Aside: This series of talks by Krishnamurti represents the first time that he has permitted any of his talks or public appearances to be filmed.

旁白：本视频是克里希那穆提讲话集。

This program titled: "Questioning", was filmed at the Thacher School in the Ojai Valley in California.

其主题是"质疑", 拍摄于坐落于加州的奥哈义山谷的撒切尔学校.

Q: as we saw him last week, I now present him to you - Mr Krishnamurti. K: all the things we talked about the other morning, you know, it is really quite difficult to ask questions.

问：正如我们上周所见，现在我把他呈现给你们 —— 克里希那穆提先生。 克：我们那天早上谈到的所有事情，你知道，提问真的相当困难。

And one must ask questions, right through life. The more we ask, the greater the understanding between ourselves and our life.

而且一个人必须提问，贯穿整个生命。 我们问得越多，我们自身与生活之间的理解就越大。

And also we should, I think, in asking questions, and in replying and understanding of that question, one should have a spot of scepticism.

而且我认为，在提问、回答和理解那个问题的过程中， 一个人还应该带有一点怀疑精神。

One can ask question intellectually, argumentatively, to sharpen one's own brains at the expense of somebody else.

一个人可以为了以牺牲他人为代价来磨砺自己的头脑，而进行智力上、辩论式的提问。

So I hope you'll ask lots of questions, but to ask question, it must be the right question. A wrong question will inevitably have no answer at all.

所以我希望你们会问很多问题，但要提问，必须是正确的问题。 一个错误的问题必然根本没有答案。

But the right question, in the very asking of it, unfolds the understanding of it. And to ask the right question needs a great deal of intelligence, a great sensitivity, and a comprehension of the immense complexity of life.

但正确的问题，在你提出它的那一刻，就会展开对它的理解。 而要提出正确的问题，需要大量的智慧、巨大的敏感性， 以及对生命巨大复杂性的领会。

Anybody can ask a question, that's the easiest thing to do. But to ask that question and to go to the very end of that question, not verbally or intellectually or merely emotionally, but as a whole, as a total problem and a total issue.

任何人都能提问，那是最容易做的事。 但要提出那个问题并走到那个问题的尽头 —— 不是口头地、智力地或仅仅是情感地， 而是作为一个整体，作为一个完整的问题和完整的议题。

So I hope we can ask questions, and see how far we can get together on that.

所以我希望我们能提问， 看看我们能一起在那条路上走多远。

Q: I'd say that there is probably great hunger in India, as you said in your talk a couple of days ago. And I think I want to do something about it, and so I go to India and I try to help the people, and I try to help them overcome their hunger and things of this nature. But is it really doing that much good?

问：我想印度可能有巨大的饥饿问题，就像你几天前演讲中所说的。 而且我觉得我想对此做点什么，于是我去印度，尽力帮助那里的人们，努力帮助他们克服饥饿和这类问题。 但这真的有那么大的作用吗？

K: Your going or my going to India and helping a little bit here and there doesn't get anywhere. You might give food for half a dozen people. Q: Do your best.

克：你去或我去印度，在这里或那里帮一点小忙，解决不了任何问题。 你也许能给半打人提供食物。 问：尽你所能。

K: Do your best, but you can't... There are 470 million people and doing a little bit, it doesn't - I'm not laughing at it - it doesn't get anywhere. Now, what will solve the problem? What will?

克：尽你所能，但你无法……那里有4.7亿人，做那一点点事情 —— 我不是在嘲笑 —— 解决不了任何问题。 那么，什么才能解决这个问题？是什么？

What is the problem? Hunger. Hunger, lack of clothes, Hmm? shelter, all that. Now, how is it going to be solved? Not by a particular nation. As you and I can't solve... if we went to India, we couldn't solve it, no sovereign government is going to solve this, no Indian government is going to solve it, they can pretend, and they do. Hmm?

