the beginning of learning 学习入门
Q: We were talking about why one can't say that one loves someone.
发问者：我们在谈论为什么不能说“一个人爱某个人”。
K: Can we approach it in a different way? Do you know what aggressiveness is? It means opposition, to go against. From that arises the question: how are you going to meet life when you have passed through here and are so-called educated? Do you want to be swallowed up by the society, the culture in which you live, or are you going to oppose it, revolt against it, which will be a reaction and not a total action? Are you going to step into the easy way of life, conform, imitate, adjust to the pattern, whatever that pattern be, whether it be the establishment, or an establishment of a different kind, and so on? Or are you going to be a totally different human being, who is aware and knows he has to meet adversity and opposition, and that therefore there is no easy way of satisfaction? Because most of us want a life of ease, of comfort, without trouble, which is almost impossible; and if you do meet opposition will you run away from it? "I don't like this place, these people, this job", so I move away, run away from it to do something else which will be satisfactory. Do you use others for your own satisfaction? And is love the use of others, either sexually, or as companionship, or for one's own satisfaction, not superficially but much more deeply?
克里希那穆提：我们可以用不同的方式来它接近它吗？ 你知道什么是侵犯吗？它意味着对立、抗拒。 由此而产生了一个问题：当你完成了这里的学业和所谓的教育，你将如何面对生命？ 你是想被社会、你所生活的文化所吞没， 还是要去反对它、抗拒它，也就是一种反抗而非一个完整的行动？ 你会步入简单的生活方式吗？顺从、模仿、适应这种模式， 不管那种模式是什么，不论是这个组织还是那个的组织等等。 或者你将成为一个完全不同的人类， 他觉察并知晓他必须面对逆境和反对，因此不存在简单而舒适的方式？ 因为，我们大多数人都想要一种轻松、舒适、没有麻烦的生命，而那几乎是不可能的； 如果你真的遇到了反对，你会逃避它吗？ “我不喜欢这个地方，那些人，这份工作”， 所以我离开它，逃跑，去做其他令人满意的事情。 你会为了自己的满足而利用别人吗？ 抛开肤浅的表面，从更深的层面上看，爱是对他人的利用吗？—— 不论它是性爱、陪伴或自己的满足？
How are you going to meet all this, which is what life is? The so-called educated people in the world, who have been to college, to university, have got a good job, fit into a place and stay there and advance there. They have their own troubles, their own adversities.
你将如何面对这一切，面对生命？ 这个世界上所谓的受过教育的人，读完了院校和大学， 找到一份好工作，适应某个地方，留在那里并在那里发展。 他们有他们自己的烦恼，他们自己的逆境。
One may pass some exam and get a job, or one may have been educated technologically. But psychologically one doesn't know anything about oneself. One is unhappy, miserable because one can't get this or that, one quarrels with one's husband or wife - you know all that goes on. And they are all very educated people who read books, disregarding the whole field of life. And the non-educated people do the same. You are going to be educated - I don't know why, but you are going to be - and then what? Lead a comfortable life? Not that one is against comfort, but if one is seeking comfort in life it becomes rather shoddy, rather shallow, and you have to conform to a tremendous extent to the structure of the culture in which you live. And if you revolt against the culture and join a group, which has its own pattern, you have to fit into that too.
一个人可能通过某些考试并找到一份工作，或者一个人可能接受职业教育。 但在心理上，一个人对自己一无所知。 一个人不快乐，痛苦，因为一个人没有得到这个或那个，一个人与丈夫或妻子吵架 —— 你知道那一切都在发生。 他们都是受过良好教育的读书人，忽视了生命的整个领域。 而没有受过教育的人也是这样。 你会接受教育 —— 我不知道为什么，但你会 —— 然后呢？过上舒适的生命？ 并不是说一个人反对舒适， 但是如果一个人在生命中寻求舒适，它就会变得相当粗劣，相当肤浅， 然而，你必须在很大程度上服从你所生活的文化体制。 如果你反抗这种文化，并加入某个拥有特定模式的团体，那么你也不得不适应那种模式。
Seeing that most human beings throughout the world want to be safe, secure, comfortable, lead a life of indulgence, a life in which they do not have too much opposition - where they conform superficially, but revolt against conforming, become superficially respectable but are inwardly rebellious, have a job, get married, have children and responsibility - but the mind wanting something much more than that, they are discontented, running from one thing to another. Seeing all of it, not just one segment, one fraction of it, but the whole of the map - what are you all going to do? Or is it a question that you cannot possibly answer at your age? - you are too young perhaps, with your own occupations, the other can wait
看，世界上大多数人 都想要安全、有保障、舒适，去过一种放纵的生活，一种没有太多反对的生活 —— 他们在表面上服从，却拒绝服从，表面上尊敬，内心却叛逆、 拥有一份工作、结婚、生子和担负责任 —— 但这颗头脑想要的远不止这些，他们不满足，从一个东西跑到另一个东西。 看到所有这一切，不仅是一个片段，它的一小部分，而是整张地图 —— 你们要去做什么？或者，这是一个在你所处的年龄段，还无法回答的问题？ —— 也许，你太年轻了，还没有自己的工作，可以再推后一些？
Q: One knows what one would like to do.
