May we continue with what we were talking about yesterday morning? Before we go into that, may I point out that, one should have quite a bit of scepticism, doubt, not accepting what the speaker is saying, but questioning, investigating, enquiring into what he is saying or what we are thinking ourselves, if there is any truth, if there is any falsehood or if what is being said is factual, which is applicable to daily life.

我们可以接着昨天早上的讲话继续吗？ 在我们开始之前，请允许我指出， 一个人应该保持相当地怀疑、不确定，不接受讲话人所讲的。 而是去质疑、调查、深入地探究他所说的或者我们所考虑的 —— 是否有一点儿道理，或者，都是些冒牌货， 或者，所说的是事实，是实际的，也就是适用于日常生活的。

So if one merely accepts words, as most of us do, we are collectors of words and phrases, and thereby we miss a great deal. So what we are talking about is that self-knowledge, that is knowing oneself, is the greatest importance, not according to some psychologist, analyst or according to the speaker but knowing oneself actually as one is.

如果一个人只是接受言词，正如我们大多数人所做的 —— 我们是词语、短语的收割者，因此，我们就错失了很多。 因此，我们正在探讨的是自我认识， 即认知自身，是最为要紧的， 不是根据某个心理学家、心理分析师或这个讲话人； 而是作为一个人，真切地知道本人。

Not denying nor accepting 'what is', but observing, looking into oneself very, very deeply. And whether what you find in yourself, not according to somebody else, but actually for yourself what you seeing and what you perceive in your actions, in your reactions and so on, to be aware of that, to know oneself. Knowing oneself implies, doesn't it? not having known and recognising 'what is'. That is, to discover oneself anew each time, not according to a remembrance of something that you have seen before in yourself and recognise it, and keep on recognising all the time. I hope I am making this clear.

不拒绝，也不接受‘什么是’，而是观察、观看一个人自己的里面，非常、非常地深入。 不管在里面找到了什么，不要跟随别人， 你得亲自上，在你的言行举止、你的反应等等中，真实地观看和感知， 意识到那，知道自己 —— 意味着自我认识，难道不是吗？ 不是已经认识，并认出它是什么。 而是在每一刻，重新发现自身， 不是根据你曾经见过的某一段记忆而认识它，并持续不断地认出它。 我希望把这一点说清楚了。

That is, I want to know myself because if I don't know myself there is no possibility of right action, right behaviour, or I have no foundation for any clarity. One can deceive so immensely, live in a kind of illusory world, a make-belief world, but to know oneself so completely frees the mind from all its entanglements, from all its worries, its everlasting chattering and so on.

那就是，我想知道我自己， 因为如果我不知道我自己， 就不可能有正确的动作、正确的行为， 或者，我就没有任何清明的基础。 一个人可以无底线地欺骗，活在一个虚幻的世界，一个信仰打造的世界。 但是，彻底地知道自己，就可以解放这个头脑， 从它所有的纷扰、它所有的忧郁、它无止歇的嘈杂声中解放出来。

In that enquiry, we were saying yesterday, we are driven by language. Language uses us rather than we use language. We went into that fairly thoroughly yesterday. And also we said that the speaker not being here, you yourself are speaking to yourself and listening to yourself to find out what exactly is going on within yourself, within the skin, within the psychological area of yourself. We know very well what is happening around us, at least if you are fairly well informed, but very few of us know exactly where we are, what our reactions are and if it is possible to go beyond them.

在昨天的那次调查中，我们说，我们被语言驱使。 语言在驱策我们，而不是我们在利用语言。我们昨天相当透彻地进入了那点。 我们也说到，这个讲话人不在这儿， 你，你自己在与你自己讲话，你在听你自身， 在你自己的里面、在肌肤之内，在你自己的心理领域， 探索那正在精确地进行的。 我们很清楚周围正在发生的，至少，当你消息灵通的时候是这样。 但是，少有人知道我们到底在哪里， 我们的反应是什么，以及是否有可能超越它们。

And also we were saying yesterday that the basic root of fear in which most of us live, is time. Chronological time as yesterday, today and tomorrow, and also the whole movement of thought. Those are the two factors which bring about fear. And the other factor in that is remembrance. The remembrance of a past fear and holding on to that remembrance and projecting a future fear. We were talking about that yesterday.

同时，我们昨天也谈到， 恐惧的根基是时间 次序上的时间，作为昨天、今天、明天，以及思想的整个移动。 有两个因素导致了恐惧。 另一个因素是记忆 曾经的恐惧被作为记忆，保留在大脑中，回想这段记忆，并投射出一个将来的恐惧。 那都是我们昨天讲过的。

So if we may we would like to go into further factors of ourselves. Most of us, psychologically, live in disorder. I do not know if you are not aware of it. We are driven by, not only language, but also by a great many pressures from outside - economic, social, political, national, the religious beliefs and so on. But psychologically the greatest pressure is desire with most of us.

因此，如果我们愿意，进入我们自己更深处的因子。 我们大多数人，在心理上，活在失序中， 我不知道你是否意识到了。 我们不仅被语言驱策，同时也承受着相当多的外部压力 —— 经济、社会、政治、民族、宗教信仰等等。 但是在心理上，对我们大部分人来说，最大的压力是欲望。

As we said yesterday, please we are communicating with each other. You are not merely listening to the person who is talking, who is not at all important. What is said is important, not the person. It is like if you have a telephone you don't give great importance to the telephone, you keep it clean but what is said through the telephone becomes all important.

正如我们昨天所说，请注意，我们正在相互交流。 你们不只是在听讲，这个在讲话的人一点都不重要。 重要的是所说出的东西，不是这个人。它就像 —— 如果你有一个手机， 你不是很看重这个手机，你会保持它干净， 但是，通过这个手机传递出来的信息，才是所有的重点。

Similarly, the person who is speaking here, is not at all important. I would like to point this out over and over again - the person is not important at all. But what is said is important. So your admiration for the person, or your dislike of the person, or your this, that, all that nonsense is of very little importance.

同样，在说话的这个人根本不重要， 我会不断地、一遍又一遍地指出这一点 —— 这个人一点也不重要。但他所说的才是重要的。 因此你对这个人的钦佩，或者，你对这个人的鄙视， 或者你的这个、那个、任何那些胡思乱想，一点都不重要！

You don't, if you have a good telephone, you don't smash it, you keep it clean, you respect it. But the telephone itself is of no value at all, but what is said through the telephone becomes significant. Similarly here the person is not important. Have you understood that clearly and definitely?

你不，如果你有一个好手机， 你不摔它，你使它保持干净，你尊重它。 但是这个手机本身，根本没有价值， 而从中传递出来的，才有意义。 同样地，这个人是不重要的。 你们理解吗，清楚吗？

We are saying we live in disorder, psychologically. We may have an orderly room, do proper exercises, do so-called yoga - I won't go into that word, what it means, how it began and all the rest of it, it is not the moment. But we keep order outwardly, apparently, but there is disorder, astonishing disorder in the world. Perhaps that disorder is brought about by each one's psychological disorder.

