the speaker would like to know, why you are all here. I really mean it. With what intention, with what purpose, with what kind of imaginary or superstitious, concepts that one has. And perhpas, if I may be so bold as to suggest it, you might have come with those ideas, with those formulas. And I am afraid you will be disappointed, because... I hope you can hear, all right? I hope all you can hear. One has talked all over the world for a long time, seventy years, that's a long time, and one has naturally built up all kinds of fanciful, superstitious imaginary reputations, and those reputations, those images that one has created are really meaningless.

讲话人想知道，为什么你们都在这里。 我真的想知道。 带着什么意图，有什么目的，对讲话人抱有什么样的想象性的或迷信色彩的观念。 也许，如果我能大胆地提出这个建议， 你可能会带着这些想法，带着这些公式。 我担心你会失望，因为讲话人在世界各地谈论了很长一段时间，七十年啦，那是很长一段时间， 他自然而然地建立了各种幻想性的、迷信色彩的声誉， 而那些声誉，那些他所创造的形象，真的是毫无意义。

because what we are talking about is tatally different from a lecture. A lecture is meant to inform, to instruct, to guide and so on. This is not a lecture. Please we must be very clear on that point. This is not a lecture! There is no intention on the part of the speaker to guide you, to help you, forgive me if I use that word, or to inform you about something you would like to be talked about, theoretical, superstitious, imaginary, a fixation as it were.

因为我们所谈论的与讲座完全地不同。 讲座的目的是告知、指示、开导等等。 这不是讲座。请我们务必非常地清楚这一点。 这不是讲座！ 讲话人无意引导你，帮助你(如果我使用这个词，请原谅我)， 或者为你提供某些你想听的东西：理论上的、迷信的、幻想性的、某种牢靠的观念。

But we are going to deliberate together. That word has a very deep meaning, 'deliberate', which means weigh together, take counsel together, nourish each other, not physically, I hope, but psychologically, intellectually, and penetrate as deep as possible, into one's own consciousness, into its own function, its own way of thinking, living. This is not a theoretical meeting, talking about various thing that should be, or that has not been, but together, you and the speaker, are taking counsels together, weighing things together. Please, this is not just a lot of words. The speaker really means what he says, whether you like it or not.

但我们将共同审议。 “审议”这个词有一种非常深刻的含义，它意味着一起权衡，一起商议， 相互滋养，不是指身体上，我希望你明白，而是指心理上、智力上的滋养， 并尽可能深入地渗透到自身的意识中， 深入到自身的运作、自己的思维和生活方式之中。 这不是一个学术会议，谈论各种‘应该是’或‘不存在’的东西， 而是一起，你和讲话人，正在一起商议，一起权衡事情。 拜托，这可不是一堆废话。 讲话人在真实地表述他的真心实意，不管你喜不喜欢它。

He says we are going to take counsel together, weigh things together, not I weigh and then tell you about it, but rather that together, you and the speaker, take counsel together, weigh together. This is not propaganda, because we are together investigating, asking, questioning, doubting. The idea and the fact are two different things. The fact is one thing. The microphone is not an idea, it is a fact. So, the fact is what we are going to discuss, not the idea of the fact. I hope all this is clear. All right? Shall I keep quiet as you are keeping quiet? This is a serious meeting, not just exchange of words. Something wrong, Sir?

这个讲话人说：我们要一起商议，一起权衡事情， 不是我来权衡，然后把它告诉你， 而是一起，你和讲话人，一起商议，一起权衡。 这不是宣传，因为我们在一起调查、询问、质疑、怀疑。 想法和事实是两码事。事实是独立的一件事。 麦克风不是一个想法，而是一个事实。 所以，我们要讨论的是事实，而不是关于事实的某个想法。 我希望这一切都表述清楚了。大家都清楚了吗？ 我应该像你一样保持沉默吗？ 这是一次严肃的面谈，而不仅仅是言语上的交流。 有什么不对劲吗，先生？

So from the very beginning, we must be very clear that this is not a lecture, we are not talking about theories, what has happened to human beings through the long two and a half million years of evolution, but what we are, what we have become, and what is our future - not of mankind, what is future of all of us? Right? Let's be clear on the point. We are going to deliberate that is take counsel together. Taking counsel together, we nourish each other, both intellectually, non-verbally and psychologically. It's not something intellectual. What is this? Oh, for god's... Sorry. I thought someone was putting his hand over my shoulder.

因此，从一开始，我们就必须非常清楚，这不是一场讲座， 我们不是在谈理论，不是在说‘人类在漫长的250万年的进化中发生了什么’， 而是在说‘我们是什么，我们已经成了什么样子，我们的未来是什么’ —— 不是‘人类’，而是‘我们’，我们所有人的未来是什么？对吗？让我们明确这一点。 我们将共同审议，也就是共同商讨。 我们一起商讨，我们在智力上、非语言上和心理上相互滋养，而不是在玩智力游戏。

It is not romantic, not superstitious, imaginary and so on. So we are together - you can't just sit there and say, yes, yes or no, no. You are partaking, you are sharing, you are weighing, taking counsel together. Right? Is that understood between us? And we are not doing any kind of propaganda, or inviting you to join a particular sect. And here I must add I am not your guru, you are not my followers. We are not setting up a new cult, a new society, a new ashrama, a new kind of concentration camp.

它不是浪漫的，不是迷信的，幻想性的等等。 所以我们在一起 —— 你不能只是坐在那里说，‘是，是’或‘不是，不是。’ 你在参与，你在分享，你在权衡，在一起商讨。 对吗？我们之间是否理解了这一点？ 我们没有做任何宣传，也没有邀请你加入某个特定的教派。 在这里，我必须补充一点，我不是你的导师，你不是我的追随者。 我们不是在建立一个新的邪教，一个新的社会，一个新的静修林，一种新的集中营。

If this is very clear between us, that you and the speaker together are going to take part in all the talks - if there are future talks that depends on the physical condition of the body. So we have existed on this earth, according to the scientists and archaeologists and so on, for over two million years, and here we are. What are we? You ask yourself. I am not suggesting what you are. We are opening up the deep cave, the deep underlying causes, the reality that lies behind the cause.

如果这一点在我们之间非常清楚， 那么您和讲话人将一起参与所有的讲话 —— 如果将来还有讲话，这取决于讲话人的身体状况。 因此，我们已经在这个地球上存在了两百多万年，根据科学家和考古学家等的说法。 我们就在这儿。我们是什么？你问自己这个问题。我不是在暗示‘你是什么’。 我们正在打开深邃的洞穴、深层的根源以及隐藏在它背后的真情实况。

So we are going to go into that during the talks. I don't know how many there will be, but I can't assure you. They will tell you, whether there will be talk tomorrow, or not. Or there will only be a talk, that is today and Wednesday a Question and Answer meeting and next Saturday the last meeting. So together we are going to look at this world, that is ourselve. Right? Are you willing? Or are you frightened, hiding behind all kinds of absurd theories, - all the psychological innuendoes, all the thing man has put together as they call it religion, the existing society. That is the degeneration that is gradually going on: pollution in all the cities, despoiling the air and also corruption. This is what we are caught in. So what has gone wrong with us? Or is this a natural course? You understand my question? Do you really want to listen to all this rubbish?

因此，在这几次讲话中，我们会进入那些 我不知道会有几次讲话，我不能向你们保证。…… 因此，我们将一起观看这个世界，也就是我们自己。好吗？ 你会去看吗？还是你害怕了，躲在各种荒谬的理论背后？ —— 所有的心理影射，所有的被人类称之为‘宗教’的东西，这就是社会的现状。 这是一种逐渐地正在发生的退化： 在一切的城市中，污染、空气破坏和社会腐败。 这就是我们所处的困境。因此我们出了什么问题？ 或者，这是一个自然的过程？你理解我的问题吗？ 你真地想听所有这些垃圾吗？

You must read about all this in newspaper, if they ar honest, magazines, and of course all the gurus in the world have destroyed that thing which they have wanted. So let us begin, but please bear in mind, this is not a lecture. You haven't come to listen to me. You have come to listen to yourself. however complicated that self is, however superficial, however deep. We are going to go into all that. Perhaps not during one talk, but we will see at the end of the talk, whether the speaker survives. That's what is behind it: asking you to sit quietly for two or three minutes after the speaker has gone and the speaker will find out if he can continue tomorrow, or will he collapse at the end of it?

你肯定在报纸上看到过这一切，如果他们是诚实的，杂志上， 当然，世界上所有的导师都破坏了那个他们想要的东西。 因此，让我们开始，但请记住，这不是讲座。 你来到这里，不是听我讲话。而是听你的‘自我’讲话。 无论这个‘自我’多么复杂、多么肤浅、多么深刻。 我们将讨论所有这些问题。 (也许不是在一次讲话中， 但我们会在讲话结束时，看讲话人是否还活着。 那就是它背后的原因： 在讲话人离开后，要求你安静地坐两三分钟， 讲话人会发现他明天是否可以继续，还是会在最后倒下？)

It's up to you, because otherwise you as my listener, may say, 'Yes, yes, it sounds very good' or 'not at all good. It is not logical, or illogical' and so on. Right? What are we, as human beings, who have lived on this earth for such a long period of time, why are we as we are? You have understood my question? Right? Have you understood my question? Q: No. K: Yes, Sir. Q: No. K:No? Q: He says he hasn't understood.

这取决于你，因为，如果你不听你内在的声音，你就变成了我的听众，你就可能说， ‘是的，是的，他说得很好’，或者说，‘这根本在胡扯。没有逻辑，或者不合逻辑’，等等。对吧？ 作为人类，我们在这个地球上生活了这么长时间，为什么我们是这个样子？你理解我的问题吗？ 对吗？你理解我的问题吗？ 问：不。克：是的，先生。问：不。 克：不？ 问：他说他不理解。

K: It is very simple, sir. I am using ordinary English, not professional English. I will say once more. We are sharing all this together. You are not merely listening to the speaker, we are taking counsel together, we are deliberating. That word is really a very good word, to deliberate, it means take counsel together, to weigh things together, not your prejudice, not your opinions, not your conclusions, but the whole process of thinking, what it has made man into and so on. Right? If you don't understand it, I'm sorry I am not going back to it. We are talking ordinary English.

克：它很简单，先生。 我使用的是日常的英语，而不是专业英语。我再说一遍。 我们正在共同分享这一切。 你不只是在听讲话人说话，我们正在一起听取建议，我们正在审议。 这个词真的是一个非常好的词：‘审议’， 它意味着一起来探讨，一起来权衡， 不是你的偏见，不是你的意见，不是你的结论， 而是整个思想过程，它给人造成了什么影响，等等。对吗？ 如果你不理解它，很抱歉，我不会再重复它。 我们说的是日常的英语。

So what has happened to us, to each one of us? That is, we have lived on this earth as human beings, for a very, very long time, which is called evolution. And during that evolution of experience, knowledge, thinking, all the things that man has put together, including his superstitious, his gods, his various empires, and when you come down to the actual fact, what has happened to each one of us? Don't you want to know? Or are we frightened to know? Which is it? Gosh, what's the matter? Not a response. Q: We want to inquire. K: You want to enjoy yourself. Q: Inqiure. K: I don't understand what you are talking about.

那么，我们每个人身上发生了什么？ 也就是说，我们作为人类，在这个地球上已经生活了很长的一段时间，这被称之为进化。 在经验、知识、思想的演变过程中， 人类把所有的东西放在一起，包括他的迷信、他的神灵、他的各种庞大的组织， 当你落到实处，我们每个人身上发生了什么变化？你不想知道吗？ 还是我们害怕知道？它是什么？天啊！怎么了？没有一点反应。 问：我们想调查。克：你想享受自己。 问：调查。克：我不理解你在说什么。

And you are the rest of the world - what you suffer, what you go through, daily boredom, the pettiness of one's life: the struggle, the pain, the anxiety, the sorrow, the negligenc, the carelessness, indifference. And this is shared by all humanity. Right? Everybody goes through this: your guru - if you have one, I hope you haven't got any - your guru, if he is at all awake, if he is at all sane and rational, he goes through all this. The kings and the ministers go through all this. Pain, anxiety, uncertainty, sorrow, death, hoping for something in the future. This is what all human beings, wherever you go, however civilised one is, or not, every human being goes through this. Right?

你就是世界的其他部分 —— 你所遭受的苦难、你所经历的日常生活中的无聊、生命中的琐事： 挣扎、痛苦、焦虑、悲伤、消极、粗心、冷漠。 这是全人类所共享的。 对吗？每个人都会经历这些：你的上师 —— 如果你有一个， 我希望你没有任何上师 —— 你的上师，如果他完全清醒，如果他是正常和理智的， 他经历了这一切。国王们和部长们经历了这一切。 痛苦、焦虑、不确定、悲伤、死亡、对未来的期盼。 这是所有人，无论你走到哪里，无论这个人有多么文明，或者多么野蛮，每一个人都经历了这一切。对吗？

Are you doubting that fact? Do you doubt that, that every human being throughout the world goes through all this, And this makes up our consciousness. Right? Are we understanding each other? Are we walking together? Are we investigating together? Or am I guiding you, helping yu? I am not. Please be assured of one fact: I don't want to help you, I am not your guide or your helper. Then you will ask, why am I sitting here?

你怀疑那个事实吗？你怀疑那吗？ 也就是，全世界的每个人都经历了这一切，而这一切构成了我们的意识。 对吗？我们彼此理解吗？我们在一起行走吗？我们是否在一起调查？ 还是我在引导你、帮助你？我没有。 请确认这个事实：我不想帮助你，我不是你的向导或你的帮手。 然后你会问，‘我为什么坐在这里？’

You are sitting here probably out of curiosity, out of what you have heard, or read a few lines in a book, or you have beent told, 'Go and listen to the chap' - you will find out. So please be clear. the speaker is not guiding you, he is not helping you. He won't help you, because you have been helped. All through the ages, you have been helped - saviours, gurus, mahatmas, you know the whole list of them. They are all too willing to help you, with their ashramas, with their foundations, including this. And you have been helped. If you have any trouble, you trot off to a guru or to a temple, asking for help, which is called prayer. And you have been helped, you have been guided, politically, religiously, psychiatrically, and at the end of it all, we are what we are.