发问者：一个人知道自己喜欢做什么。
K: Do you know what you want to do?
克里希那穆提：你知道你想做什么吗？
Q: I know what I'd like to do.
发问者：我知道我喜欢做什么。
K: What would you like to do - like? I'd like to be the Queen of England! Or the greatest something or other and I can't. I haven't got the capacity. So when you say you'd like to do something that gives you pleasure, that gives you satisfaction, that is what everybody wants: comfort, pleasure, satisfaction. "This is what I want to do because I feel happy in doing it." And when you meet opposition along that path, you don't know how to meet it and then you try to escape from it.
克里希那穆提：你喜欢做什么 —— 比如？我想成为英国女王！ 或者最伟大的人物或类似的，虽然不可能。我没有那个能力。 所以，当你说你想做一些能给你带来快乐和满足的事情， 那就是每个人都想要的：舒适、愉悦、满足。 “这是我想做的事情，因为我觉得这样做很开心。” 当你在这条路上遭到反对，你不知道如何面对它，然后，你就试图逃避它。
You know, this is really a very difficult question, it is not easy to say what one would like to do. This is a very complex question, that is why I said: is this asking too much? Or, at your age, are you already beginning to have the inkling of what you want to do, not only for the next year but for the rest of your life?
要知道，这真的是一个非常难的问题，要说出一个人想做什么，并不容易。 这是一个非常复杂的问题，那就是为什么我说：这个问题太难了吗？ 或者，在你这个年纪，你是否已经开始知道你想要做什么， 不只是明年做什么，而且是你的余生？
Q: We are not too young.
发问者：我们已经不是小孩子了。
K: I don't know. I don't know whether you are too old or too young. It is for you to answer, not for me. I am putting this to you, for you to find out.
克里希那穆提：我不知道。我不知道你是太老还是太年轻。 你来回答它，不是我。我把这个问题给你，让你去找。
Q: Some of us are already too old. We are already shaped. Already we have had experiences, etc., that makes us all very bored with life.
发问者：我们中的一些人已经太老了。我们已经成型了。 我们已经有一些体验等等，那让我们都对生命感到非常厌倦。
K: You know, the other day we were talking about the fact that we are always thinking about ourselves. And when you are thinking about yourself, isn't it generally round what gives you the greatest pleasure? "I want to do that, because it is going to give me tremendous satisfaction." So how do you meet all these things? Shouldn't you be educated, not only in geography, history, mathematics and all the rest of it, but also in this field, where you have to discover for yourself how to live in this monstrous world - isn't that part of education? Now how could you set about educating yourself to meet this life? Do you expect somebody else to educate you, as they educate you in mathematics and other subjects?
克里希那穆提：你知道，前几天我们在谈论这个事实：我们总是在考虑我们自己。 当你考虑你自己的时候，通常不就是围绕着“什么能给你带来最大的快乐”吗？ “我想那样做，因为它会给我带来极大的满足感。” 那么你如何满足所有这些事情呢？ 难道你不应该接受教育，不仅是地理、历史、数学和所有其他方面， 而且也在这个领域，这是你必须亲自去发现如何生活在这个可怕的世界中 —— 这难道不是教育的一部分吗？ 现在，你怎样开始教育你自己来面对这种生命？ 您是否期望他人，像他们在数学和其他科目上教育您一样教育您？
Q: No.
发问者：不。
K: No? You are quite sure? If nobody is going to educate you in the psychological, inward way of living, how are you going to do it? How are you going to educate yourself? You know what is happening in the world? Apart from the monstrosities and wars and butcheries and all the terrible things that are going on, people who think they know are trying to educate you - not in the technological world: that is clear, simple and factual.