问题是什么？ 饥饿。饥饿、缺乏衣物，嗯？住所，等等。 那么，这个问题将如何解决？ 不是靠某个特定的国家。 因为你我都无法解决……如果去了印度，我们也无法解决， 没有一个主权政府能解决这个问题，没有哪个政府能解决， 他们可以假装，他们也确实在假装。不是吗？

So, what is preventing the solution of this problem is nationalism - my flag, your flag, my country, your country. Hmm? and the division that takes place geographically, which is exploited by the politician. That is the factor, one of the major factors of preventing the solution of starvation, of feeding the people.

所以，阻碍这个问题解决的是民族主义 —— 我的国旗、你的国旗、我的国家、你的国家。嗯？ 以及地理上的分裂，这被政客所利用。 这就是那个因素，是阻碍解决饥饿、养活人类问题的主要因素之一。

Now, science has means of giving food, clothes and shelter practically to everybody. Hmm? It's not being done because you are a British, I'm an Indian or Russian, we have our ideology and you have your ideology - your king and my king, your army and my army, all that is preventing us. so it's a world problem, not individual or nationalistic problem.

现在，科学有办法实际给每个人提供食物、衣服和住所。嗯？ 但没有做到，因为你是英国人，我是印度人或俄国人， 我们有我们的意识形态，你们有你们的意识形态 —— 你的国王和我的国王，你的军队和我的军队，所有这些都在阻碍我们。 所以这是一个世界问题，不是个人或民族主义问题。

Q: All right. How do you suppose that we'll be able to overcome these nationalistic barriers? K: First, one has to be free of it oneself. Q: Yes, but I don't see how... K: Wait, wait, wait. one has to be free of it oneself - neither American nor Indian, nor...

问：好吧。你建议我们如何才能克服这些民族主义障碍？ 克：首先，一个人必须自己从中解脱出来。 问：是的，但我不明白怎么…… 克：等等，等等。一个人必须自己从中解脱出来 —— 既不是美国人也不是印度人，也不……

Then get up and talk, shout, do anything, not for the little things, but for the major issues. Then perhaps, you'll sow some seed that will take root. That's all.

然后站起来说话、呐喊、做任何事，不是为了小事，而是为了重大问题。 那么也许你会播下一些会生根的种子。仅此而已。

Now, if every human being, educated, cultured, who is really serious, wants to solve this problem, he will do something.

现在，如果每一个受过教育、有教养、真正认真的人想要解决这个问题，他就会做些什么。

Like war, We have accepted war as the way of life. All man has, throughout centuries. And to stop war, if one is concerned with the whole process of living, as a human being, then perhaps we will be able to solve this question of war.

就像战争，我们已经接受了战争作为生活方式。 这是整个人类几千年来一直如此。 而要停止战争，如果一个人作为人类，关心整个生活的过程， 那么也许我们就能解决战争这个问题。

Q: You spoke last week of man achieving a clarity of mind and a broader view of life. But it seems to me that one could achieve this clarity of mind and a greater, deeper understanding of life, if you were to try to attack a certain part of it and then see the result, and therefore understand what happened more deeply, and increase the understanding.

问：你上周谈到人达到心智的清明和更广阔的生命观。 但在我看来， 如果你尝试去处理生命的某个部分，然后看到结果，从而更深入地理解发生了什么，并增进理解， 那么一个人是可以达到这种心智的清明和对生命更伟大、更深刻的理解的。

K: I understand. You mean there are these fragments - business, religious, political, science, and so on - fragments.

克：我明白。 你的意思是存在着这些碎片 —— 商业、宗教、政治、科学等等碎片。

Now, and by going through each fragment, hmm? you would understand the whole thing. Q: Yes, through participation... K: Participation in each fragment. Q: Yes. K: Now, wait, do you know what that implies? How long would it take for each person, for every individual to take each fragment and go through it, understand it? Q: To me, it seems to be impossible to understand it completely. K: Impossible, completely impossible.

