穆提：找出来。表现是创造吗？ 画一幅画，写一首诗，做一个锅 —— 这就是创造吗？我不是说它是或不是。
Q: It does bring into being something that was not there before.
发问者：它确实带来了一些以前不存在的东西。
K: To make something that was not there before is to be creative, is that it?
克里希那穆提：制造以前没有的东西就是要有创造性，那是它吗？
Q: That is not what you mean.
发问者：那不是你的意思。
K: I don't know. People say expression is creativeness. Follow this step by step - self-expression is creative. The self: what is that self?
克里希那穆提：我不知道。人们说表现就是创造。 一步一步来 —— 自我表现是创造性的。自我：那个自我是什么？
Q: That kind of creativity is limited.
发问者：那种创造是被局限的。
K: Look at those words, "I express myself and therefore I am creative." What does it mean?
克里希那穆提：看看那些话，“我在表达我自己，因此我很有创意。” 它是什么意思？
Q: It may be a sort of therapy, to be able to do that.
发问者：它可能是一种治疗，能够做到那一点。
K: You are saying, by expressing yourself you will become healthy, you will become sane? Listen: "Self-expression is creative." Think of that.
克里希那穆提：你说，通过表达你自己，你会变得健康，你会变得理智？ 听：“自我表现是创造性的。” 想想那。
Q: I suppose it is just identifying oneself.
发问者：我建议，它只是在认同自己。
K: Just look. What is the "I". Go into it, don't accept these terms: "I am expressing myself." What does it mean? Who is the "I"? My long hair, my short hair, my anger, my jealousy, my memories, my pleasures, my dislike, my sex, my little enjoyment - is that the "me"? It is the "me", isn't it?, that wants to express itself - which is my anger, my jealousy, my this and that, whatever it is. Is that creative? So what is creativeness? This is an immense question. Does the creative man, or the creative mind, ever think about expressing?
克里希那穆提：只是去看。什么是这位“我”。 进入它，不要接受这些术语：“我在表达我自己。” 它是什么意思？ “我”是谁？我的长发，我的短发， 我的愤怒，我的嫉妒，我的回忆，我的快乐，我的厌恶，我的性，我的小享受 —— 那就是“我”吗？它就是“我”，它不是吗？ 那个想要表达它自己的 —— 也就是我的愤怒，我的嫉妒，我的这个和那个，不管它是什么。那些有创造性吗？ 因此，什么是创造？这是一个巨大的问题。 有创造性的人，或有创造性的头脑，会去考虑表达吗？
Q: No.
发问者：不会。
K: Wait, This is a little difficult. Don't say yes or no. Whoever says, "I am expressing myself" ought to be kicked in the pants!
克里希那穆提：等等，这有点困难。不要说是或否。 谁在说“我在表达我自己”？应该被踢屁股！
Q: To express something does not mean to be creative...
发问者：表达某事并不意味着具有创造性...
K: Therefore, what does creativeness mean? I exist and express myself - is that creativity? Or is creativity when the "I" is not? When the "I" says, "I must express myself by kicking somebody", the "I" expressing itself is violence. So is the state of creativity the absence of the "I"? When there is the absence of the "I", do you know that you are creative? That is all! Have you understood? When you are doing something with a motive behind it - of becoming popular, famous, having more money - that is not doing something which you really love to do. A musician who says, "I love music", but who is watching how many titled people there are in the audience, how much money he is going to make, he is not creative, he is not a musician; he is using music in order to become famous, to have money. So there can be no creativity if there is a motive behind it. See this for yourself.
克里希那穆提：因此，创造是什么意思？ 我存在并表达我自己 —— 这就是创造吗？或者当“我”不在时，就有创造？ 当“我”说，“我必须通过踢人来表达我自己”时，“我”表达出的自己就是暴力。 那么创造的状态是“我”的缺席吗？ 当“我”不在时，你知道你有创造性吗？就是那样！ 你理解到了吗？当你做某事的时候，背后有某个动机 —— 变得受欢迎、出名、拥有更多的钱 —— 那就不是你真正喜欢做的事情。 一个说“我爱音乐”的音乐家，却在看观众中有多少名人， 他赚了多少钱，他就没有创造性，他就不是音乐家； 他用音乐是为了出名，为了赚钱。 因此，如果背后有动机，就不可能有创造。你自己去看。
So when we use these words, "I must express myself", "I must be creative", "I must identify myself", it has no meaning. When you really see this, live that way, understand it, your mind is already free of the "me".
因此，当我们使用词语时，“我必须表达我自己”、“我必须有创造性”、 “我必须认同我自己”，它没有任何意义。 当你真正看到这一点，那样去生活，理解它，你的头脑就已经脱离了这个“我”。
Q: Is it valid to make things of beauty?
发问者：制造美丽东西是否有价值？
K: Valid for whom?