克里希那穆提：不？你确定吗？ 如果没人在心理上、在内在层面上教育你怎么生活，你会怎么做？ 你打算如何教育你自己？你知道世界上正在发生什么吗？ 除了怪物、战争、屠杀以及正在发生的所有可怕的事情之外， 自以为是的人正在试图教育你 —— 不是在技术领域：那是清楚的、简单的和真实的。
The other day on television some bishop said: the knowledge of God is love and if you don't have knowledge of God you can't live, life becomes meaningless. You follow? Now there is that statement made most emphatically by a well-known bishop, or whatever he was, and I listened to it and I said: I am learning, I want to find out. I want to be educated. And he has reasonable explanations and you look at his collar, or his coat, or his beret, and you say, "Oh, he is a priest, he is an old man, he is repeating old stuff" - that is nothing, and you push him away. And then a man comes along and offers you a pattern of living (listen to all this, please) which seems reasonable, logical and because of his personality, the way he looks, dresses, walks - you know all the tricks - you say, "Yes, he has got something." And you listen to him. And through the very act of listening you are being conditioned by what he says, aren't you?
前些天在电视上，一位主教说： “认识上帝就是爱，如果你不认识上帝，你就无法生活，生命就变得毫无意义。” 你理解吗？现在，这个陈述是一个著名的主教最强调的说法， 我听到了它，我说：我正在学习，我想去找出。我想接受教育。 他有合理的解释，你看看他的衣领，或者他的外套，或者他的贝雷帽， 你会说，“哦，他是个牧师，他是个老人，他在重复旧东西。” —— 那是没用的东西，于是你把他推开。 然后，一个人走过来，为你提供一种生活方式（请听这一切），它听起来是合理的、合乎逻辑的， 而且由于他的个性、他的外表、穿着、走路方式 —— 你知道所有这些技巧 —— 你说， “是的，他有些本事。” 于是你听他的。 通过这种听的行为，你受到了他所说的话的影响，你没有吗？
Q: It depends how you listen.
发问者：这取决于你如何去听。
K: If you don't know how to listen to that bishop, you will say, "How reasonable, he says we have lived this way for two thousand years, this is the right way, with the knowledge of God." I listen to him and there is something that appeals to me and I accept it. I have been influenced by him. And I am also influenced by a man who says, "Do this and you will have enlightenment." So I am being influenced all round. What shall I do? I want to educate myself because I see very well nobody is going to educate me in that field. Because they have never educated themselves, they have never gone into themselves and examined, explored, searched out, looked and watched, but they have always conformed to a pattern. And they are trying to teach me how to live within that pattern, whether it is the Zen pattern, or the Christian, or the communist pattern; they have not educated themselves in the sense we are talking about, though they may be clever in argument and in dialectics. So as nobody is going to help me to educate myself inwardly, how shall I begin?
克里希那穆提：如果你不知道如何听那个主教的话， 你会说，“多么有道理，他说我们已经这样生活了两千多年， 拥有上帝的知识，就是正确的方式。” 我听他的，有某些东西吸引了我，我接受了。我受到他的影响。 我也受到另一个人的影响，他说：“这样做，你就会开悟。” 因此，我受到各方面的影响。我该怎么办？ 我想教育我自己，因为我很清楚没有人会在那个领域教育我。 因为他们从来没有教育过他们自己， 他们从来没有深入到他们自己的内在，去检视、探索、寻找、查看、观察， 却总是在服从一种模式。他们试图教我在那种模式中如何生活， 无论是禅宗的模式，或者基督教，共产主义的模式； 他们没有像我们所说的那样教育他们自己，尽管他们在争吵和辩论方面可能很聪明。 既然没有人会帮助我进行内在的教育，我该如何开始呢？
And I see, if I don't do that I become a lopsided human being. I may be very good at writing an essay and getting a degree - then what? And the whole of the rest of my life is neglected. So how shall I educate myself, become mature in a field where very few people have taken the trouble to investigate, to enquire? Or they have done it and imposed their thinking on others, not helped them to find out for themselves. I don't know if you see that. Do you understand what I am talking about? Freud, Jung, Adler and other analysts, who have gone into this and stated some facts, traced all behaviour to childhood conditioning and so on - they have laid down a certain pattern and you can investigate in that direction and get more information, but it is not you learning about yourself. You are learning according to somebody else. So how will you set about it? - knowing what life is, what is happening in the world: wars, antagonism, politicians, priests, the hippies with their little bit of philosophy, the people who take drugs, the makers of communes and the hatred between various classes. Take all that outwardly; and inwardly people are ambitious, greedy, envious, brutal, violent, exploiting each other. These are facts, I am not exaggerating.