我们说，我们活在失序中，在心理上。 我们可能有一个整洁的房间，做适当的锻炼，做所谓的瑜伽 —— 我不会进入那个词，它的意思，它怎么开始和其余内容，还不到说它的时候。 尽管我们在外界、在外表上保持着秩序， 但也有失序，难以置信的失序在这个世界中。 也许那种失序是因为我们每个人的心理失序导致的。

Disorder means contradiction in oneself, thinking one thing, doing another, saying one thing and do the opposite to what you have said, or being uncertain, not clear, contradictory, and so on. All that indicates disorder. And also where there is contradiction there must be effort, where there is division there must be conflict and so on. All that is a state of disorder in which we live. That is an obvious fact.

失序意味着自身的矛盾，想一套做另一套， 说一出做另一出， 或者不确定、不清楚、相互矛盾、等等。 所有的那些，都指明了失序。 同样，哪里有矛盾，哪里就必定有努力， 哪里有分裂，哪里就有冲突，等等。 那一切，就是一种失序状态，就在我们的生活之中。 那是一个明显的事实。

And to bring about order psychologically, what is one to do? I hope you are challenging yourself, and not accepting my challenge. Knowing consciously, aware that one is in disorder psychologically, what is one to do? How is one to bring about order? Because without order, psychologically as well as outwardly, one must live in chaos - as the world, more and more, is becoming chaotic, destructive, violent, which shows a great deal of disorder in the world. And perhaps that disorder is projected by each one of us because we live in disorder.

要带来心理上的秩序，一个人该做什么？ 我希望你正在挑战你自己，而不是接受我的挑战。 清晰地意识，觉察到一个人在心理上的失序， 一个人做什么？一个人怎样带来秩序？ 因为没有心理层面上和物质层面上的秩序，那么，一个人必定活在混乱中。 —— 如同这个世界，越来越混乱、残破、暴力， 这些都展示出这个世界上的巨大失序。 也许，那个失序是我们每个人所投射出的，因为我们活在失序中。

So we are asking how is one to have complete, total order in oneself, is that possible? Where there is order there is tremendous energy. Where there is disorder there is the dissipation of energy, wastage of energy. So we are going to enquire together - I am not enquiring into myself but together we are enquiring, exploring into this question what is order and can there be order without understanding disorder?

因此我们问: 一个人怎样才能在自身中，拥有彻底的、完全的秩序？ 有那个可能吗？ 哪里有秩序，哪里就有巨大的能量。 哪里有失序，哪里就有能量的耗散，能量的浪费。 因此我们要一起去调查 —— 我没有调查我自己， 而是一起，我们共同去调查、发掘这个问题： 什么是秩序？如果不理解失序，会有秩序吗？

So we are enquiring together to find out this actual state, the fact that we live in disorder - is that a fact, not a verbal description of the disorder? The word is not the thing. The description of the disorder is not actual disorder. The description of a mountain however beautifully painted, the beauty of the valley, the light, the snow, the lines against the sky, the whole sense of dignity, beauty of that mountain can be described most beautifully but the description is not the actual fact.

因此，我们一起来调查实际的情景， 这个事实就是，我们活在失序中 —— 那是一个事实，不是对这个失序的言语描述吗？ 这个词语，不是这个东西。 对失序的这个描述，不是真正的失序。 对一座山的描述，不论描绘得多么美， 美丽的山谷、风光、白雪、天际的轮廓， 那庄严的气势，大山的美可以描绘得非常地美， 但是，这个描述不是这个真切的事实。

For most of us description is sufficient. And so we are caught in the description, not with the actual fact. So when we are asking what is disorder? - is that an idea of what you think should be order and in comparison with what you think should be order there is disorder, which again is total disorder. I hope you are following all this.

对于我们大部分人而言，有了描述就足够了。 因此我们被那些描述所捕获，而不是真切的事实。 因此我们问: 什么是失序？ —— 那是一个想法吗？一个你所认定的秩序， 与这个应该是的秩序作比较，产生出失序，而这一切，又构成了整个失序。 我希望你跟上了所有这一切。

So we are going to find out what is disorder, and having an insight, a quick perception of the whole structure of disorder, then out of that comes order. That order is not according to a pattern, according to a blueprint, according to some sage, or some philosopher, or some religious quack. And most religious priests and hierarchy and all the rest of it are super quacks. Even the new pope, I hope. (Laughter)

因此，我们将要找出什么是失序， 对失序的整个结构，有一个洞察，迅捷的感知， 那么，从中现出秩序。 那个秩序不是契合一种规范、一张蓝图， 不是依从某个圣人或某个哲学家、某个宗教界的庸医。 几乎所有宗教界的牧师们、统治集团和其余的一切，都是庸医， 甚至新选出的教皇，我希望(你清楚…… 罗马最近选出的教皇，听众大笑)

So (laughs) are we aware first that we live in disorder? Not the definition of that word, but the actual fact of contradiction, of division, - me and mine and you and yours, we and they and all that division that goes on within ourselves - the constant conflict. All that indicates disorder. And how do you observe that disorder?

因此，(笑笑)，首先我们能不能意识到自己活在失序中？ 不是那个词所作出的定义，而是真切的矛盾，真实的划痕 —— ‘我’和‘我的’、‘你’和‘你的’、‘我们’和‘他们’， 所有那些伤痕都伴随着我们 —— 这场持续的冲突。 所有那些，都指明了失序。 你要怎么观察那个失序？

Say for example, as we took yesterday, attachment in any form, is a factor of disorder, and also a factor, as we pointed out yesterday, as we discovered yesterday, a part of fear. So attachment to a person, to an idea, to a conclusion, to a past memory, to a piece of furniture and so on and so on, does breed disorder. Do we see that fact?

比如说，我们昨天举的例子： 任何形式的依恋，是一个失序因子， 也是恐惧的一个因素，正如我们昨天所指出的、所发现的，是恐惧的一部分。 因此，依恋一个人、一个观念、一个结论、一段过往的记忆、一件家具等等，滋生出失序。 那个事实，我们看到了吗？

And the freedom from attachment, without becoming isolated, callous, indifferent, does that bring about certain order? Because what we are talking about is, that when we have put everything in order then there is a great deal of energy, tremendous energy. And you need that energy, one needs that energy to go most profoundly into oneself.

那么，解脱依恋， 而不变得孤独、刚硬、冷漠，能带来某种程度上的秩序吗？ 因为我们正在探讨的是: 当我们把所有的东西放在恰当的位置， 就有大量的、无尽的能量。 而你需要那个能量，一个人需要用那个能量，去走进自身深处。

So we are asking, discovering for ourselves, first the disorder in which we live and the nature of that disorder which is part of attachment, fear, and pleasure and so on, and without directing it in a particular direction "hoping that will bring order", but just to be aware of this disorder without any movement away from it. Are we meeting each other? Is the speaker making the thing clear? That is, may I go into it? All right.