你坐在这里可能是出于好奇，出于你以前听到的， 或者读了一本书中的几行字，或者你被告知，“去听那个家伙” —— 你会找到。 所以请保持清醒。讲话人没有引导你，他没有帮助你。 他不会帮助你，因为你已经得到了帮助。 古往今來，你们一直被帮助 —— 救主、上师、圣雄，你知道他们的所有名单。 他们都太愿意帮助你们了，用他们的静修房，用他们的基金会，包括这个。 你得到了帮助。 如果你有任何麻烦，你会小跑到上师或寺庙，寻求帮助，这被称之为祈祷。 你得到了帮助，你在政治上、宗教上、精神病学上，得到了引导， 最终，我们就是这个样子。

So the speaker says - please take this seriously, he is not guiding you, he is not helping you. On the contrary. Together we are walking the same path, together we are sharing, nourishing. I am using the word 'nourishing' both intellectually, psychologically - we can't feed each other, there are too many people. So, bearing that in mind all the time, that you and speaker together are looking at this whole problem not just my sorrow or your sorrow, your anxiety, uncertainty. It is shared by every human being on earth. And your consciousness is the consciousness is the consciousness of mankind. Right? You may not agree, but investigate, even intellectually, logically - not emotionally, then you are lost.

所以讲话人说 —— 请认真对待这一点，他没有指导你，他没有帮助你。恰恰相反。 我们一起走在同一条路上，我们一起分享、滋养。 我使用‘滋养’这个词，是指在智力上和心理上两个层面 —— 我们不能互相喂养，有太多的人。 所以，一直牢记这一点，你和讲话人一起在看这个完整的问题， 而不仅仅是我的悲伤或你的悲伤、你的焦虑和犹豫。 地球上的每个人都在分享它。 而你的意识，就是全人类的意识。对吗？ 你可能不同意，但是去调查，甚至只是在智力上、逻辑上 —— 不是情绪上，那样你就迷失了。

logically, sanely, looking at it, not with prejudice, opinions, but look at it. You suffer and so does the man in Russsia. You are uncertain, so is the man in China. Right? So your consciousness is shared by all humanity, so you are humanity. Right? You are humanity, not Mr Smith, Mr Rao, or something or other. If that is shown to you, not accepted, but showing it logically, investigating together, sharing together, then what shall we do? You understand my question?

合乎逻辑地、理智地看待它，不带偏见、观点，而是看它。 你遭受了苦难，俄罗斯人也在受苦。你不确定，中国人也是。对吗？ 所以你的意识是全人类共有的，所以你就是人类。 对吗？你是人类，不是史密斯先生、拉奥先生，或者别的什么名字。 如果这些已经展示给了你，不是被接受，而是以合乎逻辑地方式展示出来了， 一起去调查，一起去分享，那么我们该怎么办？你理解我的问题吗？

Seeing all this, how humanity has been divided into nations, into sects, into religions - my guru is better than your guru and so on. This division, this separation exists all over the world. That's one of the major causes of war - nationalities. Right? But you will go on with your nationalism, with your Hinduism, with your tradition, in spite of what the speaker is saying. Right? Right, sir? You all agree, I am glad that we will carry on as before. Right? You're a rummy crowd. So, if one actually, when one actullay realises this fact, that you are entire humanity, not physically, but psychologically, then you invariably must ask the question: what am I to do, Right?

看到这一切，人类如何被划分为国家、教派、宗教 —— 我的上师比你的上师更好等等。这种划分，这种分离存在于世界各地。 这是战争的主要原因之一 —— 国籍。对吗？ 但是，你们将继续你们的民族主义、你们的印度教、你们的传统，不论讲话人怎么说。 对吗？对吧，先生？你们都同意，我很高兴我们将像以前一样继续下去。对吗？ 你真是一条糊涂虫！ 所以，如果一个人真实地，当一个人真实地意识到这个事实， 你是整个人类，不是在身体上，而是在心理上， 那么你不可避免地，必须问这个问题：我该怎么做？对吗？

Don't wait for me to tell you. We are sharing together. We are taking counsel together. These are not lecture, I must repeat this because you are used to lectures. Somebody pouring forth for your information. So what shall we, if we see the rational, sane fact, that we are entire humanity. Right? Of course you won't see this because to you, it is very important to have individuality: "I'm separate from you." Of course you are separate from me physically, you are a woman, I am a man, or I am taller that you are shorter, and all the rest of it. Apart from biological division, consciousness, our consciousness which is the 'I' with all its memories, experiences, with its longing and all the rest of it, that consciousness is shared by every human being. Right?

不要等到我来告诉你。我们在一起分享。我们正在一起商讨。 这些不是讲座，我必须重复一遍，因为你已经习惯了讲座。 那些人向洪水一样，为你提供了大量的信息。 那么，如果我们看到这个合理的、理智的事实：我们是整个人类，那我们该做什么呢？对吗？ 当然，你不愿意去看这一点，因为对你来说，“我和你是分开的” —— 这种个性很重要。 当然，你在身体上，是与我分开的： 你是女人，我是男人，或者我高你矮，以及所有其余的。 除了身体上的区别，这个意识， 我们的意识，即‘我’所拥有的所有的记忆、体验，以及它所想要的东西和其余一切， 这个意识是每个人所共享的。对吗？

You won't agree to all this. It doesn't matter, I'll go on. If you'd like to listen, do, but it doesn't matter if you listen or don't listen. Like the birds, they go on singing. Like a storm full of wind, rain and thunder and great beauty of light. So if one actually - not theoretically or intellectually - realises that is, to realise something, like a cobra is possessions. A rattle snake is possessions, so don't go near it. It is not mere conclusion, it's your death if you go near it.

你不会同意这一切。没关系，我会继续。 如果你想听，那就做，但不管你听不听，都没关系。 像鸟儿一样，它们继续歌唱。像一场风暴，挟裹着风雨、雷鸣和炫丽的闪电。 因此，如果一个人真实地 —— 不是理论上或智力上 —— 意识到这一点，意识到某个东西，如同一条眼镜蛇就是占有物。 响尾蛇是占有物，因此不要靠近它。 它不只是结论，如果你靠近它，它就是你的死亡。

So physically we are conditioned to a snake. Right. So you are conditioned, shaped, moulded in the idea that you are a separete human being. You have a separate soul, the Christian idea, and if you realise that you are humanity not whether you question it - you are. If you look at it carefully, go into it deliberately, not avoid it, you will see you suffer, the other man suffers, he quarrels with his wife and children and all the rest of that daily life. So what shall one do? Right? What will you do? What's your action?

因此，在身体上，我们受限于蛇。对吧。 因此，你被制约、你被整形、你被塑造成了一个分裂的人。 你有一个分裂的灵魂，有一套基督教的观念， 如果你意识到你是人类，无论你怀疑与否 —— 你就是。 如果你仔细观察它，深入地审视它，而不是逃避它， 你会看到你在受苦，另一个人在受苦，他和妻儿吵架等等日常生活中的所有一切。 那么，这个人该怎么办？对吗？你会怎么做？你在做什么？

Not conclusion. You understand, sir? Because a conclusion is not a fact. You may derive from a fact a conclusion, but the conclusion is not the fact. Bene? I am in the midst of a sea of people who don't seem to react to all this. Your whole religion is based on individuality, all your prayers, your worship, your... It doesn't matter, I'll go on. So what shall one do? What am I to do, living in this society, the society that is so corrupt, what shall I do? Whatever I do, will it affect the society? You understand? Will it affect my neighbour, will it affect the man, not in the moon, but the man in Russia?

别下结论。你理解吗，先生？因为结论不是事实。 你可以从事实中得出一个结论，但结论不是事实。你还好吧？ 我身处一片人海之中，他们似乎对这一切没有反应。 你的整个宗教都是基于个性，你所有的祈祷、你的崇拜、你的…… 没关系，我会继续。那么，这个人该怎么办？ 我该怎么办？生活在这个社会，这个如此腐败的社会里，我该怎么办？ 无论我做什么，都会影响社会吗？你理解？ 它会影响我的邻居，会影响这个人吗？不是在月球上的，而是在俄罗斯的人。

So I have to ask, who created this society? Right? Are you at all thinking together, or not? Oh my god, what am I to do if you don't react, if you don't smell something? So we are asking, who created this society, which is so immoral, so corrupt, all over the world. Which is destroying man, which is degenerating - right? - which is polluting the whole world, what shall I do, or not do, to affect this society? Do you understand my question? So I ask myself, am I different from the society? Right? Who created this society which we live in? Right?

所以，我不得不问，谁创造了这个社会？对吗？ 你在一同思考吗？你没有吗？ 天哪！如果你没反应，如果你闻不到什么气味，那我该怎么做？ 所以我们在问，是谁创造了这个社会，这个遍布全球的社会都是如此不道德，如此腐败。 它正在毁灭人，那正在堕落的人 —— 对吗？ —— 整个世界正在遭受污染，我应该做什么，或者不该做什么，我怎样来影响这个社会？ 你理解我的问题吗？ 所以我问自己，我与社会不同吗？对吗？ 谁创造了我们生活的这个社会？对吗？

Are you asking that question yourself or are you just listening to me? Are you asking that question? What's your answer, if you are really using your brain, not just nodding your head? What's your answer? Not some gods. Q: Something that's K: I am talking for a while, if you don't mind, a little later. You don't mind? When there is a question and answer meeting if there is one, you can put all kinds of questions to me. So who created this society? My father, your father, my grandmother and your grandmother. Right? They all helped to build up this corrupt society in which we live.

你是在问自己这个问题，还只是在听我讲？ 你在问这个问题吗？ 你的答案是什么？如果你真的在使用你的大脑，而不仅仅是点头， 你的答案是什么？不是某些神灵。 那么是谁创造了这个社会？ 我的父亲、你的父亲、我的祖母和你的祖母。对吗？ 为建立我们所生活的这个腐败的社会，他们都出了力。

So we are the creators of this society, the builders of this society, through our ambition, through our fears, the desire for security in my relationship, in my job, power, position. Right? We all want that. Right? Am I saying the truth or something imaginary? So we are the builders of this society. Society is not different from me, from us, because we are ambitious, we are greedy, we are frightened, we want position, power, privileges. Right? We want all this, and God too, occasionally. So God is our creation too.

因此，我们是这个社会的创造者，是这个社会的建设者， 这个社会是通过我们的野心、我们的恐惧，通过我在人际关系、工作、权力、地位上对安全的渴望而建立的。对吗？ 我们都想要那些。对不对？ 我说的是事实，还是在骗你？ 因此，我们是这个社会的建设者。 社会与我、与我们没有什么不同， 因为我们有野心，我们贪婪、惊恐，我们想要地位、权力、特权。对吗？ 我们想要这一切，还想要上帝，偶尔也会。所以上帝也是我们创造的产物。

You may not agree. Don't agree, let's investigate it, share it. The western world is captured by that particular religion, and they are making havoc out of it. No, sorry, I mustn't say that. They are making God and money go together. The least trouble you have, you want somebody to help you, emotionally, or sexually, or psychiatrically. There are always temples, mosques and Churches, and a convenient priest there. I am not being cynical, I am just showing you the facts. So what shall I do knowing that I am the rest of humanity, not Mr K?

您可能不同意。别同意，让我们调查它，分享它。 西方世界被这个特定的宗教所俘虏，他们正在从中制造严重的混乱。 不，对不起，我不能这么说。他们让上帝和金钱走到一起。 你遇到的麻烦最少，你希望有人帮助你，在情感上、性爱上、精神上。 那儿总是有寺庙、清真寺和教堂，还有一位方便的牧师。 我不是愤世嫉俗，我只是在向你展示事实。 那么，如果我知道我就是其他人，而不是克里希那穆提先生，我该怎么办？

You understand my question? What am I, as a human being, who is the rest of mankind - I don't ask whither mankind, where mankind is going because I am mankind. I wonder if you see the importance of this. I wonder if you see the depth of it, the beauty of it, the immensity of it, the responsibility of it. I am afraid you don't, because if you really saw, felt utterly responsible for your brother, utterly responsible for your neighbour, not that you won't interfere with him, or hit him on the head, or tell him what to do, you are the neighbour, you are your brother's keeper. I don't know if you see all this. Then what shall I do?

你理解我的问题吗？ 我是什么？作为一个人类，作为其余的人类 —— 我不问人类，不问人类将走向何方，因为我就是人类。 我想知道，你是否看到了它的重要性。 我想知道，你是否看到了它的深度、它的美丽、它的浩瀚、它的责任。 恐怕你没有， 因为如果你真地看到，感受到你对兄弟负有的巨大责任，对你的邻居负有的巨大责任， 不是你不去干涉他，去敲他的头，去告诉他该怎么做， 你就是这个邻居，你就是你兄弟的监护人。 我不知道你是否看到了这一切。那么我该怎么做？

I am not asking your help, I am not asking through prayers, for that Almighty to guide me - if there is an Almighty. I am asking this question, putting this question to myself, as you must, and I hope you do. What shall I do, knowing that I am the rest of mankind? I am mankind. I may be a woman, or a man, short, tall, brown, or whatever colour, colour is not important. What is important is, what is inside the skull. So what shall I do? Whatever I do, will it affect the society, which is me?

我不是在请求你的帮助， 我不是在通过请求来祈祷，祈祷全能的主引领我 —— 如果有一个全能的主。 我问这个问题，拿着这个问题问我自己，你必须这样做，我希望你正在做。 知道我就是其余的人类，我该怎么办？我就是人类。 我可能是一个女人、男人、矮个子、高个子，是棕色人或者其他什么颜色，颜色是不重要的。 重要的是，颅骨里面装着什么。那么我该怎么做？ 我做的任何事情，都会影响社会吗？社会就是我。

You understand? Society is me. I have separated myself from society, but the fact is society has been put together by man. And man in his desire to have security, permanent security, through property, through convictions, through formulas and so on, so on, so on - he has done everything. Right? He has built Churches, he has built mosques, he has built temples, not only in this country, but they are taking them to America unfortunately. So what shall I do? I am not separate from society, I am not separate from the rest of humanity, so whatever I do has immense meaning and responsibility. Right? Immense! So what is my responsibility? Right? What's your answer? Don't sit there and look at me.