那么，通过检视每一个碎片，你就会理解整体。 问：是的，通过参与…… 克：参与每一个碎片。 问：是的。 克：现在，等等，你知道这意味着什么吗？ 每个人、每个个体需要多长时间才能拿起每一个碎片，经历它，理解它？ 问：在我看来，完全理解它似乎是不可能的。 克：不可能，完全不可能。

And therefore they say "let us put all these fragments together", which again is impossible. You can't by a few fragments make the whole. So, how do you then understand something totally?

因此他们说“让我们把所有碎片拼在一起”，这同样是不可能的。 你无法用几个碎片拼成整体。 那么，你如何才能完整地理解某事物呢？

First of all, let's be clear: A fragment can never make the whole. Right? And putting the fragments together is not the whole. And also, that One that it is not necessary to go through all these. Right?

首先，让我们弄清楚：一个碎片永远无法构成整体。对吗？ 把碎片拼在一起也不是整体。 而且，也没有必要经历所有这些。对吗？

Through all the fragments, it's like saying: you must get drunk to understand what sobriety is. Hmm? And life is too short, you can't go through all of it.

经历所有碎片，就像说： 你必须喝醉才能理解清醒是什么。嗯？ 而生命太短暂，你无法经历它的全部。

So if that is clear, then, how does one see the whole of something, whole of life? Life including sorrow, death, love, family, polictics, economics, amusement, entertainment, the misery - all that.

所以如果这一点清楚了，那么，一个人如何看待某事物的整体、生命的整体？ 生命包括悲伤、死亡、爱、家庭、政治、经济、娱乐、消遣、苦难 —— 所有这一切。

How do you see the whole of it? You go into it, sir, how do you see it? How would you, if that was a question, a serious question which you have to tackle?

你如何看待它的整体？ 你深入其中，先生，你是如何看的？ 如果那是一个你必须处理的严肃问题，你会怎么做？

Q: What if you say that you couldn't? K: Wait, wait. The moment you say that you cannot or can, you're finished. You stop investigating.

问：如果你说你不能呢？ 克：等等，等等。 当你说你“不能”或“能”的那一刻，你就完了。 你停止了探究。

When you say "I can't." you've blocked yourself. Q: But you can understand more and more of it. K: Not by blocking yourself.

当你说“我不能”时，你堵塞了自己。 问：但你可以越来越多地理解它。 克：不是通过堵塞自己。

Look, sir, if I say there is no God, hmm? I've blocked myself, haven't it? Or if I say there is God, I've blocked myself. But if I say I really don't know, let's find out, then I've the energy to go into it. Right?

看，先生，如果我说没有上帝，嗯？我堵塞了自己，不是吗？ 或者说有上帝，我也堵塞了自己。 但如果我说我真的不知道，让我们去弄清楚，那么我就有能量去探究它。对吗？

Now, so don't let's say yes or no, don't let us take sides about it. Now, how would you see the totality of something, of life? You know, get a grasp, a feeling of it. a touch of it, a smell of it?

所以，现在我们不要说对或错，不要在这上面选边站。 那么，你怎样才能看到某事物、生命的整体？ 你知道，抓住它、感受它、触摸它、嗅到它？

Q: Well, as I said, by trying to take more and more of it, and understand more and more of it. K: Ah! You have no time. Q: I know, that's the problem. K: That's the problem, of course.

问：嗯，就像我说的，通过试图一点一点地把握它，越来越多地理解它。 克：啊！你没有时间。 问：我知道，这就是问题所在。 克：当然，那就是问题所在。

Q: You're saying that you can't look at it that way. K: That's what I said at the beginning. I mean, if I take time, you know, it will be impossible. Now, eliminate time. You follow what we are doing? We are not, we are eliminating time - gradually get it - we are also eliminating fragmentary approaches, right?

问：你是说你不能那样看待它。 克：这就是我一开始说的。我的意思是，如果我花时间，你知道，那是不可能的。 现在，消除时间。你明白我们在做什么吗？ 我们正在消除时间 —— 渐渐地做， 我们也正在摒弃碎片化的方法，对吗？

And also we are eliminating the idea that when we put it all together, we'll get understanding.