因此我们在问，在发现我们自身，首先是我们生活的失序， 以及失序的性质：依恋、恐惧、快感等等， 别把它引导到一个特别的方向 —— “希望那能带来秩序”， 而只是觉察到这个失序，定在那儿，正车会它。 我们相互见面了吗？这个陈情者把这说清楚了吗？ 那是，我可以进入它吗？好的。

Suppose I live in disorder, inwardly, I may have marvellous order outwardly, but inwardly perhaps I am in great disorder. And I ask myself, what am I to do? Is that disorder different from me? Or I am that disorder? You understand this question? Please, this is really important to understand because if the disorder is different from me then I can do something about it, then I can change the pattern, move from one corner to another corner, or bring psychological order by suppressing, by control, by this and by that. I can do something about it.

假设我活在失序中，在我的内心里， 我可能在外面很有秩序，但我的里面可能有巨大的失序。 我问我自己：我做什么？ 那个失序与我不同吗？或者，我是那个失序？ 你理解这个问题吗？恳请您，请理解这，这真地很重要。 因为，如果失序与我不同，我就可以对失序下手 我就能改变它的模样，把它从一个角落移到另一个角落， 或者通过镇压、操控等手段，以带来心理秩序。 我可以对它动手脚。

But if I am, the disorder is not different from me, which is a fact, that the disorder is me, then the problem arises, what happens then? You are following all this? You are not listening to me, you are listening to yourself. Then perhaps you will bring about a change.

但是，如果我是，这个失序与我没有什么不同，这就是事实， 那个失序就是我，那么问题出来了，在发生什么？ 你跟上这一切吗？你不是在听我讲，你在听你自己。 那么，也许你就会引发一个改变。

But if you merely listen to the speaker, you can listen to him for the rest of your life, and I hope you won't, and if you merely listen to him you won't change. But if you yourself see that you live in disorder and that disorder is not different from you, fundamentally, basically you are that disorder, then what takes place?

但是，如果你只是听这个讲话人， 你可以在你的余生中一直听下去，但我希望你不会， 如果你仅仅在听他讲，你不会改变。 然而，如果你亲自看到你活在失序中， 那个失序与你没什么两样， 在本质上，在根源中，你就是那个失序，那么，什么在发生？

Before, you could do something about it because you separated yourself from it and you operated on it, and therefore in that there was constant conflict, betrayal, one day you could do it, the next day you couldn't do it and so on and so on, fluctuating from day to day.

之前，你可以对它下手， 因为你把你自己与它分开了，你可以拿它开刀， 因此在那里，总是有持续的冲突、背叛， 今天你降伏了它，明天你啃不动它，等等，一天又一天，反复地折腾。

Whereas the fact is, you are that disorder. That is a fact, not a conclusion which the speaker has come to and is trying to impose it on you, which he is not. We are not doing propaganda of any kind, trying to convince you of anything. But when the disorder is me, I can't do anything about it, which means I can't operate on it as I used to before. So I remain in this total disorder.

然而，事实是：你是那个失序。 那是一个事实，不是一个结论， 不是说话人所带来的，试图把它塞给你的结论，他不做。 我们不是在搞任何宣传，试图说服你任何一个东西。 但是，当这个失序是我，我就不能对它下手， 也就是说，我不能再像以前那样，拿它开刀了。 因此，我停留在这整个失序中。

Are you doing this as we are talking? Or is it just a verbal accumulation? Which is, I am not different from that disorder. That disorder exists because I have divided myself from what I have called disorder. That is one of the major factors of disorder. I have discovered that.

当我们说的时候，你在做吗？还是在听这堆废话？ 也就是，我与那个失序没什么不同， 那个失序之所以存在，是因为我把自己从那个被我称之为‘失序’的东西中分裂了出来， 那就是失序的一个主要因素。我发现那。

Wherever there is a separation between me and psychologically what I observe, that division is one of the major factors of disorder. That is, when I call myself a Hindu, or myself a Muslim, or a Christian, Catholic or a British or a French, or German, or whatever it is, the division is a factor of disorder - the Jew and the Arab, you have got an obvious example, everyday that is happening.

在任何情况下，只要在我和‘所见’之间，存在着心理上的分裂， 那条裂口就是失序的一个主要因素。 也就是说，当我称呼自己是中国人、佛教徒、道教徒、天主教徒， 或印度人、英国人、法国人、德国人等等，这种分割即是失序因子 —— 犹太人和阿拉伯人，你能找到这个明显的例子，那种失序天天都在发生。

So psychologically when there is division between disorder and myself, I am encouraging and cultivating disorder. Whereas the fact is the disorder is myself and therefore the realisation, the truth of that brings order. Are you following this?

因此，在心理上， 当失序与我自己之间出现了划分， 我就在鼓励和培养失序。 而事实却是：这个失序就是我自己， 因此，意识到这，这个事实带来了秩序。 你跟上这了？

K: You are all very silent. It's up to you. Q: I am waiting for it to happen. K: The gentleman says he is waiting for it to happen. I'm afraid you will have to wait a long time then! (Laughter) It is a fact, it can't happen to you. You yourself see what is going on, therefore the actual fact, the truth of the matter frees the mind from disorder. which is, the cause of this disorder is the separation as me and different from disorder. You understand?

克里希那穆提: 你们太安静了。随便你。 听众: 我在等待它发生。 克里希那穆提: 这位先生说，他正在等待它的发生。 我恐怕你将会等很长时间。(听众的笑声) 它是一个事实，它不能对着你发生。你得亲自去看什么在发生， 因此这个真切的事实，这个事实的真实性，从失序中解放了这颗头脑。 也就是，这个失序的起因是这种割裂，是从这个失序中分割出来的‘我’。 你理解吗？

So, similarly can we bring order in our life? That is, to learn the art of putting everything in its right place. That's order. But you cannot put things in their right place unless the man who puts the thing in the right place is also very orderly. You understand, Sir? Naturally. So we are trying to find out what is order, and what is disorder. Disorder can be dissolved only when the division between me and the other ceases to be, psychologically. And one has to learn the art of putting things in their proper place.

因此，同样，我们能给我们的生命带来秩序吗？ 那就是，去学习把任何一个东西放到适当位置的艺术。 那就是秩序。 但是，你不能把任何东西放到他们恰当的位置， 除非这个人，这个把东西放在恰当位置的人，也非常地有秩序。 你理解吗？先生，自然地。 因此，我们尝试找出什么是秩序，什么是失序。 要消解失序， 唯有这条划伤，这条我与别人之间的伤口消失，在心理上。 而一个人必须学习这种艺术：把任何东西放在他们恰当的位置。

Money, which most of us, if we have lots of it, cling to it, if you have little of it you want more of it, and so on and so on. Money has become tremendously important in the world. And also sex has become tremendously important. I am not going to talk about it, it is important. You know how important it is in your life. And when you give something such great importance that very fact that you are giving a particular thing great importance is disorder. Right?