你理解吗？社会是我。 我把自己从社会中分离出来，但事实上，社会是由人组成的。 而人渴望拥有安全、永久的安全， 通过财产，通过信念，通过规则等等，等等 —— 他已经做了这一切。对吗？ 他建造了教堂，他建造了清真寺，他建造了寺庙，不仅在这个国家， 而且不幸的是，他们正在把它们带到美国。那我该怎么做？ 我与社会分不开，我与其他人分不开， 所以无论我做什么，都有巨大的意义和责任。对吗？巨大的！ 那么我的责任是什么呢？对吗？你的回答是什么？ 不要坐在那里盯着我。

My first response to that is, what do we mean by action? Right? I want to do something, not only as a human being, I want to affect the society, I want to change the society, I want to stop this degeneration that is going on. You know what is going on in the world. I won't go into all that. So what action shall I take? So before I put that question, or in putting that question, I must enquire what is action. You tell me, what is action? To act.

我对此的第一反应是：我们所说的‘行动’是什么意思？对吗？ 我想做点什么事，不仅仅是作为一个人类，我想影响这个社会， 我想改变这个社会，我想阻止这种正在发生的堕落。 你知道世界上正在发生什么。我不会详述所有的那些。 那么我应该采取什么行动？ 因此，在我问这个问题之前，或者在提出这个问题之前，我必须询问‘什么是行动？’。 你告诉我，什么是行动？去行动。

To act according to a formula is no action at all, right? because you repeat, and that repetition is part of our security. And that repetition gives a certain sense of well being: we are stable, we are firm. So is action based on certain memories, certain knowledge, certain past experiences and so on? What is action, what is to act? Not, I will act, or I have acted - to act now. You understand my question? No?

根据一套公式而行动，根本不是行动，对吧？ 因为你在重复，而这种重复是我们安全的一部分。 这种重复给人一种优越的安全感：我们是稳定的，我们是坚定的。 那么，行动是根据某些记忆、某些知识、某些过去的体验之类的东西吗？ 什么是行动？什么是行动？ 不是‘我将要行动’，或者‘我已经采取了行动’ —— 现在的动作。 你理解我的问题吗？没有？

You are all very well educated, aren't you? BAs, MAs, engineers, PhDs, blah blah and MAD and so on. You are all well educated, and probably you have, never put this question to yourself, what shall I do, realising I am the entire humanity and the responsibility of it, the greatness of it. So we are asking, what is action? To act, not in the future, that is not action. Not, I have acted, which is the past. So what is action which has no past or the future? Go into it, this is a tremendously important question. If you base your action on the past, it is no action, it is a repetition, modified, a little changed, but it is still repetition. Right?

你们都受过很好的教育，不是吗？ 文科学士、硕士、工程师、博士、诸如此类、医学博士等等。 你们都受过良好的教育，也许你们已经，也许你从来都没有拿这个问题来问你自己， ‘我该怎么做？’ 意识到我是整个人类，它的责任，它的广大。 所以我们问，什么是行动？ 采取行动，而不是在未来采取行动，那不是行动；也不是‘我做了’，那就已经成为过去了。 那么，什么是没有‘过去’或‘未来’的行动？ 深入它，这是一个非常重要的问题。 如果你把你的行动建立在过去的基础上，它就不是行动， 它是一种重复、被调整过、有一点改变，但它依然是重复。对吗？

God, where are you educated? So is there an action - please I am asking this question most seriously - is there an action which is not dependent on the past or confirming to a future pattern? You understand? Or - this is a little more difficult - or there is no action at all. We will have to go into it much more slowly. Do you want to listen to all this blah?

天啊！你们在哪里接受的教育？ 因此，有没有一个行动 —— 拜托，我正在非常认真地问这个问题 —— 有没有一个行动，不依赖于过去，也不依赖某个需要被未来所证实的规则？ 你理解吗？或者 —— 这一点更加困难 —— 或者根本就没有行动。 我们将不得不更缓慢地进入这个领域。 你想听所有这些废话吗？

Or do you want to sit still and meditate? I don't know what you call meditation. That is one of those words, that is bandied about all over the place. You go to a little village in California and they talk about meditation. I say, 'What do you mean by that word?' They don't know but we are going to meditate. I won't go into that now.

或者，你想安静地坐下来冥想？我不知道你所说的冥想。 那是那些到处流行的词汇之一。 你去加利福尼亚州的一个小村庄，他们在谈论冥想。 我说，‘你说的那个词是什么意思？’ 他们不知道，但我们要去冥想。我现在不谈这个问题。

So action which is not dependent on time. You understand this? No, careful, sir, don't agree with what is being said, for heaven's sake. Is there an action without the motive, self-interest, without gaining reward? You understand my question? All this implies time. Right? I will be rewarded for my goood work, I will be rewarded if I pray for a refrigerator - why not, that is as good as God, more real than God, more actual than God.

所以行动不依赖于时间。你理解这个吗？ 不，小心点，先生，不要同意所讲的话，看在老天的份上。 有没有一个没有动机的行动，没有自我利益，不需要获取回报？ 你理解我的问题吗？所有这些都暗示着时间。对吗？ 我的善行会得到奖赏，如果我为冰箱祈祷，我会得到回报 —— 为什么不呢？那些东西和上帝一样好，比上帝更真切，比上帝更实在。

So is there an action - this requires real, using your brain, not your emotions - which is not based on self-interest, a conclusion towards which you are working? So you have to investigate what is time. You understand me? Because we function in time. Am I boring you? Would you kindly tell me if I am boring you. Q: No, sir. K: I know, I know. The invariable answer. You are not. But am I actually boring you? So you have to look into the nature of time. Right?

那么，有没有一个行动 —— 这需要真正地使用你的大脑，而不是你的情绪 —— 不是出于自我利益，不是出于某个你正在朝着这个方向努力的结论？ 所以你必须调查‘什么是时间？’。你理解我吗？因为我们在时间中运转。 我让你无聊吗？如果我让你感到无聊，你能告诉我吗？ 问：不是，先生。 克：我知道，我知道。 不变的答案，‘不是’。但我真的让你感到无聊吗？ 因此，你必须研究时间的性质。对吗？

What is time? Not according to the sunrise, sunset, that has its own pattern, a new moon in the tender sky, and the full moon, which I saw the other day rising out of the sea. It is a marvellous sight. Sunrise and the evening star, all that is part of time. And there is time also from a small child, a baby to grow up into a man, that requires a lot of time, twenty years, thirty years, ninety years. And that also means time. We live with time. You have to get up in the morning, at a certain time, cook and all the rest of it. So we live, function, act within the limits of time. To us time is extraordinary important. There was a meeting here at five thirty, and you have to make all kinds of arrangements to get here at five thirty. So did the speaker.

什么是时间？ 不是根据日出、日落，那些有它自己的规则，温柔的天空下一轮新月， 我前几天看到从海里升起了一轮满月。它是一个奇妙的景象。 日出和夜晚的星星，所有这些都是时间的一部分。 这也需要时间：从一个小娃娃、一个婴儿成长为一个人，需要大量的时间， 二十年，三十年，九十年。这也意味着时间。 我们生活在时间中。你必须在早上起床，在某个时间做饭和做所有其余的事情。 因此，我们在时间的限制中，生活、工作、行动。对我们来说，时间非常重要。 五点半在这里聚会， 你必须做出各种安排才能在五点半到达这里。讲话人也是如此。

So we live in time. Not the time of the scientists, which is too complicated - I won't go into that. We live by time. But also there is physical time and there is psychological time. Right? That is, I am, I will be. I am jealous, uncertain, ambitious, wanting to fulfil, climb the ladder and all the rest of it. To climb the ladder you need time, step by step to get to the top. Right? So there is psychological time and physical time. Is this clear? Don't agree, please. You are not agreeing with me, this is a fact.

所以我们活在时间中。不是科学家的时间，那太复杂了 —— 我不会深入讨论。 我们生活在时间中。但是有生理上的时间，也有心理上的时间。对吗？ 那就是：‘我是’，‘我将会’，‘我嫉妒、不确定、雄心勃勃’，‘我想要满足、爬上梯子’以及所有其它东西。 要爬上梯子，你需要时间，一步一步地到达顶端。对吗？ 因此有心理时间和生理时间。这点清楚吗？别同意，拜托。 你没有同意我，这只是一个事实。

You are not used to this kind of thinking, that is your trouble. You don't want to share anything with anybody. So are we bound to time? You understand? I am greedy, but give me a little time, I will be non-greedy. Give me a little time to be non-violent. Right? So we use time as a means of reward and punishment. Right? I wonder if you seee all this.

你不习惯这种思考，那是你的麻烦。 你不想与任何人分享任何东西。 因此，我们被时间拷着？你理解吗？ 我贪婪，但是请给我一点时间，我将不会贪婪。 给我一点时间，我会变得不暴力。对吗？ 因此，我们利用时间作为一种奖励和惩罚的手段。 对吗？我在想你是否看到了这一切。

Do you read newspapers? There they inform you about everything that is happening, according to their editor, and you absorb all that is being said in the newspaper. But here you are not absorbing, you are actually thinking. And if you don't want to think, get up and go home, much better. But if you want to think, find out, you have not only to use your brain which is extraordinarily active: If you want money, you work like hell to get it. If you want a position, power, good lord, look at them, all working their hands off.

你读报纸吗？ 根据他们的编辑，它们向你提供了正在发生的一切事情， 而你吸收了报纸上所说的一切。 但在这里，你不是在吸收，你是在真正地思考。 如果你不想思考，起身回家，那样会更好。 但是，如果你想思考，去找出，你不仅要使用你的大脑，使它处于非常活跃的状态： 如同你想要钱，你就会为了它而拼命工作。 如同你想要一个职位、权力、当领导，看看他们，他们都在撸起袖子加油干！

And if you want to find out, if there is an action which is timeless - you understand my question? which is not based on time as past, present and the future. So what is time, apart from physical time? Time includes the past. Right? All the knowledge which the scientists have acquired, step by step, experience by experience, trying without failing - you follow? - adding more and more and more to what already they know. Right? Do you understand something I'm saying? Good. So time is the past, time is the present, time is the future. This is the cycle in which we are caught.

如果你想找出答案，是否存在一种不受时间限制的行动 —— 你理解我的问题吗？ 它不是基于‘过去、现在和未来’的时间。 那么，除了生理时间之外，时间是什么？时间包括过去。对吗？ 科学家获得的所有知识，一步一步，一个经验接一个经验， 尝试而不失败 —— 你跟上了吗？—— 添加越来越多的他们已经知道的东西。对吗？ 你理解我在说什么吗？好。 所以时间就是这个过去，时间就是这个现在，时间就是这个未来。 这个就是圈，是困住我们的乾坤圈。

I remember my experience, what a lovely time I had - that's memory. Then that day which was so horrible, I remember that. So my brain is full of memories of the past, the present and the future. So the future is what I am now. Right? Right, sir? Don't agree, sir, please, for god's sake don't agree. If you don't see, it doesn't matter, but since you have taken all the trouble to come here, it's a waste of money and your energy if you don't listen, if you don't capture the real inward story of all this. You are wasting your time, your energy, your money.

我记得我的体验，我度过了多么美好的时光 —— 那就是记忆。 接着，‘那天发生的事情真是太可怕了，我把它记录了下来。’ 所以我的大脑充满了对这个过去、这个现在和这个未来的记忆。 所以这个未来，就是我现在的样子。对吗？对吗，先生？ 别同意，先生，拜托，看在上帝的份上！别同意。 如果你没看到，那也没关系，但是既然你已经花费了所有的精力，到了这儿， 如果你不听，如果你不捕捉到这真实的内在的一切故事，那就是在浪费金钱和你的精力。 你正在浪费你的时间、你的精力、你的金钱。

So time is the past, the present and the future. The scientists would say something else, I have discussed this matter with them, they want all kinds of complicated, manoeuvres to bring about their own conclusions. Now, the past is time, all the memories, all the knowledge, all the experience, all the pain, the anxiety, the loneliness, the despair, the uncertainty - all that is the past. And that is acting in the present. Right?

所以时间就是这个过去，这个现在和这个未来。 科学家会说别的东西，我和他们讨论过这个问题， 他们想用各种复杂的、策略性的方法来得出他们抱有的定论。 现在，这个过去就是时间、所有的这个记忆、所有的这个知识、所有的这个体验、 所有的这种痛苦、焦虑、孤独、绝望、疑惑 —— 那一切都是这个过去。 那正在活动。对吗？

modified, changed slightly, but all the past is acting now. What you thought ten years ago, slightly modified, is still going on. You believe in God, so that belief gives you a certain security, and tomorrow, you will still believe in God, whether it is illusory or fanciful or nonsensical. So the past modifying itself in the present, becomes the future. Right, clear? Very simple. So the future is now. No? Because what you are, you will be tomorrow, unless you radically bring about a mutation.

调整，稍作改变，但所有的这个过去，正在活动。 你十年前的想法，稍微调整了一下，现在还在继续。 你相信上帝，所以这种信仰给你一定的安全， 而明天，你仍然会相信上帝，无论它有多么虚假、虚幻或荒谬。 因此，这个过去正在调整它自己，变成了这个未来。对吗，清楚吗？ 非常简单。所以，这个未来就是现在。不是吗？ 因为你现在是什么，你明天就会是什么； 除非你从根本上带来一种突变。

You understand what I am saying? You are all asleep. Would you like to go to bed? Probably you have never thought about all this, you have never gone into it, you have never taken the trouble to investigate, you have never given time, a little time during the day, to say, my god, what is all this about, what is all this living, what is the meaning of this nonsensical way of living? So if you could give ten minutes now, give your attention, giving your heart to find out. Not mere intellectual, verbal action, but give your whole being, your heart to it. You will find out very quickly for yourself. Then no God, no priest, no country, no power, position and all that disappear completely, they are meaningless. So the future is now. Yous understand me?