克里希那穆提：对谁有价值？
Q: For yourself.
发问者：对你自己。
K: What do you mean, "yourself"? Do you remember, we talked about beauty the other day? Look at that tree and the shadow and the sunlight: that is beauty. How do you know what is beautiful? Because somebody told you? A famous artist has painted a picture, or a great poet has written about that light and the tree and the clouds and the shadows and the movement of the leaves. And you say, "He is a great man, I like that, it is beautiful." Is beauty something that comes to you through another?
克里希那穆提：你是指什么意思 —— “你自己”？ 你还记得前些天我们谈到了“美”吗？ 看看那棵树、影子和阳光：那是美。 你怎么知道“什么是美”？因为有人告诉你？ 一位著名的艺术家画过一幅画，或者一位伟大的诗人写过 关于那光、树、云、阴影和树叶的运动。 而你说，“他是个伟人，我喜欢这些，很美。” 美是通过另一个东西而来到你身边的吗？
Is beauty something that you have been told about? What then is the sense of beauty? Not what is beautiful, but the sense of beauty? Does this beauty lie in the building, in the tree, in the face of a person, in music, in a poem, in things outside? Or do the things you see become much more intensified because you have this sense, this sense of beauty? You understand what I mean? - because you have the feeling of beauty. Therefore when you see something extraordinary like that, you delight in it because in yourself you have this sense. Now how do you arrive at this, or happen to have this sense? How do you come by it? Can you come by it by training, through an image, through any amount of reading, studying, collecting paintings and having a lovely house? How does this happen?
美是你被告知的东西吗？那什么是美感？ 不是说“什么是美”，而是这种对美的感觉。 这种美是否存在于建筑、树、人脸、音乐、诗歌、外面的东西之中？ 或者，是因为你有这种感觉，而当你看到这些东西，使这种感觉，这种美感变得更加地强烈？ 你明白我的意思吗？—— 因为你有对美的感觉。 因此，当你看到这些非凡的事物， 你会乐在其中，因为你自己有这种感觉。 现在，你如何到达那种状态，或者碰巧有这种感觉？你是怎么遇到它的？ 你能通过训练，通过印象， 通过任何数量的阅读、学习、收藏画作和拥有一个可爱的房子来获得它吗？ 这是怎么发生的？
Do you remember what we said the other day? It happens when you are physically very sensitive, watching - sensitive, not only about yourself but sensitive to others, to everything - sensitive to how much you eat, the way you sit, the way you talk, the way you walk. I am going to come down to something very practical. I have seen a lot of you eating: you touch something, lick your fingers thoroughly and go back and pick up something else - do you think that is to be sensitive?
你还记得我们前几天说过的话吗？ 它会在这种情形下发生：当你的身体非常地敏感和警觉 —— 这种敏感性，不仅针对你自己，而且也对他人，对一切都敏感 —— 对你吃了多少、坐的姿势、你说话的方式、你走路的方式很敏感。 我将它着落于一些非常实际的地方。 我见过很多人在吃东西： 你摸到某个东西，彻底舔你的手指，然后回去捡别的东西 —— 你认为这是敏感的吗？
Q: It is then on your own plate.
发问者：那么它就在你自己的盘子里。
K: I didn't mean that. You can do whatever you like on your own plate. But you lick your finger and pick up a piece of bread.
克里希那穆提：我不是那个意思。您可以在自己的盘子上做任何您喜欢的事情。 但是你舔了舔手指，拿起了一块面包。
Q: It is unhygienic.
发问者：这是不卫生的。
K: I don't want to lick your spittle! I have seen everybody do it. First of all it is not hygienic. I touch my mouth and then pick up a piece of bread or something else - you follow? I have contaminated it.
克里希那穆提：我不想舔你的唾沫！我见过每个人都这样做过。 首先它不卫生。 我摸了摸自己的嘴，然后拿起一块面包或其他东西 —— 你理解吗？ 我已经污染了它。
You are unaware of what you are doing, you do it automatically. Now to do something automatically is not to be sensitive - that is all. So when you become aware of it, of the implications, you won't do it. When you sit down to eat, some of you don't chew your food at all. You just swallow it, and food is meant to be chewed. When you become aware of everything, you become sensitive and to be sensitive is to have an awareness of beauty, to have the sense of beauty. And without the sense of inward beauty you may do the most marvellous things, but it won't contain the flame.
你不知道你在做什么，你在不自觉地做。 现在，不自觉地做某种事情就不是敏感 —— 就是那样。 所以，当你觉察到了它的影响，你就不会那么做。 当你坐下来吃饭时，有些人根本不咀嚼食物。 你只是吞下它，食物是用来嚼的。 当你觉察到一切，你就变得敏感， 敏感就是对美的觉察，对美的感觉。 没有内在对美的感觉，你可以做最了不起的事情，但它不会包含那种火焰。