而且我们也在消除那种观念： 当我们把一切拼凑起来，我们就能得到理解。

You have approached this problem with the habitual tools, and you have eliminated those tools, not because you are prejudiced against them. Hmm? but you see that they won't answer.

你一直用习惯性的工具来处理这个问题， 而你已经摒弃了这些工具，不是因为你对他们有偏见。嗯？ 而是你看到它们无法解答。

Now. When you have eliminated them, because they do not answer. Your mind is sharper, isn't it? Q: If you're on the right track. K: Of course. You have eliminated them. Haha, Right? Q: Right.

现在，当你摒弃了它们，因为它们无法解答。 你的心智更敏锐了，不是吗？ 问：如果你在正确的轨道上。 克：当然。你已经摒弃了它们。哈哈，对吗？ 问：对。

K: Your mind is very sharp, because it is no longer following the traditional approach. Right? Q: but he must have some experience of the whole in order to see the whole thing. K: Ah, no, no. To see the whole thing you need a very sharp mind, very clear mind, a mind that's not biased, a mind that doesn't say "This I like, this I don't like."

克：你的心智非常敏锐，因为它不再遵循传统的方法。对吗？ 问：但他必须对整体有一些体验才能看到整体。 克：啊，不，不。要看到整体，你需要一个非常锐利的心智， 一个非常清晰的心智，一个没有偏见的心智， 一个不会说“我喜欢这个，我不喜欢那个”的心智。

Q: The mind that is in a pattern or expects to be led, it won't ever see the complete truth, but does that necessarily mean that the mind that is free will see the truth? K: If you want to see the view of that valley from the hill, you take a survey of the whole thing, don't you? Hmm?

问：处于模式中或期待被引导的心智，永远看不到完整的真相， 但这是否必然意味着自由的心智就会看到真相？ 克：如果你想从山上看那个山谷的景色， 你会纵观整个景象，不是吗？嗯？

That means your mind is no longer merely fixed on the Thacher School or a particular school, you look at the whole valley.

那意味着你的心智不再仅仅固定在撒切尔学校或某个特定的学校， 你得看整个山谷。

So here is a whole complex map of life: business... all the rest of that, very complex. And to understand the whole of that, you must be free to look.

所以这里有一张完整的、复杂的生活地图：商业……所有其他一切，非常复杂。 而要理解那整个，你必须自由地去看。

But you cannot look if you say "Well, it must be... " you can only look at it through a fragmentary approach.

但如果你说“嗯，它必须是……”，你就无法去看。 你只能通过碎片化的方式去看它。

therefore we say: free the mind from fear. As long as there is fear, that fear will take shelter in a belief - Christian or doesn't matter what belief Because fear demands comfort, security, hope, and all the rest of it.

因此我们说：让心智从恐惧中解脱。 只要存在恐惧，那份恐惧就会躲进某个信仰里 —— 基督教的, 无论什么信仰都无所谓。 因为恐惧需要舒适、安全、希望等等。

So, being afraid of something, death or something else, that fear must take shelter in something.

所以，对某事 —— 死亡或其他事情 —— 感到恐惧， 那份恐惧必须躲进某个东西里。

Therefore whether you believe in reincarnation or not, or some other belief, is the same. All belief is the same, because they are essentially born out of this fear.

因此，无论你是否相信轮回或其他信仰，都是一样的。 所有信仰都一样，因为它们本质上都源于这种恐惧。

So really the question is: can fear be eliminated altogether? And that's why the religous and the ancient cultures have said: believe, not knowing.

所以真正的问题是：恐惧能否被彻底消除？ 这就是为什么宗教和古代文化会说：去相信，而不是去知道。

Q: When you eliminate the fear of death in the mind, one must know what death is. K: Ah, must you? How can you know? Wait, sir, how can you know what death is when the mind is afraid of death, when I'm afraid of you? Q: But you can't... get rid of your fear unless you know what it is.