你理解我在说什么吗？你们都睡着了。你想上床睡觉吗？ 也许你从来没有想过这一切，你从来没有进入过它， 你从来没有费尽心思去调查， 你从来没有给过时间，哪怕是一天里的一丁点儿时间，说，我的上帝，这一切是什么， 这一切的生活是什么，这种荒谬的生活方式意义何在！ 所以，如果你现在能拿出十分钟的时间，给予你的关注，用你的心去发现。 不仅仅是智力上的、言语上的行动，而是拿出你的整个存在、你的心。 您会快速地发现你自己。 那里没有上帝，没有牧师，没有国家，没有权力、地位以及一切东西，都彻底地消失，它们是毫无意义的。 所以这个未来就是现在。你理解我吗？

Because I am this now. I am greedy, envious, I have several enemies - not I, suppose I have - enemies, it is my country, it is my God, my guru is better that your guru and all the rest of that nonsense. So if you can put all that aside, opinions, judgements, evaluations and face the fact that you are after two million years what you are now: frightened, lonely, depressed, anxious, uncertain. That's what you are now, today. Tomorrow you will be exactly the same - slight modification, but you will be exactly the same. So the future is now.

因为我就是现在。我贪婪、嫉妒，有几个敌人 —— 我没有，假设我有 —— 敌人， 它是我的国家，它是我的上帝，我的导师比你的导师更好，以及其余所有的废话。 因此，如果你能把所有这些观点、判断、评估都扔在一边， 并面对这个事实：历经了两百万年后，你现在的样子： 恐惧、孤独、压抑、焦虑、疑惑。那就是你的模样，你今天的样子。 明天你将完全地相同 —— 稍作修改，但你会完全地相同。 所以这个未来就是现在。

I don't know if you see this. So the question then arises: what is change? Do you understand? If I am greedy now, or anger, I have been envious, jealous, I have got a great many hurts, if there is no radical mutation now, I will be exactly the same tomorrow. It is logical, sane, therefore I ask myself: what is change? You understand? Is there such thing as change? You understand all this, at least some of you? We use the word 'tranform', which means change forms - I am this but I am going to change into that, which is still the same pattern. Right?

我不知道你是否看到了这点。 那么问题来了：什么是改变？你理解吗？ 如果我现在贪婪，或者愤怒、羡慕、嫉妒、受到了很多的伤害， 如果现在没有根本性的突变，我明天也会是这个样子。 它是合乎逻辑的、理智的，因此我问自己：什么是改变？ 你理解吗？有‘改变’这样的东西吗？你们理解这一切吗，至少，你们中的某些人？ 我们用‘变形’这个词，其意思是指‘改变形式’ —— 我是这个样子，但我要变成那个样子，那还是同一种格调。对吗？

What does that word 'love' mean to you? Have you ever asked that question? Love of God, love of pictures, love of literature, I love my wife, which may be rather doubtful, I love literature and so on. What does that word mean to each one of us? Would you like to wait to answer, take time? Or shall I proceed with it? You understand? Would you like to answer that question, what is love, or would you want me , the speaker, to go into it. It's much easier for the speaker to go into it! It is an important question, very: what is love? How will you find out?

‘爱’这个词，对你来说意味着什么？ 你有没有问过这个问题？ 爱上帝、爱图画、爱文学、我爱我的妻子，这些可能相当地值得怀疑，我爱文学等等。 这个词对于我们每个人来说，意味着什么？ 您想稍微停留一下，花点时间来回答它吗？还是我应该继续？你理解？ 你想回答这个问题吗，什么是爱？还是希望我，这个讲话人，进入它。 讲话人更容易进入它！ 它是一个重要的问题，非常重要：什么是爱？您将如何找出？

How will you find out for yourself the truth of the matter, not all the romantic values, you know all that stuff, I don't have to, So what is it that is love, which is not emotion, which is not sexual response, which is not an imaginative - you know, all that stuff. So what is love to you? Q: Silence.

你将怎样亲自去找出这个事情的真面目？ 不是所有的浪漫的价值，你知道所有那些东西，不用我说， 所以什么是爱，它不是情感，不是性回应，不是一种想象 —— 你清楚所有那些东西。 那么对你来说，爱是什么？ 问：安静。

K: Silence. Is that love? Silence. When you hit your wife, or tease her, or do something to her, are you silent? Anything goes in this country. Right? All the saints, all the gurus, all the latest miracle workers, and all that. You absorb everything. Right? Somebody writes a book, and you say, 'Yes, I agree with that.' Somebody comes along and contradicts that and you say, 'Yes, I also agree with that.' And you have banished from this country Buddha. Or you say, 'Yes, he is one of us.' So your brain is capable of absorbing rubbish, agreeing with something that appears to be true.

克：安静？那是爱吗？安静。 当你碰撞你的妻子，戏弄她，或对她做某些事情，你安静吗？ 这个国家什么都有。对吧？所有的圣人，所有的大师，所有最新的奇迹创造者，所有的这些。 你吸收了这一切。对吧? 有人写了一本书，你说，‘是的，我同意。’ 如果有人过来，反驳里面的观点，你说，‘是的，我也同意。’ 你把佛陀赶出了这个国家。或者你说，‘是的，他是我们中的一员。’ 因此你的大脑有吸收垃圾的能力，同意那些看似正确的东西。

Don't you do all this, actually, if you face the fact? Don't you? Yous brain is capable of absorbing anything that goes in the name of religion - pure rubbish - and something most extraordinarily true. And this melange, this mix up, that's your life. Right?

如果你真正的面对这，难道你不是真正地在做这些事情吗？你没有吗？ 你的大脑有能力吸收以宗教名义出现的任何东西 —— 纯粹的垃圾 —— 以及某些极其真实的东西。 这种混合物，这种搅拌物，就是你的生命。对吗？

So, I have to stop. So what is love? I have to stop now. We will have to go into this either Wednesday, or tomorrow, or next Saturday. Right? Is that all right? You don't mind? Q: Tomorrow. K: You'd love that? Why? Don't be funny, sir. Why do you want it tomorrow? It is convenient for you, is it? Q: Tomorrow is convenient.

因此，我必须停下来。因此，什么是爱？我现在必须停下来。 我们将不得不在星期三、明天或下周六讨论这个问题。对吗？ 这样可以吗？你不介意吗？ 问：明天。 克：你爱那个吗？为什么？别笑，先生。 你为什么明天想要它？这对您来说很方便，是吗？ 问：明天很方便。

K: Tomorrow is Sunday, is that right? And so it is convenient for you. Suppose it is not convenient for me? (Laughter) You people, you are not serious. Anything goes. You see now? So sir, we had better stop and Mr Narayan will annouce whether I talk tomorrow or Wednesday. It that all right sirs? Q: Yes, let him announce. We will wait for an announcement form him. K: Goodbye, sirs.

克：明天是星期天，对吗？因此，这对您来说很方便。 假设它不方便我？（笑声） 你们这些人，你们不是认真的，随便怎么样，都可以。你看到了吗？ 所以，先生，我们最好停下来，纳拉扬先生将宣布我明天还是星期三讲话。 先生们，可以吗？ 问：是的，让他宣布。我们将等待他的宣布。 克：再见了，先生们。

Alright, sir. Sorry to take so much trouble. On a week-day to see so many people seems rather absurd, doesn't it? I hope one hopes that you will all take the trouble to listen to each other. Last time that we met here - it was on Saturday - we talked about what is love. You may remember it, if you were here. And we are going to enquire together, I mean together, into this whole problem, very, very complex.

在工作日看到这么多人，似乎相当荒谬，不是吗？ 我希望你们都能不厌其烦地倾听彼此的声音。 我们上次在这里见面 —— 是星期六 —— 我们说到了‘什么是爱？’。 如果你在这里，你可能还记得。 我们将一起调查，我的意思是共同，调查整个问题，它非常、非常复杂。

And so if you don't mind, you have to think, not just agree, not say, 'Yes, you are so right.' and then go your own way. So we are going to enquire together into this problem of what is love. Together. Not that the speaker is the only talker, but together we are going to examine. This is not a lecture, not to instruct, or guide, or help. That would be too stupid, because we have had all that kind of help for generations upon generations and we are what we are now.

因此，如果你不介意，你必须思考，而不仅仅是同意， 不要说，‘是的，你是对的。’ 然后回到你自己的老路上。 因此，我们将一起调查这个问题：什么是爱？一起。 并不是说讲话人是唯一的说话人，而是我们将一起研究。 这不是一个讲座，不是在提供指引，也不提供向导，也不提供帮助。 那太愚蠢了，因为我们世世代代都得到了这种帮助，而我们现在还是老样子。

We must start with what we are now, not what we have been in the past, or what we shall be in the future. What we shall be in the future is what you are now. Right? What we are now, our greed, our envy, our jealousy, our great superstitious, our desire to worship somebody, to say, 'You are a holy man' and all that tommyrot.

我们必须从我们现在的样子开始， 不是从我们在这个过去中的样子，或在这个将来中可能出现的样子。 在这个将来中，可能出现的我们的样子，就是你现在的样子。对吗？ 我们现在的样子，就是我们的贪婪、我们的羡慕、我们的嫉妒、我们极大的迷信、 我们想去崇拜某人的欲望，说，“你是一个圣洁的人”，以及所有的那些胡扯。

So this is not a lecture, not an entertainment, not something you just accept, or deny, but we are talking over like two friends, if you like, two enemies across the border. But we are talking together. So you have to exercise your brain, drive it, force it, think it out.

所以这不是一个讲座，不是一场娱乐表演，不是你仅仅去接受或拒绝的东西， 而是我们像两个朋友一样交谈， 如果你喜欢这样，我们就像两个敌人穿越边境，但是我们正在一起交谈。 所以你必须使用你的大脑，驱动它，强迫它，彻底地思考它。

So we are going to go into this question: what is love? And to enquire very deeply, profoundly inot it, we must also enquire first: what is energy? Energy. Every gesture you make is based on energy. While we are listening to the speaker, you are exercising your energy. To come here from a long distance, from Beanares, or still further up, you have to use a great deal of energy. Right? To build a house, to plant a tree, to make a gesture, to talk. From childhood, from the baby, the first cry of baby is based on energy, supplied for the moment by the mother and so on. I won't go into it.

因此，我们要进入这个问题：什么是爱？ 要非常深入地、深刻地询问它，我们还必须首先询问：什么是能量？ 能量。你做出的每一个手势都是基于能量。 当我们听讲话人讲话，您正在运用你的能量。 要从很远的地方来到这里，从比纳雷斯，或者更远的地方，你必须使用大量的能量。对吗？ 建造一所房子，种一棵树，做一个手势，说话。 从儿童时期，从宝宝开始，宝宝的第一声呐喊都是基于能量， 由当时的妈妈支援，等等。我就不多说了。

So we must enquire what is energy? Are you all right, can we go on? I can go on, the speaker can go on indefinitely, because he has been at it for 60 years, or 70 years, putting the same thing in different words. So if you will kindly, seriously listen, because hearing is a great art, perhaps one of the great arts. To listen to what the other person has to say, not to interrupt, not to say, "Yes, I agree with you, and let's talk about something else."

所以我们必须询问‘什么是能量’。你们还好吧，我们继续吗？ 我可以继续，讲话人可以无限期地继续下去， 因为他已经这样走过了60年，或70年了， 用不同的词语来表达同一个东西。所以，如果你愿意，严肃地听， 因为‘听’是一门伟大的艺术，也许是伟大的艺术之一。 要听别人说什么，不要打断，不要说， “是的，我同意你的观点，让我们来谈谈其它的。”

We have to enquire first if you can listen at all. This is not a lecture, or an instruction and all that stuff, we are together examing, questioning, doubting, never, never accepting what the speaker says. Never. Right? Don't say, "Yes we agree" but then go on accepting. He has no authority.

我们必须首先询问您是否可以听。 这不是一个讲座，也不是一次指导之类的所有那些类似的东西， 我们一起检查、询问、质疑，从不、决不接受讲话人所说的话。决不！ 好吗？不要说，“是的，我们同意”，却继续地接受。他没有权威。

So we will start. What is energy? This has been one of the questions of the scientist. And they said energy is matter. Right? But previous to that: what is energy, You understand? It may be matter. It may be every kind of thing. But what is energy? Primordial energy? Who brought this energy about?

因此，我们将开始。什么是能量？ 这一直是科学家的问题之一。他们说能量就是物质。对吗？ 但在那之前：什么是能量，你理解吗？ 它可能很重要。它可能是各种各样的东西。但什么是能量？ 什么是原始的能量？谁带来了这个能量？

Are you understanding what I am talking aobut? I am not sure. Because this has been a very very serious question. So we are together taking a long journey into this, together - you and I are walking up the same stream. You are not just following the speaker. You are not just saying, "Yes, that sounds very good, so the Upanishads, and the Gita, and all that they have said, so we understand." It isn't a bit like that. First of all, one has to have great doubt. Right? Great scepticism. Right sirs? No, don't agree please, don't agree.

你理解我在说什么吗？我不确定。 因为这是一个非常、非常严重的问题。 因此，我们一起踏上了漫长的旅程，一起 —— 你和我正沿着同一条溪流往上走。 你不只是在跟随讲话人。你不只是说， “是的，这听起来很好，如同《奥义书》、《薄伽梵歌》，以及他们所说的一切，所以我们理解。” 它一点都不像那。首先，一个人必须拥有很大的怀疑。对吗？极大的怀疑。 对吧，先生们？不，请不要同意，别同意。

You don't doubt anything, you accept everything. So doubt, scepticism of your own experience, of your own thoughts, of your own conclusions, doubting, questioning, not accepting a thing from any book, including my own. I am just a passer-by, it's not important. And we are going to enquire together, it is very importatn, please, together.