金钱，对于我们大多数人，如果我们有很多钱，抓紧它； 如果你有一点钱，你想要更多，等等。 在这个世界上，金钱变得超级地重要。 性爱也变得超级重要。 它很重要，我不必再说，你知道它在你的生命中有多重要。 当你给某个东西赋予如此大的重要性 正是那个事实 —— 你给某个东西以特殊的重要性 —— 就是失序。 对吗？

If I give tremendous importance to exercise, so-called yoga, then I am putting that totally out of proportion. So putting everything in its proper place implies giving everything its right value. Right? Can we do that? Do we want to do that? Or is it all much too difficult?

如果我给健身，给所谓的瑜伽，赋予极大的重要性， 那么，我就使整体的匀称失衡了。 因此，把每个东西放到恰当的位置，意味着给予每个东西以正确的价值。 对吗？我们能那么做吗？我们想那么做吗？ 或者，它太难了？

Or you say, 'Please, we have lived for so many years in this mess, let me go on. Don't interfere with this mess'. And so you accept the mess and you are accustomed to it. You say we've become comfortable with this mess, and we don't want to alter it. But a man who is seriously concerned, not only with the world outside of us but also inwardly, to give money, sex, everything its proper place is to learn the beauty of freedom. Without that there is no freedom.

或者你说，“拜托，我们在这个混乱中活了很多年，让我继续吧。 不要干涉这种混乱。” 因此你接受这个混乱，你已经习惯了它。 你说，“我们觉得这里的混乱很舒服，我们不想改变它。” 但是，一个严重关切的人，不仅是对我们的外在，更是内在， 给金钱、性爱，给任何一个事物以恰当的地位， 即是学习自由之美。 没有那，就没有自由。

So then the next problem is we live under great pressure, more and more, pressure - institutional pressures, political pressures, economic pressures, social pressures, and so on and so on. And we said perhaps the greatest pressure in most of us is the desire that wants to act, the pressure of tremendous desire. Right?

因此，接下来的问题是，我们活在巨大的压力下，越来越沉重，压力 —— 组织机构的压力、政治上的、经济上的压力、社会压力等等。 我们说，也许，我们大多数人的最大压力是 想要去干的欲望，无边的欲望所导致的压力。对吗？

K: Are we following all this? May I go on? Q: Yes. K: I hope you are watching all this in yourself. Because you can listen to these words for the next ten years, fifteen years, twenty years but at the end of that you say, 'I am where I was'. Because you don't apply, you don't say, 'I am going to find out'. You merely live at the level of words.

K: 我们跟上这些了吗？我可以继续吗？ Q: 是的。 K: 我希望你正在观察你里面的所有的这些。 因为你可以在今后的十年、十五年、二十年，继续听这些言词。 但听完之后，你说: “我还在原来的地方”。 因为你没用，你没有说，“我要去找出来”， 你仅仅活在言语的层面上。

The next thing is - why is there such a tremendous pressure of desire in most of us? The pressure of sex, the pressure of desire for sex, desire for experience, desire to be popular, famous, desire to - you know, all the rest of it, what the activities of desire are.

接下来 —— 我们大多数人的身上，为何存在着由欲望带出的巨大压力？ 性爱的压力，渴望性交、想去体验的压力， 想受到欢迎、想出名、想去 —— 你知道，这一切的欲望， 什么是欲望的这些活动？

Desire for enlightenment, which is the most stupid desire! Because enlightenment doesn't come through desire. You may go to all the highest peaks in the Himalayas but you will never find illumination there. It is where you are, not in India, or in Japan, or in some other place - or even Rome. (Laughter) Sorry to talk about Rome, because I have just heard this morning about the Pope being elected!(Laughter)

追求开悟的欲望 —— 一种最愚蠢的欲望！ 因为开悟不能通过欲望而来的。 你可以爬遍喜马拉雅山脉中所有那些最高的山峰， 但你绝对不会在那儿找到开悟。 它在你的所在之处， 不在印度、不在日本、不在其它地方 —— 甚至是罗马。(笑声)。 不好意思，我谈到了罗马， 因为我刚刚听到，今天早上教皇被选出来了。(笑声)

So, if one is aware in oneself, of oneself, one sees how desire is so extraordinarily strong - desire for power, to dominate people, desire for... you know all this, I don't have to go into details. You know it all very, very well. And we live under this pressure. And so not only physiologically one becomes ill, the strain of it, but also psychologically it is a great travail, it is a great problem.

因此，如果一个人觉察内在，自身， 一个人看到欲望有多么的强烈 —— 对权力的欲望、支配人们、想要……，你知道所有这些， 我不必详述，你非常清楚它。 我们就活在这个重压之下。 因此，它不仅在生理上使一个人生病、劳命伤财， 同时，在心理上，也带来了巨大艰辛，它是一个巨大的问题。

I desire, say for example, to be the most marvellous person, and it is a constant strain to become somebody, to be somebody, to achieve a result. So one can see desire, without being understood, the whole nature and the structure of desire, is one of the factors of disorder. Right? Please do we see that?

我想要，比如说，我想成为一个非常了不起的人， 它是一种持续的压力：成为某个人物，当大英雄，达成一个结果。 因此，一个人能看见欲望， 没有理解到欲望的整个性质和结构，就是一个失序因子。 对吗？拜托了，我们在看吗？

Please don't accept what I am saying, that is totally unimportant. Is that in yourself a fact which you have discovered for yourself, seeing that desire in all its multiple forms and multiple expressions does breed confusion, does breed disorder. Right? And most people have said control desire, suppress desire, or fulfil desire, go to the extreme of desire - they have done all these tricks.

请你别接受我所讲的话，我的话一点也不重要。 对你来说，那是一个事实吗，一个你亲自发现的， 亲自看到那个欲望，它里面的各种形式和花哨的表演， 滋养着困惑，滋生出失序。对吗？ 我们很多人都说过： 控制欲望，镇压欲望，或者满足欲望，抵达欲望的极限 —— 他们已经玩弄过所有的这些把戏。

Talk to any monk and they will tell you we must suppress any desire, carnal desire, or any form of desire in order to serve god or Jesus or - whoever god is. And so there is always this suppression, control, constant conflict - you desire something, you suppress it, you rationalise it, you control it, you run away from it and so on. So what we are trying to do, what we are saying is let's find out the nature of desire, how it arises, and whether we can give desire its proper place, and not in any way suppress it, control it, destroy it. Right?