我看到，如果我不那样做，我就会变成一个不平衡的人。 我可能非常擅长写论文并获得学位 —— 然后呢？我的余生都被忽视了。 因此，我应该如何教育我自己，使自己在心理领域上，在这个很少有人不厌其烦地去调查、去询问的领域上成熟？ 或者他们已经这样做了，并将他们的想法强加于别人，而不是在帮助人们亲自去找答案。 我不知道你是否看到那一点。你理解我在说什么吗？ 弗洛伊德、荣格、阿德勒和其他分析家，他们已经深入这些并陈述了某些事实， 将所有行为追溯到童年的局限，等等 —— 他们已经制定了某种模式，你可以朝那个方向调查并获得更多信息， 但这不是你在学习理解你自己。你是在按照某个人的方式学习。 那么你将如何着手呢？—— 知道生命是什么，这个世界正在发生什么： 战争、敌对、政客们、牧师们、学了点哲学的嬉皮士们、 吸毒的人、社团的制造者以及各种阶级之间的仇恨。把那一切都放在外面； 而内在的世界里，人们是野心勃勃的、贪婪的、嫉妒的、野蛮的、暴力的、互相剥削的。 这些都是事实，我没有夸大其词。
Now seeing all this, what shall I do? Shall I conform to some pattern which is comforting, which is what I want to do, a fulfilment for myself? Because if you don't have a certain spark, a flame in you now at the age of fifteen, sixteen, twenty or twenty-five, it is going to be very difficult when you are fifty. Then it is much more difficult to change. So, what shall I do? How shall I face all this, look at it, listen to all the terrible noise in the world? - the priests, the technicians, the clever men, the workers, the strikes that are going on. Shall I choose a particular noise that appeals to me and follow that noise for the rest of my life? What shall I do? This is a tremendous problem, it is not a simple problem.
现在看到这一切，我该怎么办？ 我是否应该服从某种令人欣慰的模式，某种我想做的、能给自己带来满足的模式？ 因为，如果在你十五、十六、二十或二十五岁的时候，你里面没有这种火花，这种火焰， 那么，到了你五十岁的时候，那将是非常困难的。那时候，要有所改变就困难得多。 因此，我该怎么做？我该如何面对这一切，如何看它，如何听着这个世界上的所有可怕的噪音： —— 这些牧师门、技术员门、聪明的人、工人们、正在进行的罢工？ 我是否应该选择一种吸引我的特定噪音，并在我的余生中追寻这种噪音？ 我该怎么办？这是一个巨大的问题，它不是一个简单的问题。
Q: I want to experiment.
发问者：我想去实验。
K: Experiment?
克里希那穆提：实验？
Q: Well let things come to me.
发问者：好吧，让事情来找我吧。
K: Listen to what I am saying. "Seeing all this, I don't know what to do. Not knowing what to do, I am going to find an easy way out - I generally do." Don't fool yourself. This is a tremendously complex problem.
克里希那穆提：听我在说什么。“看到这一切，我不知道该怎么办。 既然不知道怎么办，我会找到一条简单的出路 —— 我通常这样做。” 不要自欺欺人。这是一个极其复杂的问题。
Q: But to find the easy way out is still not real.
发问者：但是找到这种简单的出路仍然不真实。
K: Wait, I am not at all sure. I face it all this tremendous roar that is going on, the shouting, the pushing, and I find there is an easy way out, I become a monk. That is what is happening in certain parts of the world, because people don't trust politicians, scientists, technicians, preachers any more. They say, "I am going to withdraw from all this and become a solitary monk with a begging bowl" - they are doing it in India. Or not knowing what to do, you drift. Do you know what that word means? - to carry on from day to day, not to bother. Or if you must find a way out you force yourself, or you join a group that thinks it is tremendously advanced. Is that what you are all going to do?
克里希那穆提：等等，我一点也不确定。 我面对这一切正在发生的巨大咆哮、呼喊、推挤， 我发现有一个简单的出路，我成为了一名和尚。 那就是世界某些地区正在发生的事情， 因为人们不再信任政治家、科学家、技术人员、传教士。 他们说：“我要退出这一切，成为一个拿着乞讨碗的孤独僧侣” —— 在印度，他们这样做。 或者不知道该做什么，你就漂泊。你知道这个词是什么意思吗？ —— 日复一日地继续，而不去操心。 或者，如果你必须找到出路，你就迫使你自己， 或者，加入一个认为它非常先进的社团。 那是你们所有的人要去做的事情吗？
If I had a daughter or a son here, that would be my concern as a parent, I would feel tremendously concerned. And Brockwood is concerned - to me this is tremendously important. You can all go to colleges and universities and get a degree and a job. But that is too simple, it is a way out of it that doesn't solve anything either. So if I had a son or a daughter, I would ask, "How are they going to be educated in the field where they themselves don't take an interest?" And the others don't know how to help them to understand that enormous field that has been neglected.