你们不怀疑任何东西，你们接受每一个东西。 所以怀疑，怀疑你自己的体验，怀疑你自己的思想，怀疑你抱有的结论， 怀疑，质疑，不接受任何一本书上的任何东西，包括我的。 我只是一个路人，它并不重要。 我们将一起询问，这非常重要，拜托，一起。

You know what that means. Co-operating together to build something, to inquire in something, to see what is clear, what is doubtful, what is not clear. You are doing it. I am, and the speaker has done this but you have to do it. So we are together walking up a very long stream. You can make that stream a very, very, very strong current that will wipe you away, throw you on to the banks, or you can deal with it. So we are asking what is energy?

你知道那意味着什么。 一起合作，建造一些东西，去询问一些东西，去观看什么是清楚的，什么是可疑的、不清楚的。 你正在这样做。我正在做，讲话人已经这样做了，但你也必须这样做。 所以我们一起，沿着一条长长的溪水，逆流而上。 你可以使那条溪流变得非常、非常、非常强劲，以至于它会把你冲跑， 把你扔在岸上，或者你可以处理它。 所以我们要问：什么是能量？

That crow calling is part of energy. Right? The trees, the birds, the stars, the moon, the rising of the sun, and setting of the sun, it's all energy. Right? Probably you doubt it but it doesn't matter. And whatever you speak requires energy. The first cry of the baby out of the womb, that cry is part of that energy. Right? To play a violin, to speak, to marry, sex, everything on earth requires energy. Right?

那只乌鸦的叫声是能量的一部分。对吗？ 树林、鸟儿、星辰、月亮、朝日东升、夕阳西下，都是能量。对吗？ 可能你怀疑它，但这没关系。无论你说什么，都需要能量。 婴儿从子宫里出来的第一声哭喊，那一声哭喊就是那能量的一部分。对吗？ 拉小提琴、说话、结婚、性爱，地球上的一切，都需要能量。对吗？

So we are enquiring together what is this energy, what is the origin, what is the source, how has it begun, who created this energy? Please, careful, don't say 'God' and run away with that. I don't accept God. The speaker has no gods. Is that all right? You accept that? You will accept anything, so it doesn't matter, I will go on. Please don't allow yourselves to accept what the speaker is saying at any moment - in his books, in his talks, in his videos and all that business.

因此，我们一起询问：这个能量是什么，起源是什么，源头在哪里， 它如何开始的，谁创造了这个能量？请小心，不要说‘上帝’，然后从那里逃跑。 我不接受上帝。讲话人没有神灵。那样可以吗？ 你接受那吗？你会接受任何东西，所以没关系，我会继续。 在任何时候，请不要允许你自己接受讲话人所讲过的话 —— 在他的书中、讲话中、在他的视频里和所有的一切中。

So what is this energy? We cannot possibly exist without this energy. Right? There is no existence on earth without this energy: the trees, tremendous energy to pull up water right to the top, tons of it. That is tremendous energy. To build an aeroplane, hundreds of people are responsible for it. To go to the moon and so on. So whatever we do, or don't do, is energy. Right? The dancer, the violinist, the painter, the house-mother, the army general, everything requires energy. Right? That is a fact. Whether you accept it or not it doesn't matter.

因此，这个能量是什么？没有这个能量，我们就不可能存在。对吗？ 地球上没有这个能量就不存在： 树木，拥有巨大的能量将水拉到顶部，成吨的水。那是巨大的能量。 要制造一架飞机，需要数百人负责。去月球等等。 因此，无论我们做什么，或者不做什么，都是能量。对吗？ 舞者、小提琴家、画家、家庭主妇、军队里的将军，每个东西都需要能量。对吗？ 那是一个事实。无论你是否接受它，都无关紧要。

And we are enquiring: what is that energy? The origin of it, not just: 'yes, energy'. Or accept what the scientists say, which is energy is matter and so on. I won't go into all that because the speaker has talked to many of them about this matter. And the religious people say, 'God' and that ends it. Or some guru says it - that also ends it. They don't enquire, they don't doubt, they don't question, they don't have scepticism. Right?

我们在问：那个能量是什么？ 它的起源，不仅仅是：“是的，能量”。 或者接受科学家的说法，那就是，能量就是物质等等。 我不会进入那些，因为讲话人已经与他们中的许多人谈过这个问题。 宗教人士说，‘上帝’，那样就结束了。 或者某些上师说它 —— 那也结束了。 他们不调查，他们不怀疑，他们不质疑，他们没有怀疑。对吗？

So here we are saying, if you can, abandon all that: your books, what the Sanskrit, ancient people have said, abandon all that and leave it at the roadside, and we will take a journey together. If you can't put all that aside or leave it on the roadside, you can't follow the speaker, you can't understand the speaker. Right? Don't bother to understand him, it doesn't matter.

所以在这里，我们要说，如果可以的话，放弃那一切： 你的书本、梵文、古人所说的话，放弃所有那一切， 把它留在岸边，我们将一起踏上一段旅程。 如果你不能把所有这些放在一旁或把它扔到岸上， 你就不能跟上讲话人，你无法理解讲话人。对吗？ 不要担忧怎么去理解他，没关系。

But unfortunately you hear a lot of words, and you say, "Yes, that sounds reasonable", and so on and so on. We are not dealing with words. Words are not the mountain. The word 'mountain' is not the mountain. Right? The word 'K' is not K. You understand all this? So your name is not you. But to recognise you, but your name is not you. I think this is important to understand. The word is not the actual. Right? Is that clear? The word is not the tree. The word 'tree' is not that. Right? So we have to be very careful now, not to be entangled with words. I wonder if you follow all this.

但不幸的是，你听过很多的言语， 你说，“是的，这听起来很合理”，等等。 我们不是在处理言语。言语不是这座大山。 ‘山’这个词不是山。对吗？ ‘克’这个字不是克。你理解这一切吗？ 所以你的名字不是你。而是为了认出你，但你的名字不是你。 我认为理解这个很重要。这个词不是那真实的。对吗？ 那清楚了吗？那个词不是这棵树。‘树’这个词不是那棵树。对吗？ 因此，我们现在必须非常小心，不要被文字缠住。 我在想，你是否跟上了所有这些。

Right. I can go on because my friend has given me a signal, my old friend. And we are going into something, that requires all your energy, all your brain, which is matter, which is the accumulated experience of million years. And all that evolution means energy. Right? So I am saying... I am asking myself, you are asking for yourself, so I begin to ask myself, is there energy which is not contained, or stimulated, or held within the field of knowledge? You understand?

好的。我可以继续说下去，因为我的朋友给了我一个信号，我的老朋友。 我们正在进入某个东西，那需要你所有的能量， 你大脑的一切，也就是物质，是百万年积累的经验。 而那个进化中的一切意味着能量。对吗？ 所以我说…… 我正在问我自己，你正在问你自己，所以我开始问我自己， 有没有一种能量，它没有被包含在、或被激发、或被保存在知识的领域内？你理解吗？

Within the field of knowledge. That is, within the field of thought. Please don't agree with it. I would like to blind myself, because you agree with every damn thing that's going on. So I ask myself: is there an energy which is not put together, stimulated, arranged by thought? You understand? Thought gives you great deal of energy. To go to the office every morning at 9 o'clock, or 8:30 thought makes you, gives you that energy. Right? I must earn more money, I have a better house. Right? Thought, thinking, gives you the energy.

在知识的领域内。 那就是，在思想的领域内。请不要同意它。 我想蒙住我的双眼，因为你同意正在发生的每一件该死的事情！ 所以我问我自己：有没有一种不是被思想所汇聚、激发和安排的能量？ 你理解吗？思想给了你很大的能量。 每天早上9点或8:30去办公室，思想会安排，会给你能量。对吗？ 我必须挣更多的钱，我要有更好的房子。对吗？ 思想，思考，带给你能量。

I believe it tooke two or three hundred people or 3000 people to build a rocket that went to the moon. Right? So all that requires energy. To shake hands with you, to say, "How are you?", to recognise old friends sitting acrosss there. I am glad they have found a place, we can see each other. So I ask myself, I know thought, thinking, thinking about the past, thinking about the future, planning for the present, that gives a tremendous energy. Right?

我相信，需要两三百人或三千人才能制造出一枚登上月球的火箭。 对吗？因此，所有这些都需要能量。 和你握手，打声招呼‘你好吗？’，认出坐在对面的老友。 我很高兴他们找到了一个地方，我们可以互相见面。 所以我问我自己，我知道思想，思考， 思考这个过去，思索这个未来，规划这个现在 —— 产生了一种巨大的能量。对吗？

Right, sir? Thinking. I must build a house so I go to the architect, I agree with him, and so on and so on. And you require a great deal of energy to be educated. right? From ignorance - as they call it, I am not saying it is ignorance - from not knowing mathematics you gradually learn, and energy to go to college, university and then you become some kind of something or other. And you have a job, to that every day of your life you go. Or you retire at an early age and die. So thought - please understand this, it is very important if you will - thought creates this energy.

对吧，先生？思考。我必须建一栋房子，所以我去找建筑师，我同意他的观点，等等。 你需要大量的能量来接受教育。对吗？ 从无知 —— 这是他们的说法，我没有说它是无知 —— 从不懂数学开始，你逐渐学习，以及去上大学的能量， 然后你变成了某种人物或其他人物。你有一份工作，你生命中的每一天都去打卡。 或者你提前退休了，然后死亡。 所以思想 —— 请理解这一点，如果你愿意的话，它是非常重要的 —— 思想创造出这个能量。

To build an aeroplane. Think of what has gone into that. Hundreds of people have worked at it, step by step, by step, constructed it, and they have produced 747, or whatever it is, the most marvellous machine that can never go wrong - man can make it go wrong. And so on and so on. So thought is an extraordinary instrument of creating energy. Right? May I go on? Right. If one doesn't see that as an actual fact, then you are off the mark. Right?

建造一架飞机。思考一下，那到底是怎么回事。 数以百计的人一步一步地、一步一步地建造它，他们生产了波音747，或者不管它是什么， 最奇妙的机器永远不会出错 —— 人可以使它出错。等等、等等。 因此，思想是一件创造能量的非凡工具。对吗？我可以继续吗？ 好的。如果一个人没有看到这真切的事实，那么你就走偏了。对吗？

If you don't see it as an actual fact, that thought creates tremendous energy. You want to become a rich man, you work like blazes to get to be a rich man. Right? You want to do some kind of crazy propaganda, and you work very hard, you join groups, sects, gurus and all the rest of that business. So thought is an extraordinary instrument, of engendering thought. Right? Thought engendering energy. Right? Don't agree.

如果你不把它看作一个真切的事实，那个思想就会产生巨大的能量。 你想成为一个富人。为了致富，你像火焰一样工作。对吗？ 你想做某种疯狂的宣传，你非常努力地工作， 你加入了组织、教派、导师圈和所有其余的行业。 因此，思想是一件非凡的工具，产生出思想。对吗？ 思想产生能量。对吗？不要同意。

So then we have to enquire into the very, very, very nature of thought. Right? Not say, well - all the excuses. Don't bother about this. I fell yesterday and hurt myself, that's all, that's over. You can give your attention to something else. So thought, which has planned this society, which has divided the world into Asia and Europe, the communist, the socialist, the capitalist, and the democratic republican - all that is created by thought. It is simple.

因此，我们必须探究思想的真正的、十足的、特有的性质。对吗？ 别说：就这样吧 —— 各种借口。 别担心这个。我昨天摔倒了，伤到了我自己，仅此而已，就此打住。 你可以把你的注意力放在别的东西上。 所以思想，是它计划了这个社会， 它把世界分为亚洲和欧洲、共产主义、社会主义、 资本主义者和民主共和主义 —— 所有那些，都是由思想创造的。很简单。

The army, the navy, the airforce, to kill, not only for transportation but also to kill. This is obvious, isn't it? So thought is very important in our life, because without thought we can't do anything. Right? For you to come here from a distance required planning, adjusting, taking a train, aeroplane, taking a bus, etc., etc. all that is part of your thinking. Right? So what is thinking? You work it out, don't listen to me. What is thinking?

陆军、海军、空军、杀戮，不仅是为了运输，也是为了杀。 这一点是显而易见的，它不是吗？所以思想在我们的生命中非常重要， 因为没有思想，我们什么也做不了。对吗？ 对于你来说，从大老远跑到这里，需要计划、调整、坐火车、飞机、公交车等等。 所有那些都是你思想的一部分。对吗？那么，什么是‘思考’？ 你来解决它，不要听我讲。什么是‘思考’？

You can't live without a certain kind of thinking. Right? Planning, going back to your house, going back to do your work and so on, you are married sex and... Everything is contained in the process of thought. So what is thinking? The speaker has talked about it a lot, so don't go back to his books. Don't say, "Yes, I have heard that before." But here you forget all the books, all the things you have read, because we must approach this each time anew. So thinking is based on knowledge. Right? If you had no knowledge, how to come here or take a bus or this or that, you wouldn't be here. So knowledge, memory, thought. Right?

没有某种类型的思考，你就无法生活。对吗？ 制定计划，返回到你的住处，回到你的工作岗位上等等，你的已婚性行为，以及…… 一切都包含在思考过程中。那么，什么是思考？ 关于它，讲话人已经讲了很多，所以不要回到他的书中。 不要说，“是的，我以前听过。” 但是，在这里，你忘掉所有的书本、你读过的一切东西， 因为我们每次去靠近它，都必须重新出发。 因此，思考是以知识为基础的。对吗？ 如果你没有知识，如何到达这里、怎么坐公交车、或者这样，或者那样，你就不会到这儿。 所以知识，记忆，思想。对吗？

And we have accumulated tremendous knowledge: how to sell each other, how to exploit each other, how to build bridges, how to create gods and temples - we have done all that. The various ashramas where they're all... - you know all that business, concentration camps of a certain kind. So thought has done all this. Created the army, the navy, the aeroplane. Thought has also, through knowledge, temples and all that business. So without experience, there is no knowledge. Right?