与任何一位修道士谈话，他们会告诉你， 我们必须压制任何欲望、肉体上的欲望、或者任何形式的欲望， 以便于去服侍上帝或耶稣 —— 不管它是哪尊神。 因此，总是存在着这种镇压、控制、持续的冲突 —— 你想要某个东西，你压制它， 你替它辩解，你控制它，你逃避它，等等。 因此，我们在尝试去做的，我们在说的是: 让我们找出欲望的性质，它如何发芽， 我们能不能给欲望安排一个合适的座位， 再也不用任何手段去镇压它、控制它、迫害它。好吗？

We are going to go into that. So one must find out the whole nature and the structure of desire. Find out for oneself, not be told what is the nature and the structure of desire. Then if you accept it you will come back next year or the next thirty years and say, 'Well, that is exactly where I am, I began and you have left me where I was after thirty years'. Because one has lived on words, not actually gone into it for yourself.

那么，我们继续深入 因此，一个人必须找出欲望的整个性质和结构。 一个人亲自去找，而不是被告知‘什么是欲望的性质和结构’。 如果你接受它，那么一年后或三十年后，你说: "哈！我还是在老地方，在我原来的地方， 三十年过去了，你把我留在了那。" 因为一个人活在言词之上，你自己没有真正地进入它。

Why has desire become so extraordinarily important? It is encouraged through education, in every form, society, all things around us encourage this process of desire. I want to find out why desire has become important in oneself and what is desire. So I must first understand the nature of sensation. Right? Sensory perception, senses. I must understand the way of the senses. May we go on?

为什么欲望变得极端重要？ 它通过教育而被激励， 在每一种形式中，在社会中，我们周围的一切都在激励这个欲望。 我想找出：对于我自己，为什么欲望变得如此重要，什么是欲望。 因此，我必须先理解感觉的性质。对吗？ 感官的捕获，感受。 我必须理解这些感觉器官的工作机理。我们继续？

The senses being touch, smell, taste and so on. And we never function with all the senses in operation. I wonder if you understand this. No? Taste becomes so extraordinarily important, if you are a gourmet, if you like good food, wine and all the rest of it, taste becomes extraordinarily important. Or if you are sensitive, music. Only music becomes important, hearing a lovely sound and the space between sounds, and the quality of sound, or something.

这些感觉是：身体的触觉、鼻嗅、口尝滋味等等感觉。 而我们从来没有让所有这些感觉都运转。 我怀疑你是否理解这，没有吗？ 如果你是美食家，如果你喜欢吃吃喝喝、饮酒，以及其余的一切， 那么，滋味就变得极端重要。 如果你对音乐很敏感，唯有乐音才是重要的， 听一个可爱的声音、声音与声音之间的留白、音质等等。

So our senses are broken up, fragmented, we never see anything with all our senses completely. Right? Are we understanding each other? Can you look at something, the movement of the sea, the way of the clouds, the wind among the trees, to look at it all with all your senses fully flowering and looking. Can we do that? Then when you do that you will see as a test - you are not accepting what I am saying, test it for yourself - then you will see that there is no centre from which you are observing. There is no division caused by the centre who is saying: 'I am different from that'.

因此，我们的这些感觉是残缺的、碎裂的， 我们看任何一个东西的时候，从来不用我们所有的感觉。对吗？ 我们理解彼此吗？你看某个东西： 大海起伏、云舒云卷、穿行于林间的风， 看它，用你的一切感觉 —— 让感官绽放，观看。 我们能那么做吗？ 那么，当你去做，你会看到，作为一个测试 —— 你不接受我说的，你亲自去试 —— 那么，你会看见，你观察的时候，没有中心 —— 一个观察的发源点。 没有因划分而产生的、那个说“我与那不同”的中心。

When you observe things totally, a woman or a man or a child, or your girl friend, husband, wife, with all the senses awakened, then there is no one particular sense demanding an action. You are following all this? Are you doing it as we are talking about it? So senses have their right place, but they become destructive, divisive and conflicting when one particular sense is developed and the others are dormant or semi-dormant. Whereas when you observe something entirely with all your senses then there is no division in yourself.

当你完整地观察： 一个女人或男人，或者一个孩子，或者你的女朋友、丈夫、妻子， 唤醒所有的感官，那么，就没有某个特定的感觉要求一个行为。 你跟上这些了吗？当我们在说的时候，你在做吗？ 因此，这些感官有了它们恰当的位置。 但是，当某一个感官被开发，而其余的感官却处于休眠或昏迷状态， 那样一来，它们就变得具有破坏性、分裂性，相互冲撞。 然而，当你在观察某个东西的时候，用你所有的感官， 那么，你的里面没有界限。

So desire is part of these sensations, is the beginning of sensation. Right? That is a fact, isn't it? See a beautiful woman or a man or a child, or a car, or a mountain, or a lovely proportioned house, or a garden, and perception, sensation and the desire arises. Right? And the desire, that sensation, perception, sensation creates the image and then desire begins to operate. That is the whole movement of desire. This is a simple, obvious, daily fact which you can observe if you are paying attention.

因此，欲望是这些感觉的某一部分，是某部分感觉的萌发。 对吗？那是一个事实，它不是？ 看一位美女，或者一位帅哥，一个小娃娃， 或者一辆汽车，一座高山，一栋漂亮的房子，一个花园 —— 捕获，某部分的感觉，欲望萌生。对吗？ 那个欲望，那个感觉，感知，感觉创造这个画面；接着，欲望开始运转。 那就是欲望的整个运动过程。 这是一个简单的、明显的、日常发生的事实；只要你留意，你就能观察到。

So where does the conflict, the trouble, the confusion begin in the movement of desire? Right? You are following? See, for example, I see a beautiful tree, or a lovely garden. I have got a piece of land and I'd like to have such a beautiful garden myself. That is, there is perception, sensation, the image - making which is thought - right? - and then thought pursues that which it has observed, which it has pleased. So wherever there is the movement of thought with regard to sensation, then desire brings conflict. Are you understanding this? Is this clear, or am I to...? No, no, I see it is not. I have to repeat it differently.

因此，在欲望的活动中，这个冲突、这个麻烦、这个困惑，就发芽了？ 对吗？你跟上了吗？ 看，比如，我看见一棵漂亮的树，或者一座可爱的花园。 我正好有一块地，我自己也想有那么一个美丽的花园。 那就是: 捕获，感觉，这个画面 —— 思想的杰作 —— 对吗？ —— 然后，思想追逐它所见到的、那个给它带来快感的画面。 因此，只要有与感觉相关的思想活动，欲望就引发出冲突。 你理解这吗？这一点清楚了吗，或者我…… ？ 不，没有，看来还没有。我必须再换一种方式。

There is perception of a beautiful house, well-proportioned, all the rest of it. Then there is sensation. That is normal, that is essential, otherwise I am blind, my senses are not acute, aware. But the trouble begins the moment thought says: creates the image of owning a house like that and working for it, identifying oneself with that house and so on.

感知到一所漂亮的房子，它形态优美，等等。 那就产生了感觉。 那是正常的，是基本的，否则我就是瞎子，或者我的感官不敏锐、不清醒。 可是，一旦思想说：‘修一栋像它那样的房子，并为此而工作， 把自己和那栋房子相认同……’等等， 那样一来，麻烦就到了。

So where thought begins to interfere with the perception then there is division, then desire begins. You've followed this? Is this clear? No, not what I am saying, for yourself. Are you also working as hard as we are all working? It is hot in here. Are you working as hard? I hope so. It doesn't matter. It is up to you.