如果我在这里有一个女儿或一个儿子， 作为父母，那会是我的关切，我会感到巨大的关切。 关切这所学校 —— 对我来说，这非常重要。 你们都能够上学院和大学，获得学位和工作。 但是，那些太简单了，它是一种解决不了任何问题的途径。 因此，如果我有儿子或女儿，我会问： “在这个他们没有兴趣的领域，他们将如何受到教育？” 而别人不知道如何帮助他们理解这个被忽视的巨大领域。
So I know what I would do in the sense that I would say to a daughter or son: Look, listen to all this, listen to all the noise that is going on in the world, don't take sides, don't jump to any conclusions but just listen. Don't say one noise is better than another noise; they are all noises, so just listen, first. And listen also to your own noise, your chattering, your wishes - "I want to be this and I don't want to be that" - find out what it means to listen. Find out, don't be told. Discuss it with me and find out what it means first. Find out what it means to think, why you think, what is the background of your thinking. Watch yourself, don't become self-centred in that watching. Be tremendously concerned in watching, which is further enlargement of oneself.
所以，我知道我会怎么做，就像我会对女儿或儿子说： 看，听这一切，听这个世界发出的所有喧嚣， 不加入任何一方，不跳进任何结论，只是听。 别说这个噪音比另一个噪音好；它们都是噪音，只是听，这是第一步。 只是听，也听你自己的噪音，你的喋喋不休，你的愿望 —— “我想成为这样，我不想成为那样” —— 听，并找出它的含义。 找出来，别让旁人告诉你。与我讨论它，首先找出它的含义。 找出思考的含义，你为什么思考，你思考的背景是什么。 观察你自己，在那观察中，不要以“我”为中心。 在观察中，保持极大的关切，进一步深入自身的观察。
Q: Did you say to be tremendously concerned with watching is further enlargement of the self?
发问者：你是说：在观察中，极大的关切是自身的进一步延展？
K: I said watch yourself. If I were a parent I would be tremendously concerned with the problem, the question how to educate people in this field where there is no real understanding or help. That is what I meant. But I said later on: if you watch yourself there is a danger of self-centredness - a tremendous danger. I must watch that too.
克里希那穆提：我说，要观察你自己。 如果我是家长，我会非常关切这个问题： 如何在没有自我认识或得到帮助的情况下，在这个领域教育人们。 那就是我说的意思。但是，之后我说： 如果你观察你自身，就存在“以自我为核心”的危险 —— 一种巨大的危险。 我也必须观察那个核心。
I also said I would discuss with the group, find out how you think, why you think and what you think. Not in order to change it, not to suppress it, not to overcome it, but to find out why you think at all. Go on, question it! I don't know if you have noticed that most books, all the social, religious, moral, ethical structure, the relationship between man and man and all the rest of it, are based on thinking.
我说也，我们会一起讨论， 找出你是怎么思考的，你为什么这么想，以及你所想的内容。 不是为了改变它，不是去压制它，不是去克服它，而是为了找出“你为什么要去思考”。 继续，质疑它！我不知道你有没有注意到 大多数的书籍、所有的社会、宗教、道德、伦理结构、 人与人之间的关系等所有的事物，都建立在思考的基础上的。
Q: Yes.
发问者：是的。
K: "This is right, this is wrong, this should be, this must not be" - it is based on the structure of thought. Are you quite sure? - don't agree with me.
克里希那穆提：“这是对的，这是错的，这是应该的，这肯定不对” —— 它基于这种思想结构。你非常确定吗？—— 不要同意我。
Now I want to find out if that is the way of living, to base everything on thought, on what I like and what I don't like, what I want to do, what I don't want to do. Probably you never think about it. Think about it now.
现在，我想知道，难道这就这样生活？所有的一切都基于思想， 基于我“喜欢什么”和“不喜欢什么”、我“想做什么”和“不想做什么”？ 可能你从来没有想过它。现在，思考它。
Q: Because your thinking is either you want to, or you don't want to. It all comes from the 'self'.
发问者：因为你的想法要么是你想要的，要么是你不想要的。 这一切都来自于“我”。