我们积累了大量的知识：如何相互推销， 如何相互剥削，如何建造桥梁，如何创造神灵和寺庙 —— 我们已经做到了这一切。 他们拥有的各种静修房 —— 你知道所有那些玩意儿，某种类型的集中营。 所以思想已经完成了这一切。创造了陆军、海军、飞机。 通过知识，思想也创建了寺庙和所有那些生意。 因此，没有经验，就没有知识。对吗？

Be logical sirs. Logic is necessary up to a certain point. But if you start without logic, clarity, then you can do - you become superstitious, imaginative, coming to conclusions, building temples and all that kind of nonsense. So without experience there is no knowledge. The scientists are adding everyday something new. Please follow this carefully, if you don't mind. experience is limited. Right?

要讲逻辑，先生们。 逻辑在某种程度上是必要的。但是，如果你一开始就不讲逻辑，不弄清楚，那么你可以这样做 —— 你变得迷信，富有想象力，得出某些结论，建造寺庙和所有那些荒唐的东西。 因此，没有经验就没有知识。科学家们每天都在增加新的东西。 如果您不介意，请小心地跟随这些。 经验是有限的。对吗？

Becuase we are adding more and more to it through knowledge. Experience, knowledge stored in the brain as memory, and then that is the beginning of thought. Right? Am I right? Or are you right? What do you say? God, don't you feel anything? So experience is always limited. Right? Because you are adding more and more and more, everyday in the scientific world in your own life, you learn something more. So experience is limited, therefore knowledge is limited, memory is limited and therefore thought is limited. Right? Am I sane or insane?

因为我们通过知识，正在为它添加越来越多的内容。 经验、知识被作为记忆储存在大脑中，而这些就是思想的起源。 对吗？我说得对吗？或者你是对的？你说什么？天啊！你们什么都感觉不到吗？ 所以经验总是有限的。对吗？ 因为，在科学领域中，你们每天都在增加越来越多的东西，你学到了更多的东西。 因此，经验是有限的，知识是有限的，记忆是有限的，因而思想是有限的。对吗？ 我是个正常人，还是疯子？

And we live by thought. So we never recognise, though thought can imagine the most extraordinary heaven and hell, the Olympic gods of the Greeks, the Egyptian gods, do you know anything about all that? No, it doesn't matter. So, your thought is always limited and your gods whom thought has created will always be limited. Right? I know you don't like this but - don't hear it. So your gods, your thinking, however wide it may be, or however narrow it may be, all this is limited.

我们靠思想而活。 因此，我们从来都不认为，尽管思想可以想象最不寻常的天堂和地狱， 希腊人的奥林匹克众神，埃及的神灵，你对这一切一无所知吗？ 不，没关系。所以，你的思想总是受限制的，而由思想创造出来的你的神灵将永远是受限的。对吗？ 我知道你不喜欢这些，但是 —— 不要听它。 因此，你的神灵、你的思考，无论它有多么宽广，或者多么狭窄，所有这些都受到限制。

And from this limitation, we try to find the energy. You understand what I am saying? We try to find the origin, the beginning of creation. So thought has created fear. Right? No? Hasn't it? Aren't you frightened of what may happen two years later? No? Aren't you frightened of losing your job, of not passing exams, of not climbing the ladder - you know what I mean by climbing the ladder: getting more and more and more successful. And you are frightened of not being able to fulfil. you are frightened of not being able to stand alone, being strong to yourself. Right? You always depend on somebody. All that breeds tremendous fear. Right?

从这个限制中，我们试图找到这个能量。你理解我在说什么吗？ 我们试图找到这个源头、这个创造的起源。 因此，思想创造了恐惧。对吗？不对？它没有吗？ 你不害怕两年后会发生什么吗？不怕？ 难道你不害怕失去工作，没有通过考试，没有爬上梯子吗？ —— 你知道我所说的‘爬上梯子’是什么意思：越来越成功。 你害怕无法实现。 你害怕无法独自站立，你自己无法处于强大的状态。对吗？ 你总是依赖某人。所有那些都滋生出巨大的恐惧。对吗？

Won't you wink at me? So it is one of our daily facts that we are frightened people. Right? Would you agree to that very simple fact that we are frightened people? And fear arises when we want security. Right? You just listen. All right, I'll go on. Don't bother, I'll go on. Fear destorys love. You cannot have love without... Love cannot exist where fear is. Fear is a tremendous energy on its own. And love has no relationship with fear. They are totally divorced. Right?

你不会对我眨眼吗？ 因此，我们日常的事实之一就是：我们是受到惊吓的人。对吗？ 你会同意那个非常简单的事实吗，也就是我们是受到惊吓的人？ 当我们想要安全的时候，恐惧就产生了。对吗？ 你只晓得听。很好，我会继续。别担心，我会继续。 恐惧毁灭爱。你不可能有爱…… 有恐惧的地方就没有爱。 恐惧本身就是一种巨大的能量。爱与恐惧没关系。 他们是完全分开的。对吗？

So what is the origin of fear? Right? All this is to understand to be alive to the nature of love. If you don't understand all this, then go and carry on whatever you are doing. Be happy with it, enjoy yourself, making money, positions and all the blah.

那么恐惧的起源是什么呢？对吗？ 所有这一切是为了理解‘在爱的自然中生活’。 如果你不理解这一切，那就继续你正在做的事情。 对它感到高兴，享受你自己，赚钱，升职和所有那些东西。

But if you want to go into this very carefully, you have not only to examing what is thinking and the machines, the computers are doing that marvellously, you don't know anything - the latest. I talked to some of the professors in England just before I came to India, before the speaker came to India. There are computers that can think backwards and forwards. You understand what that means?

但是，如果你想非常仔细地研究这个问题，你不仅要检查“思考”是什么， 还要检查机器，电脑正在非凡地做到那一点，你什么都不知道 —— 最新消息。 在我来印度之前，在讲话人来到印度之前，我和英国的一些教授交谈过。 某种电脑可以向后和向前思考。你理解这意味着什么吗？

They can think what I have... One has to get up at six, therefore it has to plan to get up at six. Right? And after six what it has to do. And I believe that is called... Forgotten, it will come back. So the machines - please understand this -the machines, which is the computer... You know that joke? One is praying for God and there is a computer next door, at his knees, and the computer says, 'Whom are you praying to? God is here'

它们可以思考“我拥有什么”…… 一个人必须在六点起床，因此它必须计划在六点起床。对吗？ 六点过后，它必须做什么。我相信那被称为…… 忘了，它会回来的。 所以机器 —— 请理解这一点 —— 机器，这里是指电脑... 你知道那个笑话吗？一个人正在向上帝祷告，跪在他面前，隔壁有一台电脑， 而这台电脑说：“你在向谁祷告？上帝在这儿。”

No sir, you don't know how serious it is. So... Architecture, that's the word. When - I only learnt this recently and it may be wrong, it may be right - a computer can think what has happened and plan what will happen and for the future. Which the brain is doing. You understand? You plan to come here, you spend so much money, so much time and then go back, go forward. So the computers can think forward and backwards which is called Architecture I believe, they may have changed the name by now. I am going to ask one of the specialists here.

不，先生，你不知道它有多严重。 所以…… 架构，就是那个词。当 —— 我最近才知道这个，它可能是错的，它也可能是对的 —— 电脑可以思考发生了什么，并计划将要发生的事情和未来。 那就是大脑正在做的事情。你理解吗？ 你计划到这里来，你花了那么多钱，那么多时间，然后回去，接着往前。 因此，这些电脑可以向前和向后思考，这被称之为‘架构’，我相信， 他们现在可能已经改变了这个名称。我要问这里的一位专家。

So, thinking has created fear. Right? Thinking about the future, thinking about the past and not being able to adjust quickly to the environment and so on, so on. So thought and time. Right? No, you don't understand. I will go on. Thought of tomorrow, what might happen, my wife might leave me, or might die. I am a lonely man, then what am I to do? I have several children so I had better marry, remarry someone or other, because at least they can look after my children. And so on.

所以，思考创造出恐惧。对吗？ 想想这个未来，想想这个过去，不能快速地适应这个环境等等。 所以思想和时间。对吗？不，你不理解。我会继续。 想想明天可能发生什么事情，我的妻子可能离开我，或者可能死去。 我是一个孤单的人，那我该怎么办？ 我有几个孩子，所以我最好结婚，再嫁给某个人或其他人， 因为至少他们可以照顾我的孩子。等等。

That is thinking of the future based upon the past, right? And so thinking and time are involved in this. Right? Thinking about the future, future being day after tomorrow, or tomorrow, and thinking about that causes fear. Right?

那就是根据这个过去，对这个未来进行思考，对吗？ 因此，思考和时间都在这里。对吗？ 想想这个未来，未来会是后天，或者明天，就那么一想，爆发了恐惧。对吗？

So time, thought, are the factors of fear. And we know, we have examined thought, we have examined time. Time is the past, the present and the future, the rising of the sun and the setting of the sun, planting a seed and becoming a huge tree. That is time. And also we have got inward time: I am this but I will become a rich millionaire. I am greedy but, give me time, I won't be - next life perhaps. And so on and so on. So time and thought are the central factors of fear.

所以，时间，思想，是恐惧的组成因素。 而我们知道，我们检查了思想，我们检查了时间。 时间是这个过去，这个现在和这个未来，太阳升起，太阳落山， 播一粒种子，长成一棵大树。那就是时间。 我们也有内在的时间：我是这个，但我将成为一个富有的百万富翁。 我很贪婪，但是，给我一点时间，我将不会贪婪 —— 也许是下辈子，等等，等等。 因此，时间和思想是恐惧的核心因素。

I am looking for a clock. Audience: Ten past six. K: Thank you. So I have talked for a hour and a quarter? Audience: Forty minutes. K：Is that all, too bad! So, let me finish this. Allow me another twenty minutes, if you don't mind. Do you mind? I won't keep you very long.

我正在寻找一只表。 观众：十点零六分。 克：谢谢。 所以我已经谈了一个小时一刻钟了？ 观众：四十分钟。 克：是吗？太糟糕了！因此，让我来结束这个。 如果你不介意的话，再给我二十分钟时间。你介意吗？ 我不会让你们待太久。

It won't make any difference if you listen to me or not. You will carry on in exactly the same way as you have been living. You won't change, you won't do a thing, because you are caught in a rut, in a groove, in a pattern. And you will go on and death is there. Right?

不管你听不听我，都不会有什么不同。 你会以你一直以原来的方式，一成不变地继续活着。 你不会改变，你不会做丝毫改变，因为你陷入窠臼，陷进一个凹槽，跌入一个模型中。 你会继续，死亡就在那里。对吗？

So we are enquiring into something which you may not understand but it doesn't matter. Time, thought are our principal factors of life. And both time inwardly - I am this but I will be that, or I have been, I shall be, I am, I shall be - all that involves time. And time is thought, they are not two separate things. They are both movements. Then what place has death? You understand, sirs? What place in my life has death, suffering, pain, anxiety, loneliness, all those terrible things I have gone through?

因此，我们正在调查某个东西，您可能不理解，但没关系。 时间，思想是我们生命的主要因子。 两者都涉及到内在的时间 —— 我是这样的人，但我会成为那样的人， 或者我以前不行，但我以后就会；我是，我会 —— 所有那些都涉及时间。 时间是思考，它们不是两个分开的东西。它们都在动。 那么，死亡在哪里？你理解吗，先生们？ 在我的这条命里，在这条遭受苦难、痛楚、焦虑、孤独，以及历经那些恐怖事件的生命里， 死亡在哪个地方？

Merci beaucoup. Sir, I had better take your watch, whoever will give it to me. I might lose it, or you might lose it. You understand sir, please understand this very carefully. Time, thought, are central factors of life. And we are saying, thought and time are the factors of fear. That is a fact whether you like it or not. So what has suffering to do with time? You are following all this?

非常感谢。 先生，我最好拿走你的手表（观察，双关之义），谁会把它给我。 我可能会失去它，或者你可能会失去它。 您理解，先生，请理解这个点，非常小心地。 时间，思想，是生命的核心因子。 我们说，思想和时间是恐惧的起因。 那是一个事实，不管你喜不喜欢。 那么，苦难与时间有什么关系？ 你跟上了这一切了吗？

What has suffering, pain, anxiety, loneliness, despair and all the travail that man goes through, what has that... Is that all our life? You understand what I'm asking you? We are journeying together. You are not just sitting there and listening to a nonsensical speaker. I am asking you. This is your life, right sirs? Facts, not imagination. You are born, educated and you fit into BAs, MAs and all the rest of it, PhDs, in order to get a job or you become a great Prime Minister or minister, for god's sake, you understand?

为什么有苦难、痛苦、焦虑、孤独、绝望和人类所经历的所有艰辛， 为什么有那些…… 那一切是我们所有人的生活吗？你理解我在问你什么吗？ 我们在一起旅行。 你不仅仅是坐在那里，听一个打胡乱说的讲话人。 我正在问你。这是你的生活，对吗，先生们？ 是事实，不是想象。 你出生，被教育，你成为了文科学士、硕士和所有其他的博士， 为了找一份工作，或者你成为一个伟大的总理或部长， 看在上帝的份上，你理解吗？

This is your life. This is your consciousness, your consciousness is composed of your fears, of your knowledge, of your time, you know, consciousness. Your knowledge, everything is in your consciousness. And in that consciousness, of which you are, that consciousness you have always thought is yours, mine, 'My consciousness' You understand my question? Don't cross your legs, just sit comfortably as you were, I am looking at you - don't suddenly change. Your consciousness, if you examine it very carefully, not examine it through judgements, evaluations, what you know, but if you examine it very carefully, your consciousness is made up of its content. Right?

这是你的命。 这是你的意识，你的意识是由你的恐惧、你的知识、你的时间组成，你知道，意识。 你的知识，一切东西都在你的意识里。 在那意识中，包含了你，那个意识，你一直认为是你的：‘我的’，‘我的意识’ 你理解我的问题吗？ 别盘腿，就像你刚才那样，舒服地坐着，我正在看你 —— 不要突然地改变。 你的意识，如果你非常仔细地检视它， 而不是通过判断、评估，你所知道的其余方式， 而是，如果你非常仔细地检视它，你的意识是由里面的内容组成。对吗？

Do you understand what I am saying? What you think, what your tradition, what your education, how many fears, whether you want to exchange your wife for a new wife, or whether you go to a certain temple, all that, loneliness, fear - is what you are! You may think you are divine inside, but still you are thinking. When you say, 'Yes, there is God in me', it is still the product of thought. So your consciousness, which is what you are, not physically, but psychologically, inwardly which is your consciousness is the consciousness of mankind.