问：当你在心中消除对死亡的恐惧时，一个人必须知道死亡是什么。 克：啊，你必须吗？你怎么能知道？ 等等，先生，你怎么能知道死亡是什么呢，当心智害怕死亡时，当我害怕你时？ 问：但你不能…… 除非你知道它是什么，否则无法摆脱恐惧。

K: Wait, sir, wait. I'm afraid of you, and therefore I always take shelter, I never look at you, right? I barricade myself, I invent a lot of ideas, prevent myself from looking at you, right?

克：等等，先生，等等。我害怕你，因此我总是躲起来，我从不看你，对吗？ 我筑起路障，我发明很多观念，阻止自己看你，对吗？

I can only look at you when I have no fear. And what am I afraid of?

只有当我没有恐惧时，我才能看你。而我害怕的是什么？

Not of death, but of something I have known - my family, my job, my daily routine, the things I have, and I'm afraid of losing them.

不是死亡，而是我已知的某些东西 —— 我的家庭、我的工作、我的日常生活、我拥有的东西，我害怕失去它们。

Q: I'd like to know your thoughts on death. K: It's really quite a complex problem, you can't just... my thought or your thought.

问：我想知道你对死亡的看法。 克：这确实是一个非常复杂的问题，你不能只是……我的想法或你的想法。

I think opinion has very little place when we are faced with direct things of life. Most of us are guided by our personal inclination or personal idiosyncrasy, or compelled by circumstances - which are all a very small affair - but problem like death is a problem of man, whether he lives in China, India, or in Russia or here.

我认为，当我们面对直接的生活事物时，意见几乎没有立足之地。 我们大多数人被自己的个人倾向或个人特质所引导，或者被环境所迫 —— 这些都是很小的事情 —— 但像死亡这样的问题，是人的问题，无论他生活在中国、印度、俄国还是这里。

It's a problem which man has struggled with through centuries upon centuries. And the Egyptions, for instance, lived for them death was much more important than living.

这是一个人类挣扎了无数世纪的问题。 例如，埃及人，对他们来说，死亡比活着重要得多。

And there are whole communities right through the world, historically - and also when one has lived in a country like in India, where culture is very, very ancient - they've all kinds of ideas, beliefs, dogmas aobut death.

而且从历史上看，全世界有整个整个的社群 —— 此外，当一个人生活在像印度这样文化非常非常古老的国家时 —— 他们对死亡有各种各样的观念、信仰、教条。

Death being... one is frightened of it, frightened of that thing called death, which is going to put an end to everything. So they invent theories, like reincarnation. You know something about it?

死亡是…… 人害怕它，害怕那个叫做死亡的东西，它会终结一切。 所以他们发明了理论，比如轮回。 你对此有所了解吗？

Either you choose that or the Christion belief, which depends upon your conditioning. If you are a Christian, naturally brought up in a Christian world, you'll accept that, the Christian dogma.

你要么选择那个，要么选择基督教信仰，这取决于你的制约。 如果你是基督徒，自然地在一个基督教世界中长大，你就会接受那个，基督教的教条。

Now if one can put aside, the Asiatic belief and the Christian belief, and every form of personal hope and despair, then we can investigate the meaning of death.

现在，如果一个人能够抛开亚洲的信仰、基督教的信仰，以及每一种形式的个人希望和绝望， 那么我们就可以探究死亡的意义。

You see, as long as there is fear, the unknown, death, becomes a tragic affair. I don't know if... So, is it possible, first, to eliminate psychological fear altogether?

你看，只要存在恐惧，未知、死亡就变成了一桩悲剧。 我不知道是否…… 那么，首先，是否有可能彻底消除心理上的恐惧？

That's quite a... I won't go into all that. Unless that is done, systematically, with clarity, without any arrie-pens, without any holding back from this problem of fear, then one can go into this question of death very, very deeply.

那是一个相当……我不打算展开讲那些。 除非那件事被完成，系统地、清晰地，没有任何顾虑，没有任何对这个恐惧问题的退缩， 那么一个人才能非常非常深入地探究死亡这个问题。

But otherwise you are caught in a rationalisation, or in the whole of the Asian belief of reincarnation or the Christian belief, or you're just... you don't care.