因此，只要思想开始干涉这种感知过程， 那么，就有了划分，接着，欲望发芽了。 你跟上这一点了吗？这清楚了吗？ 不，不是指我所说出的话，是你自己。 你也在像我们一样在艰苦地工作吗？这里热起来了。 你正在艰苦地工作吗？我希望如此。没关系，它取决于你。

So the question is, it is natural to have the perception, sensation, that is natural, but can that moment stop and not thought come in, and create an image and pursue that image which becomes desire? You understand what I'm saying? You understand my question? That is, perception, sensation is normal, healthy, but when thought comes in, creates the image, then the image is pursued as desire, then the trouble begins.

因此，这个问题是，感官捕获并产生感觉，那是自然的， 但是，那一刻能停下， 而不让思想进入，制造画面，追逐那个画面，从而变成欲望吗？ 你理解我所说的吗？你理解我的问题吗？ 那就是，捕获，感觉是正常的、健康的， 但是，当思想走过来，创造这个画面， 接着，这个画面被当作欲望而被追求，那么麻烦就开始了。

Haven't you noticed it in yourself? You can see a beautiful car and there is sensation and the image of you driving in it, driving it, the power you have and all that. But whereas seeing the car, sensation, and stop there. Can you do it? You try it and see what is involved in it. In that there is no control.

在你的里面，难道你没注意到吗？ 你能看见一辆漂亮的汽车，有了感觉， 接着出现一个画面：你开着它，驱动它，拥有它强劲的动力，等等。 但是，如果你看这辆车，感觉，并停在那儿。 你能这么做吗？ 你去尝试，看看其中有什么。 在那里，不存在控制。

You see the whole implication of desire, how it arises, how thought then creates the image and pursues it. Whereas perception, sensation and looking at the car - or the mountain, the girl, or the boy, or whatever it is. Then there is no conflict, there is no suppression of desire, then you have the enormous energy that has been used up by the movement of thought as desire. Is this clear?

你看欲望的整个含义， 它怎么发芽，思想怎么创造这个画面并追求它。 那么，捕获，感觉，看这辆车 —— 或者这座高山，这个女朋友，这个男朋友，或其它任何东西。 那就不存在冲突，不存在对欲望的压抑， 那么，你拥有巨大的能量 那曾经被消耗在思想中、被称之为‘欲望’的能量。 这清楚了吗？

So the next point is - we are investigating into ourselves - why do we live so greatly on remembrances? You understand my question? Why human beings live in the past, which is to remember? Right?

因此下一点是 —— 我们在调查我们的内里， —— 为什么我们在很大程度上，都活在记忆中？你理解我的问题吗？ 为何人类活在过去，活在回忆里？对吗？

You all look so puzzled. You have had a pleasant day and you remember it, and it is stored up as a memory, and you delight in that memory, you live in that memory; or you live in a sexual memory, or the memory of some achievement that has been possible for you. So remembrance has become extraordinarily important for all of us - as experience, as knowledge.

看来你们都相当迷惑。 你拥有愉快的一天，而你记得它，它被作为一个记忆而保留， 在那段记忆中，你感到兴奋，你活在那段记忆中； 或者你活在一段性爱的记忆中， 或者一个关于你可能斩获某种成就的记忆中。 因此，对于我们所有人来说，记忆已经变得极其重要 —— 被当作体验，被当作知识。

I am asking, we are asking, why? Do you understand? Not that we must not remember, of course you must remember how to drive a car, where your home is and so on and so on, the technological knowledge one has acquired, but psychologically why remembrance has such importance in our life? Right? You are asking this question yourself.

我问，我们在问，为什么？你理解吗？ 不是说我们不必去记， 当然，你必须记住怎么开车，你的家在哪里，等等， 这种一个人所获得的技术性知识； 但是，在心理上，为什么在我们的生命中，记忆占有如此的重要性？ 对吗？拿走这个问题，放在你的心上。

So what is remembrance? What is the factor of remembrance? There was an incident that was pleasurable or painful, an event that brought a smile or a tear, and that is registered in the brain. Right? Naturally. This is simple. And that registration becomes the memory, that registration is the remembrance of that delightful event, or that painful event. Now the question is why should we register psychologically anything? You understand my question?

因此，什么是记忆？记忆的基质是什么？ 一桩事发生了，不论它苦乐与否、不论它带来了笑容或眼泪， 那桩事被记录到大脑中。对吗？自然地。这是简单的。 而那条记录变成了这种回忆， 那条记录就是这种回忆，它被标记为痛苦的，或者高兴的事件。 现在，这个问题是: 为什么我们要记录心理上的任何东西？ 你理解我的问题吗？

I have put a question why should the brain register an event which was painful or pleasurable? It may register things that are dangerous - right? - like a precipice, like a dangerous animal, or dangerous snake, or a dangerous person, a crook and so on, it may register. Those are all obvious daily facts. But why should the brain register the hurt, the flattery, the insult, the feeling that you are this and all the rest of it, why should there be registration psychologically at all?

我遇到一个问题: 为什么这颗大脑要记录一件痛苦或高兴的事件？ 它也许应该记录危险的东西 —— 对吗？ —— 比如一个悬崖，比如一个危险的动物， 或者一条危险的蛇或者一个危险的人、一个骗子等等，它可以记录。 那些都是明显的日常事实。 但为什么这个大脑要记录这种伤害、这种奉承、这种侮辱、 这种‘你是这样或那样的人’，以及其余类似的一切感觉呢？ 为什么要记录心理上的一切？

You have got the question, haven't you? Are we meeting each other? Is it time for me to stop? Audience: No! K: Dites moi, je vous prie, quant il est midi et demi. Now we are asking: it is one of the factors of the brain to register, of necessity. I must register technological knowledge if I am working with machines and so on and so on. And also if I write or if I am a surgeon, a doctor and so on, it must be registered.

你拿到了这个问题，你没有吗？我们相互会面了吗？ 到了我该停下的时间了吗？ 听众: 没有！ 克里: (法语) 请告诉我，现在是12:30分。 现在我们问：大脑记录的一个原因是必要性。 我必须记录技术知识，如果我要与机械设备等等东西一起工作， 同样，如果我写作，或者我是外科医生、教授等等，相应的技术知识必须被记录。

But we are asking why should one psychologically register anything at all? At least see the question first. Is it necessary? Does it bring a clarity? Does it bring greater energy, freedom and so on? Or psychological registration is one of the factors that destroys a real joy? I'll go into it presently.