你理解我在说什么？ 你的思想、你的传统、你接受的教育、你拥有的众多恐惧、 无论你是想用你的妻子换一个新妻子，还是去某个寺庙，所有的这一切，孤独，恐惧 —— 就是你！ 你也许在想你的内在是神圣的，但你还是在想。 当你说，“是的，我的里面有上帝”，它依然是思想的产物。 所以你的意识，也就是你，不是生理上的，而是心理上的，在里面， 那也就是，你的意识是人类的这个意识。

Listen carefully. Don't accept anything he says. Every human being on this earth goes through it: sorrow, pain, anxiety, uncertainty, insecurity, quarrels, coaxing, wanting this, not wanting. All that is what you are. If you imagine that you are a god incarnate, that is part of thought. Right? Thought - as we pointed out - that's limited. So your consciousness, what you are, is the rest of mankind. Every man goes through this. Or every woman. Every human being goes through this. Right? Every human being: your neighbour, your father, your grand father and the past generations all over the world. So you are not individuals. This is a blow.

仔细听。不要接受他说出的任何东西。 地球上的每一个人类都经历过它： 悲伤、痛苦、焦虑、不确定、不安全、争吵、哄骗、想要这个、不想要那个。所有这一切都是你。 如果你把自己想成上帝的化身，那是思想的一部分。对吗？ 思想 —— 正如我们所指出的 —— 那是局限。 因此你的意识，也就是‘你’，‘你’就是‘别人’。每个人都经历了这些。对吗？ 每一个人类：你的邻居、你的父亲、你们的祖父和老祖宗们，遍布于世界各地。 因此，你不是一个独立的人。这是一个打击。

Don't accept it. Examine it, don't say, 'It is rot' or, 'It is not a fact becuase the Gita says something' or the Upanishads say something, or the Bible says something. It is a fact that you, your suffering, your pain, your anxiety, your loneliness, your knowledge is common to - I won't use 'common' - is shared by every human being. Right? So you are not a separate soul, a separate Atman. I know you don't like this, because you were brought up to swallow anything that goes along. So there must be freedom from fear, from hurts, from every kind of thing human beings have put together. There must be freedom, you understand? not just words. "India must be free from the rest of the world". That's just nonsense. Nobody can live by themselves, they need a friend, they need somebody to help. So we are trying to find out, enquire into what is love. Right?

不要接受它。检查它，别说，“它是腐烂的”，或者，“它不是一个事实，因为《薄伽梵歌》上是这么说的”， 或者《奥义书》说了那个，或者《圣经》上说了某个东西。 它是一个事实：你、你的苦难、你的痛苦、你的焦虑、你的孤独、你的知识是每一个人类所共有的。对吗？ 所以你不是一个分裂的灵魂，一个分裂的宇宙灵魂。 我知道你不喜欢这些，因为你从小就被教育去吞下身边的任何东西。 因此，必须自由，从恐惧、伤心和人类所拼凑的每一样东西中解放。 必须自由，你理解？不只是在言语上。 “中国(印度)必须摆脱世界上其他国家的束缚”。那只是无稽之谈。 没有人能独自生活，他们需要一个朋友，他们需要有人帮助。 因此，我们在试图找出、询问‘什么是爱’。对吗？

We are saying, as long as there is fear of any kind, biologically, fear of attachment, fear of loss, fear of any kind, the other cannot exist. If there is any kind of attachment, the other cannot exist - the other being love. So we are going to inquire, if time allows. Then seeing all this, from the beginning, from the baby to the grown man, seeing what the world is and inquiring into what is death. Why are we all so frightened of death? You understand?

我们说，只要有任何形式的恐惧， 生理上的，依恋的恐惧、害怕失去的恐惧，任何一种恐惧，另一个就不可能存在。 如果有任何一种依恋，另一个就不能存在 —— 另一个就是爱。 因此，如果时间允许，我们将进行调查。 然后，看这一切，从一开始，从婴儿到成年人， 看这个世界是什么，并询问什么是死亡。 为什么我们都这么怕死？你理解？

You know what it means to die? Haven't you seen dozens of people killed, or hurt or... Haven't you? No? Are you strange people, or what? (Laughter) Belong to a different planet? We have seen death. We have never enquired very deeply into what is death. It is a very important question, as what is life. You understand?

你知道死亡意味着什么吗？ 你难道没有看到几十个人被杀，受伤或…… 你没见过吗？没有吗？ 你是一个怪人，还是什么？（笑声） 属于另一个星球？我们已经看到了死亡。 我们从来没有深入询问过‘什么是死亡’。 它是一个非常重要的问题，就像‘什么是生命’一样。你理解？

We said life is all this - rot. We have said life is knowledge, learning, you know, all that stuff going to the office regularly every day at 9 o'clock, or 10 o'clock, quarrelling, battling, wanting this and not wanting - you follow? We know what living is. Right? A series of actions produce a series of reactions, and sorrow, pain - that is our life. Then if that is living, which it is, don't say, 'Yes, living is something extraordinary upstairs' this is living - quarrelling, divorcing, fighting.

我们说生命就是这一切 —— 腐朽的。 我们说过生命是知识、学习，你知道，所有的那些材料 每天9点或10点准时去办公室，争吵，争吵，想要这个，不想要那个 —— 你跟着吗？ 我们知道什么是生命。对吗？ 一系列的行动产生一系列的反应，悲伤，痛苦 —— 这就是我们的生命。 然后，如果这就是生命，它就是，不要说，“是的，生命是一种非凡的、高高在上的东西”， 这就是生命 —— 争吵、离婚、打架。

But we have never enquired seriously into what is death. You understand what I am talking about? We know what is living, if you are honest and you can imagine anything you like but this is living. You can imagine heaven is there and God sort of nod to you, every prayer is answered and all that rot. At least for me, for the speaker.

但我们从未认真探究过‘什么是死亡’。 你理解我在说什么吗？ 我们知道什么是生命，如果你是正直的，你可以去想象任何你喜欢的东西，但这就是生命。 你可以想象天堂在上面，上帝在向你点头，每一个祷告都得到了回应，而所有那些都是腐朽的。 至少对我，对讲话人来说。

But we have never seriously enquired into what is dying. Alright, sir? What is dying? It must be an extraordinary thing to die. No? Extraodinary thing. Everything has been taken away from you: your attachments, your money, you wife, your children, your country, your superstitions, your gurus, your gods, everything is gone. Right?

但我们从未认真调查过‘什么是死亡’。你还好吗，先生？ 什么是死亡？它必定是一件非同寻常的东西。不是吗？非凡的东西。 每一个东西都从你身上夺走了：你的依恋、你的钱、你的妻子、你的孩子、 你的国家、你的迷信、你的导师、你的神灵，一切都失去了。对吗？

You may wish to take it to the other world, but you can't take your money, your bank account - right? - your attachments, your gurus, your temples. You can invent temples up there, not after your death, but while living you can invent all the gods on earth. But when death comes it says, "Look, you cannot take anything with you. All your attachments, all your affections, all your hurts, all the things that you have gethered in life, you can't carry, there is no space for that." Right?

你可能希望把它带到另一个世界，但你不能拿走你的钱、你的银行账户 —— 对吧？—— 你的依恋、你的导师、你的寺庙。 你可以在上面发明寺庙，不是在你死后，而是活着的时候，你可以发明地球上所有的神灵。 但是当死亡来临，它说：“看，你不能带走任何一个东西。 你所有的依恋、你所有的感情、你所有的伤害、在你的生命中得到的一切东西， 你都无法携带，没地方放。” 对吗？

So death says, "Be totally detached". Right? That is what happens when death comes. You have no person to lean on, nothing. Right? You have understood this? You can believe that you will be reincarnated next life. That is a very comforting idea, but it may not be a fact, it may be your imagination, your longing, your "I can't leave my wife" I have left so much for my son but I will meet him next life so I'll tell him off and so on. So we are trying to find out what it means to die - while living, not committing suicide, I am not talking about that kind of nonsense.

所以死亡说，‘完全地解脱’。对吗？ 那就是死亡降临时发生的情景。 你没有人可以依靠，什么都没有。对吗？你理解这吗？ 你可以相信：你会在来世投胎。 那是一个非常令人欣慰的想法，但它可能不是一个事实，它可能是你的想象，你的渴望， 你的‘我不能离开我的妻子’ 我为我的儿子留下了很多东西，但我下辈子会遇到他，所以我会告诉他等等。 因此，我们试图找出死亡意味着什么 —— 在活着的时候， 不是自杀，我不是在谈论那种荒唐的东西。

I want to find out what it means to die. Not jump in the river, I don't mean that or go off to the Himalayas and die there. But I want to find out for myself what it means to die. Which means, can I be totally free from everything that man has created, including myself? You know there is an Italian joke, sorry to repeat it: 'The whole world will die, perhaps including me.' So I want to find out what the actual fact when death says, enough. Right? Do you want to find out? No. Do you really want to find out?

我想知道死亡意味着什么。 不是跳河，我不是那个意思，也不是去喜马拉雅山，然后死在那里。 但我想亲自找出什么是死亡。 也就意味着，我能完全地摆脱一个人所创造的一切、包括我自身，从中解脱吗？ 你知道有一个意大利笑话，很抱歉重复它：“整个世界都会死，也许包括我在内。” 所以，当死亡说‘够了！’，我想找出那个真切的事实。对吗？ 您想去找吗？不。你真的想找出吗？

what does it mean to die? Give up everything. Right? Not sacrifice, don't use those silly words. It cuts you off with a very, very, very sharp razor, from your attachments, from your gods, from your superstitions, from your desire for comfort next life and so on and so on, so on. So I am going to find out what death means, because it is as important as living. living!

死亡意味着什么？放弃一切东西。对吗？ 不是牺牲，不要用那些愚蠢的词语。 它用一把非常、非常、非常锋利的剃刀切断了你， 切断了你的执着、你的神灵、你对来世舒服的渴望，等等，等等。 所以我要找出死亡意味着什么，因为它和生命一样重要。生命！

So how can I find out, actually, not theoretically, make evaluations about it and form societies and, you know, all that circus. But I actually want to find out, as you want to find out, I am speaking for you, so don't go to sleep. So what does it mean to die? One is very healthy, the body is functioning, there is no desease, like K, at ninety one, he has no disease, no pain etc., etc. because I have seen experts, doctors.

因此，我怎么能找出， 真实地，不是在理论上对它进行评估，并形成多种社会(人间、天堂、地狱等等)，你知道，所有的那些把戏。 但我真地很想找出，正如你想找出， 我是在与你讲话，所以别睡觉。 因此，死亡意味着什么？一个人非常健康，这个身体在工作， 没有疾病，像‘克’一样，在九十一岁时，他没有疾病，没有疼痛等等，因为我看过专家，医生。

So what does it mean to die? Put that question to yourself, don't listen to me. While you are young, or when you are very old, this question is always there. Right? It is always asking, demanding what it means to die. Are you interesting in this? Are you? Oh no, don't shake your head, sir. Do you know what it means?

那么，死亡意味着什么？ 拿着这个问题问你自己，别听我讲。 在你年轻的时候，或者当你很老的时候，这个问题总是在这儿。对吗？ 它总是在问，在要求：死亡意味着什么？ 你对这个有兴趣吗？你有吗？ 哦，不，不要摇头，先生。你知道这是什么意思吗？

To be totally free, to be totally unattached to everything that man has put together or what you have put together - totally free. No attachments, no gods, no future, no past. You don't know what it all means either. You don't see the beauty of it, the greatness of it, the extraordinary strength of it. So while living, to be dying. You understand what that means?

完全地自由， 完全脱离人类所拼凑的一切，或者你所拼凑的一切 —— 完全地解放。 没有依恋，没有神灵，没有未来，没有过去。 你不知道这一切意味着什么。 你看不到它的美、它的伟大、它非凡的力量。 因此在活着的时候，就去送死。你理解那意味着什么吗？

While you are living, every moment you are dying. So throughout life you are not attached to a thing, your wife, your father, your mother, your grandmother, your country, your... Nothing. Because that is what death means. Right? You may wish for another life. That is all too easy, too simple, too idiotic. So living is dying. You understand? Living means every day you are abandoning everything that you are attached to. What you worship, what you think, what you don't think, your gods, your country - nothing! Can you do this?

当你还活着的时候，每时每刻你都去送死。 因此，在一生中，你不依恋任何一件东西， 你的妻子、你的父亲、你的母亲、你的祖母、你的国家、你的…… 都不依恋。 因为这就是死亡的意思。对吗？ 你可能希望有另一个生命。那太容易了，太简单了，太愚蠢了。 所以生活就是死亡。你理解？ 生活意味着你每天都在抛弃你所依恋的每一件东西。 你的崇拜、你的赞同、你的反对、你的神、你的国家 —— 什么都没有！你能做这吗？

Can you do this? A very simple fact, but it has got tremendous implications. So that each day is a new day. You understand? Each day you are dying and incarnating. Oh, you don't understand. There is tremendous vitality, energy there. You understand? Because there is nothing you are afraid of. There is nothing that can hurt, - being hurt doesn't exist. Thought is limited, therefore it has no importance, it has importance because I have to get up and go in five minutes, but time, thought, fear, attachment, and all the things that man has put together has to be totally abandoned. That's what it means to die.

你这么做吗？ 一个非常简单的事实，但它具有深远的影响。 因此每一天都是新的一天。你理解？ 每一天你都在死亡和投胎。哦，你没有理解。 那里有巨大的活力、能量。你理解？ 因为你没有什么东西可害怕。 没有什么东西能伤害 —— 受伤不存在。 思想是局限的，因此它没有重要性， 它有它的重要性，因为我必须在五分钟内起床和离开， 但是时间、思想、恐惧、依恋、以及人类收集的所有东西都必须完全抛弃。 那就是死亡的意义。

God may be waiting to save you in heaven, it all sounds so ridiculous. So can you do it? Will you try it? Will you experiment with it? Not for just a day. Every day. No, sir, you can't do it. Your brains are not trained for this. Your brains have been conditioned so heavily, by your education, by your tradition, by your books, by your professors, by your - all the rest of it.