否则你就会陷入合理化， 或者陷入整个亚洲的轮回信仰或基督教信仰，或者你只是……你不在乎。

But it seems to me a society or a community or a group of people who are not concerned with death, who don't understand, have no foothold in life.

但在我看来，一个不关心死亡、不理解死亡的社会、社群或一群人， 在生命中没有立足之地。

You know what I mean? Have nothing, therefore they become terribly superficial, as what's happening in this country, terribly mundane, physical, and no culture can stand that.

你明白我的意思吗？ 他们一无所有，因此变得极其肤浅，就像这个国家正在发生的情况一样， 极其世俗、物质，没有哪种文化能承受得了。

Q: Do you agree that the fear of death is the fear of losing your possessions, the joys of life? K: Partly. Q: Well, if that is so, then the person who has reached the state of clarity, who has cast off all his fears, and fear of death, therefore he wouldn't... the joys of life wouldn't mean anything to him. K: Oh! Q: Is that... K: Now, wait a minute, sir, why not? How do you lose the fear of death? Q: By not caring about the things that you...

问：你同意吗，对死亡的恐惧就是害怕失去你的财产、生活的快乐？ 克：部分是。 问：嗯，如果是这样，那么那个已经达到清明状态、摆脱了所有恐惧（包括对死亡的恐惧）的人，因此他不会…… 生活的快乐对他来说毫无意义。 克：哦！问：是这样吗…… 克：现在，等一下，先生，为什么不会呢？ 你是如何失去对死亡的恐惧的？ 问：通过不在乎你所……

K: Ah, no, no. There must be much more positive action than that. You must die every day. Hmm.

克：啊，不，不。必须有比那积极得多的行动。 你必须每天都死去。嗯。

Die every day to the things that you call pleasure and pain, to the things which you have cherished - die. Otherwise, look at it, sir, what are you? A bundle of memories, aren't you, Ah?

每天对你称之为快乐和痛苦的事物死去，对你所珍爱的事物死去——死去。 否则，看看这个，先生，你是什么？一堆记忆的集合，不是吗，啊？

Experiences, knowledge, information and that you carry on all the day long, all the years. And that bundle of memories keeps the mind very dull, stupid, it's not fresh.

经验、知识、信息，你日复一日、年复一年地携带着它们。 而那堆记忆让心智非常迟钝、愚笨，不新鲜。

But if you say "Well, I'll put away all my bundles." Hmm? Each day, your mind is extraordinarily alert. Yes, sir?

但如果你说“好吧，我会放下我所有的包袱”。 嗯？每天，你的心智都异常警觉。 对吗？

Q: Sir, if you were to do this, die every day and to get rid of all your fears, to reach this clarity of mind, and have an extremely sharp mind, would not you then be completely isolated from anything, from thw world, from life?

问：先生，如果你这样做 —— 每天都死去，摆脱你所有的恐惧， 达到这种心智的清明，拥有一个极其敏锐的心智 —— 那你岂不是会变得与一切、与世界、与生命完全隔绝？

K: All right, Why should you not be isolated? what is the world? Q: Well, that's fine. I think it can be very good. But then, if you are going to do anything with this clarity of mind, such as change the world...

克：好吧，你为什么不应该被隔绝呢？世界是什么？ 问：嗯，那没问题。我认为那可以非常好。 但是，如果你要用这种清明的头脑去做任何事情，比如改变世界……

K: Then you will change it, then you will talk, write, push. But you won't belong to the messy world.

克：那么你就会改变它，你就会讲话、写作、推动。 但你不会属于这个混乱的世界。

Q: But in order to change it, you do have to approach a part of it. K: Approach... Again, take the whole of it, not just parts of it. Tackle the whole issue, not just one partial issue. Q: So far no one has been able to do this. K: Then let's do it. Haha.