可是，我们在问：为什么一个人要去记录心理层面上的任何东西？ 至少，先看这个问题。它有必要吗？它给人带来一种清明吗？ 它带来了更大的能量、自由之类的东西吗？ 或者，心理上的记录是一种破坏因素，破坏了真正的欢乐？ 现在，我要进入它。

We said the brain in its activity must register certain things, it is necessary. But we are asking psychologically, inwardly why should the brain register? Is it a habit that we have fallen into, that when you insult me I register it immediately? When you flatter me, I register it immediately. Why? When you flatter me you are my friend, when you insult me you are not my friend and so on.

我们说过：这颗大脑在运转中，必须记录一定的东西，它是必要的。 但是我们问: 在心理层面上，在人的内里，为什么这颗大脑要记录？ 它是一个我们深陷其中的习惯吗？ 当你羞辱我，我立刻记录下来； 当你奉承我，我立刻记下来。为什么？ 当你奉承我，你是我的朋友；当你羞辱我，你不是我的朋友等等。

Now we are asking can this registration stop psychologically? See what it means. Then that means regeneration of the brain. So the brain becomes extraordinarily alive, young, fresh because it is not registering that which is not necessary. I wonder if you follow all this.

现在我们问: 这种心理上的记录能停下吗？看它是什么意思。 那么，那意味着这颗大脑的更新。 因此这颗大脑变得异常活泼、朝气、清新， 因为它不再记录那些没有必要的东西了。 我怀疑你是否跟上了这一切。

Now, is that possible? Intellectually one can see the beauty of it, verbally. You say, 'By Jove, it must be most extraordinary intellectually to have no psychological registration'. It doesn't mean one is a vegetable, or empty, or all that, but there is a freedom, an extraordinary sense of elation, an extraordinary sense of youthfulness, the brain doesn't get old, worn out.

现在，那可能吗？ 从理智上看，一个人能看到它的美妙，在言语上的，你说: “哇! 没有了心理上的记录，那必定是最非凡的理智。" 它并不是意味着一个人成了植物人，或者空壳，或者其余所有的那些； 而是有一种自在，一种非常的欢欣感，一种清新的非凡感， 这颗脑袋不再衰老，腐坏。

So one must find out if it is possible. Because as we grow older the brain gets more and more mechanical, more and more fixed in a groove, in a track, and becomes hard, brittle, not pliable, quick. Now is this possible, not to register psychologically at all? You have got the question. Is the question clear? Yes?

所以，一个人必须找出它的可能性。 因为，随着我们年龄的增加，大脑越来越机械化， 越来越刻板，陷入陈窠，变得僵硬、刻板，不柔韧、迅捷。 现在，这有可能吗，不去记录心理上的任何东西？ 你拿到这个问题。这个问题清楚了吗？是吗？

Now, let's proceed to find out. Find out, it doesn't mean that I am going to tell you and then you discover it and say, 'Yes, it is so'. Then you will come back thirty years later where I am - 'I am still where I started.'

现在，让我们去找出。找出， 不是我告诉你，接着你发现它，并说，“是的，要找的就是它。” 那么，三十年后，你会回到我所在的地方 —— “我依然在我开始的地方。”

We said the brain needs security, safety to function efficiently. It must register certain facts, how to drive a car, write letters and so on and so on, technology and so on. Then the brain has realised that putting order, giving order to register only things that are necessary, which is to bring order. Right?

我们说过，这个大脑需要安全，有了安全才能高效运转。 它必须记录一定的事实： 怎样开车，怎么打字，等等技术性的或类似的知识。 那么，这个大脑已经意识到了那，把那些放好， 只记录那些必需的东西，这样一来，就有了秩序。对吗？

Then we can proceed to find out why the brain or the psyche, psychologically registers. Does it bring safety, avoids danger? Does it prevent further hurts, further destruction, further obstructions? Or we are cultivated unconsciously the habit of registering - We have registered there, so why not here?

那么，我们就能继续探寻：为什么这个大脑或这颗心灵，记录心理上的东西。 它能带来安全，避免危险吗？ 它在阻止进一步的伤害，进一步的破坏，进一步的妨碍吗？ 或者，我们不自觉地被培养出这种记录的习惯 —— 我们记录了那些，为什么不记录这些呢？

From there we have moved to here, psychologically, from outwardly it is necessary but psychologically, from there we have moved to here. And is that necessary at all?

从那里，我们移动到这里，移动到心理层面上； 外在层面上，它是必要的， 但在心理层面，我们从那里移动到了这儿，有必要那样做吗？

A very simple example from childhood we are hurt psychologically, by parents, by other children, by the school, college, university, if you are lucky and so on and so on - we are hurt, we are wounded psychologically. And that wound is registered. And having been hurt there is resistance, isolation, fear and all the rest of it.

一个非常简单的例子：在小的时候，我们心理上受到了伤害， 它来自于父母，其他小孩，学校、学院、 大学，如果你幸运的话，等等， —— 我们受伤，我们有心理创伤。那个伤害被记录了下来。 由于已经受伤，就有抗拒、隔绝、恐惧和其余的一切反应。

Now is it necessary when you insult me to register at all? You understand my question? Is it possible to prevent registration? You are understanding my question? I hope! Right? It is possible only when you are insulting me, or flattering me, for all my senses to be awakened and listening. You understand this? Then there is no reception at all.

现在，当你羞辱我，有必要记录下它吗？ 你理解我的问题？有可能阻止它被记下吗？ 你们理解我的问题吗？我希望！对吗？ 只有当你羞辱我，或讨好我的时候， 我所有的感官被唤醒，在听，才有可能。 你理解这一点吗？那么，就根本没有接受。

Is this all Greek? (Laughter) I see the importance to have fresh, young, bright, clear brain. That is utterly important. Is it possible to maintain that clarity, that precision, decision with that beauty of all that is implied till I die? It is not possible when there is registration of things which are not absolutely necessary. Right?

这些都是希腊语吗？(笑声) 我看到拥有清新的、富有朝气的、明澈的、明晰的头脑的重要性，那是非常地重要。 能不能保持那种清明、那种精准、那种明断 具备那一切的美，直到我死？ 只要有丝毫的、没有用的记录，就没这种可能性。 对吗？

So one has to find out why any form of psychological registration which becomes memory, remembrance, is it possible not to do it? One discovers, if you go into it deeply, it is possible. It is possible only when you are really attentive at the moment of insult, at the moment of flattery. Right? Have you tried this?

因此，一个人必须找出：为什么有关于心理上的记录的任何形式？ 那些变成了记忆、回忆，有可能不那么做吗？ 一个人发现，如果你深入它，它是有可能的。它有可能 只有当你受辱或被吹捧的时候，你真实地在注意。 对吗？你试过这吗？

The other day a man said to me, 'You are a damn fool, you are stuck in a rut' - rather impolite but there it is. (Laughter) So I went to my room and I said, 'Is that a fact? I want to find out.' One may be stuck in a rut and one may be a damn fool. One investigates it and by watching very carefully you don't register that you are... you don't register, you listen to the word, you listen to the fact whether you are or not, whether you are stuck in a rut.