问：但为了改变它，你必须接触它的一部分。 克：接触……再一次，要处理它的整体，而不仅仅是它的部分。 处理整个问题，而不仅仅是一个局部问题。 问：到目前为止，还没有人能做到这一点。 克：那我们就去做吧。哈哈。

Q: Sir, you said, we have to approach everything with an open mind, and we mustn't take any point of view, that if we get confused we'll judge.

问：先生，你说过，我们必须以开放的心态对待一切， 我们不应该持任何观点，否则如果我们困惑了，我们就会评判。

Well, when you approach, say, what is life, with an open mind, you start and then you'll get one fragment you won't understand, you'll question it, and then you'll become confused, and you know, you'll have to judge. How are we supposed to do this without...

嗯，当你以开放的心态去探究，比如，什么是生命， 你开始了，然后你会遇到一个你不理解的碎片，你会质疑它，然后你就会变得困惑， 而且你知道，你不得不去评判。 我们怎样才能在不……的情况下做到这一点？

K: First of all, there are contradictory informations, hmm? One propagandist says one thing, another propagandist says another, the priest says something and the business man, the military man and the politician, everybody is contradicting the other, and you and people generally are the recipient of all that contradiction, hmm, right?

克：首先，存在相互矛盾的信息，嗯？ 一个宣传者说一件事，另一个宣传者说另一件事， 牧师说某件事，而商人、军人和政客说的又是别的， 每个人都在反驳另一个人， 而你以及一般人都是所有这些矛盾的接收者，嗯，对吗？

So what do you do? Q: Sir, we have to judge. K: Ah, no. You realise you are the result of all these contradictions. How can you judge when you're... No, I suggest, sir, I suggest first of all, is it possible not to be influenced at all? Q: No, sir. K: No, don't say no. You see, the moment you say no, you have already taken a stand.

那么你怎么办？ 问：先生，我们必须评判。 克：啊，不。你意识到你是所有这些矛盾的结果。 当你困惑时, 你怎能评判呢？ 因此，先生，我建议首先问自己是否能完全不受影响？ 问：不能的，先生。 克：别，别说“不”。 你看，当你说“不”的那一刻，你已经选边站队了。

Is it possible not to be influenced? Q: Find that out. K: And that's very difficult because we are the result of a thousand influences - food, climate, the culture in which you are born, and so on, so on.

是否可能不受影响？ 问：去弄清楚。 克：那非常困难，因为我们是千万种影响的结果 —— 食物、气候、你出生其中的文化，等等等等。

And we are the result of this terrific pressure and strains and influences. And I am that, you are that. And so how do you free yourself first from the influence, from your conditioning?

我们是这种巨大压力、紧张和影响的结果。 我就是那样，你也是那样。 那么，你首先要如何将自己从影响、从制约中解脱出来？

And then, you can ask the question: How am I to keep clear all the time of confusion? Then it's fairly simple, you are not confused.

然后，你就可以问这个问题： 我如何时刻保持清醒，远离困惑？ 在那时，它就相当简单了，因为你没了困惑。

Q: If we think that Jesus is the son of God, it limits us. If we think he was a man who taught wisely and tried to teach people, it helps us to understand him better. Do you think so? K: I should think so. Q: Now... K: No, to me, you see, sir, that is not of very great importance.

问：如果我们认为耶稣是上帝的儿子，那会限制我们。 如果我们认为他是一个智慧地教导并试图教导别人的人， 那有助于我们更好地理解他。你认为是这样吗？ 克：我想是的。 问：现在…… 克：不，对我来说，你看，先生，那不是非常重要。

What has great importance is not what somebody said or somebody did or did not. Can I as a human being, lead a different kind of life? That's all. That is the crucial point.

真正重要的是，不是某人说了什么或某人做了什么或没做什么。 我作为一个人，能否过一种不同的生活？ 仅此而已。这才是关键点。

Not what Budda, Christ, all those people have said - may be true, may not be true. What is important, what is essential and urgent is: Can I live a different life altogether?

不是佛陀、基督、所有那些人说过的话——可能对，也可能不对。 真正重要的、本质的、紧迫的是： 我能否过一种完全不同的生活？