有一天，一个人对我说：“你这该死的蠢货，你已经陷入一个窠臼。” —— 很不礼貌，但它就是。(笑声) 因此我回到我的房间，我说： “那是一个事实吗？我想找出来。” 一个人可能陷入一个窠臼，一个人可能是该死的蠢货。 一个人调查它，通过观察，非常仔细地看，你没有记录那个‘你是……’ 你不记录，你听那个字眼， 你听这个事实：‘你是，还是不是？你是否陷入了一个窠臼。’

Are you stuck in a rut? You understand? Are you? No, find out, don't answer me please. Somebody calls you what somebody called me, I hope more politely, and you want to find out if it is so. You neither deny nor accept but just watch it, find out. If you are stuck in a rut, it is fairly obvious, you'll soon find out you are in a rut.

你陷入窠臼了吗？你理解吗？你陷进去了？不，找出来，请不要回答我。 某个人对你说了那句对我说过的话，我希望更礼貌一些， 而你想去找出它是不是那样。 你既不拒绝它，也不接受它，而是观察它，去找。 如果你陷入一种窠臼，它是相当明显的，你会很快发现你陷入了一个窠臼。

So registration does not take place when you are alert, awake, totally aware with all your senses open, there is nothing to be registered psychologically. Will you do it?

因此，记录没有发生， 当你处于警觉，完全地意识，你全部的感官苏醒， 在心理上，就没什么东西被记录。你会做它吗？

No, you won't, because pleasure has become immensely important for us. Right? If you observe yourself very carefully you will see what great part, perhaps the greatest part, pleasure plays in our life. The pleasure to find god, or illumination, the pleasure to be free, the pleasure to have money, possessions, lovely wife or husband, you know and all that business, pleasure of sex, pleasure of power, the politicians with their pleasure of immense power.

不，你不会。因为对我们来说，快感已经变得无比的重要。对吗？ 如果你仔细地观察你自己， 你会看到，在生活中，愉快占据了重要的，也许是最重要的位置。 寻找上帝的快感、开悟的快感、获得自由的快感、 拥有金钱、财产、可爱的妻子或丈夫的快感， 你知道所有那些东西，性爱的快感、 权力的快感，那些政客所拥有的巨大权力的快感。

And so the registration of pleasure in most of our lives is tremendous. Right? And the pursuit of pleasure has become a dominant factor that is the remembrance of a past pleasure and the pursuit of that past pleasure as remembrance and desire behind it and searching out, asking, demanding, wanting. Our whole religious organisations are based on that. It is a vast entertainment, it gives great pleasure, which is great sensation, that you are in the presence of holy things and so on.

因此在我们大多数人的生活中，有关快感的记录量是庞大的。对吗？ 而追求快感已经成为了一个主导因素 回忆那曾经的快感，追逐那过往的快感，也就是追逐那段记忆 想追随在它的后面，抓取、要求、期盼。 我们整个宗教体系就建立在那上面。 它是一场盛大的娱乐，它给予巨大的快感，也就是巨大的感觉 —— 你与神圣会面等等之类的那些东西。

So we said, the registration of pleasure, of an event that gave you great delight, is registered and the pursuit of it in our life. Now the question is what is pleasure?

因此我们说，对快感的记录，也就是给你带来巨大的兴奋一个个事件， 被记录下来，并在我们的生命中追逐它。 现在，这个问题是：什么是快感？

When you are enjoying something, at the moment you don't say, 'How pleasurable it is, how lovely' - you are in it. Only a second later thought comes along and says, 'What a lovely time that was, how beautiful that was, what a great sensation it gave me, what a lovely experience', so there is registration has taken place, then thought is in operation. You are following all this?

当你在享受某个东西的时候，在那一刻你不会说： “它多么令人快乐，多么可爱。” —— 你沉浸在里面。 片刻之后，思想来了，说： “那是多么可爱的时光，多么美好， 它带给我多么深刻的感受，一段多么可爱的体验”， 因此，记录发生了，当思想运转之时。 你跟上这一切了吗？

We are talking about all this because it is part of knowing oneself, not from books, not from words, not from description, but actually knowing oneself. Knowing doesn't mean accumulating memory about oneself and from that accumulation observe. If you observe through accumulation you are only accumulating what you have already known. But whereas if you are observing afresh each time then it is like a vast river with a volume of water flowing, moving.

我们探讨的所有这些，因为它是认识自我的一部分， 不是来源于书本，不是发源于文字，不是来源于描述，而是真正地知道这个自我。 知道不是指积累关于自己的记忆，并根据那个积累去观察。 如果你通过累积去观察， 那么你只是在积累你已经知道的东西。 然而，如果你每一次的观察都是新的， 那么，它就像一条大河，挟裹着河水涌动、奔流。

So what is pleasure? Is it time, is it thought as fear? We said the root of fear is time. The root of fear is thought. Thought which is remembering - remembrance - remembers certain events that caused fear, registered, the remembrance of it and the next time this whole remembrance is projected. You are watching? So is pleasure time and the movement of thought? Or they are both the same, thought and time are essentially the same?

因此，什么是快感？它是时间吗？它是如同恐惧的思想吗？ 我们说过，恐惧的根源是时间，恐惧的根源是思想。 思想就是回想 —— 回忆 —— 勾起某段过往，引发出恐惧，那被记录下的，对它的记忆 在下一次的时候，整个回忆的场面被投射出来。 你在观察吗？ 因此，快感是时间和思想的推移吗？ 或者它们是同一个东西，在基底上，思想和时间是相同的？

So thought is the movement of pleasure, which doesn't mean you can't look at a beautiful tree and enjoy it, a beautiful person, a painting or a lovely valley with all the purple shadows in it. Look at it but the moment it becomes registered and remembrance, it is no longer delight, it becomes a pleasure, which is the remembrance of things that have happened before. Now if you see the whole nature of this, completely, then pleasure has its place, delight and therefore psychologically, inwardly there is no registration of that event. The mind then, the brain then becomes extraordinarily alive, young, fresh without any neurotic reactions.

因此，思想就是这种快感的活动， 并不是意味着你不能看一棵美丽的树并欣赏它， 一个美人、一幅图画、一个可爱的山谷倒影出它紫色的阴影。 看它，但在它变成了被记录的片段的那一刻， 它就不再令人兴奋了，它变成了一种快感， 也就是，一种曾经发生过的某段回忆。 现在，如果你看到这整个性质，完整地， 那么快感有了它的位置，点亮了， 因此，在心理上、在里面，那种事件没有被记录。 这颗头脑，那么，这颗大脑变得异常地活泼， 充满朝气和清新，不再有任何神经质反应。

Finished. I've stopped just in time. Please, if I may request you, don't clap, it's such a... you're clapping for yourself, not for me - or clap when I am not here. (Laughter)

完了。我正好准时停下。(掌声) 拜托，如果我可以请求你们，不要鼓掌，它是那样一…… 你正在给你自己鼓掌，不是给我 —— 或者当我不在这儿的时候鼓掌。(笑声)