上帝可能在天堂等着拯救你，听起来是那么地荒唐！ 因此你能做它吗？你会尝试它吗？你会实验它吗？ 不只是一天。每一天。不，先生，你做不到它。 你的大脑没有接受过这方面的训练。 你的大脑已经受到了严重的制约， 受到你的教育、你的传统、你的书本、你的教授、你的 —— 其余所有的东西。

This requires to find out, what is love. Love and death go together. Because death says,"Be free, non-attached, nothing you can carry with you." And love says, There is no word for it. So love can exist only when there is freedom, not from your wife, for a new girl, or a new husband, but the feeling, the enormous strength, the vitality, the energy of complete freedom.

这需要找出，什么是爱。爱和死亡并肩而行。 因为死亡说，“要自由，不依恋，你没有任何东西可以带走。” ‘爱’说 —— 它无话可说。 因此，只有在自由中，爱才存在，不在你的妻子、你的新娘或新郎身上， 而是这感觉、这巨大的力量、这活力、这完全自由的能量。

Next time we meet, we will talk about religion and meditation. I hope that's all right. I am sorry there are only three talks, but the speaker cannot carry on. You understand? He is ninety one and that is good enough. It's over sir!

下次我们见面时，我们会说说宗教和冥想。我希望那一切都好。 我很抱歉，只有三场讲话，但讲话人无法继续。你理解？ 他九十一岁了，那已经足够好了。它结束了，先生！

You don't mind if we start 5 minutes early? I suppose we must talk. Will you kindly participate in what he's talking about? Will you? kindly, follow, if you wish, what he is talking about. Not only follow, but, together, share. I mean by participate in it not just think about it or casually pay attention to it, but rather together go into what the speaker is going to talk about presently. One or two things must be made very clear.

你不介意我们提前五分钟开始吗？我想我们必须说话。 你会友好地参与他所讲的东西吗？ 你会吗？如果你愿意，请听他在说什么。 不只是跟随，而是在一起，分享。 我的意思是参与其中，不仅仅是思考它，或偶尔地关注它， 而是一起进入讲话人现在要谈论的东西里。 必须非常清楚一个或两个东西。

This is not a personality cult. Right? The speaker has an abomination of all that, to woship somebody, because everything he is saying is contradictory if you personally worship an individual or make something into a god, into a... All the nonsense that goes on in the world. What is important is to listen to what he has to say, share it, not only listen, but actually participate in what he's saying. You may agree, or disagree, which you are perfectly right to do, but since you are here and since the speaker is here, we are talking over together.

这不是一种私人崇拜。 对吧？讲话人对所崇拜的一切东西有一种憎恶， 因为他说的每一个东西都是矛盾的，如果你私自崇拜一个人， 或者把某个东西制造成一个神，或者制造成…… 所有那些荒唐的事情都蔓延在这个世界上。 但是，重要的是听他所说的话，分享它， 不仅要听，还要真正地参与他所说的东西。 你可能同意或不同意，你这样做是完全正确的， 但是既然你在这里，既然讲话人在这里，我们就要一起讨论。

We have talked about - I've forgotten - we talked about life, the very complexity of life, the beginning of life. We are going together to see what is life? What is the origin of all this? The earth, the marvellous earth, the lovely evening and the early morning sun, the rivers, the valleys, the mountains and the glory of the land which is being disseminated, spoilt.

我们已经说过 —— 我已经忘记了 —— 我们说过生命，生命的复杂性，生命的开始。 我们要一起去看看生命是什么吗？这一切的起源是什么？ 大地，奇妙的大地，可爱的傍晚和清晨的阳光、河流、山谷、高山， 以及正在被扩张和破坏的这片土地的荣光。

So, what is the origin of all this? If you say 'God', then it's finished, then you can trot along quite happily, because you've solved the problem. But if you begin to question, doubt, as one should, all gods all gurus - I don't belong to that tribe - if you begin to question all that man has put together through a long evolution of two million years, from the beginning of the Sumerians and so on, the Hebrews, ancient Egyptians, down the corridors of History they have always asked this question: what is the beginning? What is the origin? How has all this come about?

因此，这一切的起源是什么？如果你说“上帝”，那么它就结束了， 那么你可以很高兴地蹦蹦跳跳，因为你已经解决了这个问题。 但是，如果你开始质疑，怀疑，如同一个人应该，所有的神，所有的上师们 —— 我不属于那个部落 —— 如果你开始质疑人类通过两百万年的漫长演变而拼凑起来的一切东西， 从苏美尔人开始等等，希伯来人，古埃及人，沿着历史的走廊， 他们一直在问这个问题：什么是开始？什么是起源？这一切是怎么来的？

I hope you are asking that question. Don't just listen to me, to the speaker with wide eyes, or with narrow eyes, or whatever eyes you have, but share in it, tear it to pieces. Don't, please accept anything he says. He's not your guru, thank god. He is not your leader. He is not your helper. Right? So, that is the platform, that is the beginning of this talk.

我希望你正在问那个问题。 不要只是听我讲话，对着讲话人睁着大眼睛，或眯着眼，或随便你用什么样子的眼睛， 而是要分享它，把它撕成碎片。 不要，拜托，请不要接受他说的任何东西。 他不是你的导师，谢天谢地。 他不是你的领袖。他不是你的助手。对吗？ 所以，那就是这个平台，是这次讲话的开始。

This is a very serious talk we are going into, and unless your brain is active, not just sit there and gaze, is actually active, one is afraid that you won't be able to follow. That would be useless for the speaker and for you sit here and listen to a lot of words. But if we could together take a long journey, a very long journey, not in terms of time, not in terms of belief or conclusions or theories, but as we have examined very carefully, the way of our lives: fear, uncertainty, insecurity, and all the inventions that man has made including the extraordinary computers and so on,

我们将要进入的，是一次非常严肃的讲话 除非你的大脑是活跃的，不只是坐在那里，瞪着眼睛，而是真切地活跃， 我担心你将无法跟随。 这对讲话人和坐在这里的你来说，听这些长篇大论是没有用的。 但是，如果我们能一起走一段漫长的旅程，一段很长的路， 不是在时间上，不是在信仰、结论或理论上， 而是我们非常仔细地研究我们生活的这条路： 恐惧、不确定、不安全，以及人类建造的所有发明，包括非凡的电脑等等。

if you take a long journey into this - where are we at the end of two million years? Where are we going? Not some theory, not what some wretched book says, however holy it is. Where are we all going? And where have we begun? They're both related to each other: where we are going, where we began. The beginning may be the ending. Do you understand? I don't know if you understand what I'm talking aobut. Don't agree, find out.

如果你长途跋涉深入这些 —— 这两百万年以来的此刻，我们在哪？我们奔哪儿去了？ 不是某个理论，不是某一本卑劣的书所说的，无论它多么神圣。 我们在往哪里走？我们从哪里开始的？ 它们都是相互关联的：我们去哪里，我们从哪里开始的？ 这个开始可能就是这个结束。你理解吗？ 我不知道你是否理解我在说什么。 不要同意，找出来。

There may be no beginning and no ending and we're going to investigate into that together. Is that all right? Do you approve of all that? It doesn't matter if you approve or not, I'm going. From the beginning of time, man has always thought in terms of religion. Right? The ancient Egyptians had theire Isis, Osiris and all the gods and the ancient Hebrews and so on right down to the present day. What is religion? You understand my question?

可能没有开始，也没有结束，我们将一起调查那。 可以那样吗？你赞成那一切吗？ 不管你赞成与否，我上路了。 从时间的开端，人就一直从宗教的角度思考。 对吗？古埃及人有他们的伊希斯、奥西里斯和所有的神，古希伯来人等等，直到如今。 什么是宗教？你理解我的问题吗？

What is religion? Why are we so inclined - or not, saying, "I don't believe in anything" But man has always sought something more than this world. They've worshipped the stars, the sun, the moon and their own creations; it has been a tremendous endeavour, effort, energy, spent on ancient temples, mosques and the Churches of course. They have spent tremendous energy on this. Some of them most extraordinary beautiful, others are hideous - around the corner you can find them.

什么是宗教？为什么我们如此倾向于 —— 或者不倾向于它，说，“我不相信任何东西”， 但人总是寻求比这个世界更多的东西。 他们崇拜星星、太阳、月亮和他们自己的制造品； 它是一笔巨大的投入、努力、能量，被花费在古老的庙宇、清真寺和教堂上。 他们为此花费了巨大的能量。 其中一些最是非凡的美丽，另一些则是丑陋的 —— 在拐角处你可以找到它们。

And we are asking: what is the spirit of man that sought something beyond the world, the present day agony, the travail, the work, the going to the factory, to the office and climbing the ladder of success, making money, trying to impress people, trying to command, right from top to down. Right? Right? Are you agreed with it? It is a fact whether you agree or not. You're all seeking power in some form. They want to be at the centre of things in Delhi, or here, or in other places. They want to be there.

我们在问：什么是人的灵性 —— 寻求超越这个世界的某个东西，今天的痛苦，艰辛，工作， 去工厂，去办公室，攀爬成功的阶梯，赚钱， 试图给人们留下深刻的印象，试图去命令，从顶层到底层。对吗？ 对吗？你同意它吗？ 无论你同意与否，这都是事实。 你们都在以某种形式寻求权力。 他们希望处于中央，处在德里(印度的首都，相当于中国的北京)，或者这里或者其他地方的中心位置。 他们想占据那个地位。

But, we are asking: what is religion? what is that made man spend enormous treasures, or given treasures to a temple and so on what made him do all this? Are we talking together? Yes? Yes? Somebody tell me a little bit. Gosh, you need a lot of poking, don't you? What made him do all this? What was the energy that was given to all this? Was it fear, Was it a seeking a reward from heaven, or hell whatever you like to call it? Seeking a reward. Was that the origin?

但是，我们问：什么是宗教？ 是什么让人类花费了巨大的宝藏，或者把宝藏给了寺庙等等， 是什么让他做出这一切？我们在一起说话吗？ 在吗？是吗？来个人告诉我一下。 天哪！你们需要大量的刺激，不是吗？ 是什么让他做了这一切？赋予这一切的能量是什么？ 是恐惧，是寻求从天而降的奖赏，还是那该死的任何一个你所喜好的名称？ 寻求奖励。那是源头吗？

Because man, as you, you want a reward, you want something inexchange. You pray three times or five times a day and you hope in return some entity will give you something from a refrigerator to a car to a better wife or better husband or wait for grace, something that you can hope, cling to. Right? This has been the history of all religion - right? organised. You know the temple near here called Tirupati. I'm sure you go there, it doesn't matter. They make, I believe, a million dollars every third day. Right? Right? No? So, God and money are always together.

因为人，就像你一样，你想要一个奖励，你想要某个不变的东西。 你每天祷告三次或五次，你希望获取回报，某个实体会给你某个东西， 从一个冰箱到一辆汽车，到一个更好的妻子或更好的丈夫，或者等待恩典，某个你期盼的、依赖的东西。 对吗？这就是所有宗教的历史 —— 对吗？ 组织化的。你知道这附近的寺庙叫蒂鲁帕蒂。我相信你去过那里，没关系。 我相信，那里每三天赚一百万美元。对吗？ 对吗？不是？所以，上帝和金钱总在一起。

That's how the Catholic Church was built, tremendous treasures there, extraordinary valuable jewels and all that. So, you too have it here in the various temples and all the puja and worship and all that triviality. All that really nonsense. So, we are trying to find out, enquire very, very deeply what is religion - not obviously all this moneymaking stuff. Right? Do you go along with what I'm saying, even for an hour? But afterwards, you can go back to your temples, to your prayers, to your... - what's it called in Sanskrit, I've forgotten for a moment, it doesn't matter.

天主教堂就是那样建成的，那里有巨大的宝藏、非凡的珍宝等等。 所以，你们这里的各种寺庙里也有，所有的法会和祭拜以及所有那些琐碎。 所有那些都毫无意义！ 所以，我们试图找出，非常非常深入地探究什么是宗教 —— 显然不是指所有这些赚钱的材质。对吗？ 你在听我所讲的话吗？哪怕只是一个小时？ 但之后，你可以回到你的寺庙，回到你的祈祷，回到你的…… —— 梵文叫什么，我突然忘记了，没关系。

So, we are asking what is that which is nameless, which is the supreme intelligence which has no relationship with all ourt prayers, with all our temples, mosques, churches - of course that's all man-made. Right? Right? All the gods, all the temples, mosques and so on. even that, all that is man-made. No? We have built the churches - not you you're all in the offices or somewhere else, but the builders of the ancient monuments, ancient temples, all that! all the rituals, all the strange dresses they put on, medieval dresses, to impress the people.

所以，我们在问，什么是无法称呼的、至高无上的智慧， 也就是完全无关于 我们所有的祈祷、我们所有的寺庙、清真寺、教堂 —— 当然，那些都是人造的。对吗？对吗？ 所有的神、所有的寺庙、清真寺等等。即便是那些，那一切都是人造的。不是？ 我们已经建造了教堂 —— 不是你们 你们都在办公室或其他地方，而是古代遗迹，古老寺庙的建造者们，所有那一切！ 所有的仪式，他们穿戴的一切奇怪的衣服，中世纪的衣服，以便于给人们留下深刻的印象。

But if you brush all that aside, any intelligent man must brush all that aside, the prayers, the worship, the puja, giving garlands to some idol - right? and the priest muttering some Sanskrit words, probably which he doesn't himself understand and probably it's his tradition and thereby he earns a lot of money, and so on. If you can put all that aside. Not become cynical, not become merely sceptical, but a really enquiring brain, right? - enquiring brain. Have you got such a brain?

但是，如果你把所有那扫在一边，任何有智慧的人都必须把所有那些扫在一边， 各种祈祷、崇拜、法会、给某个偶像戴上花环 —— 对吗？ 神父喃喃地说着一些梵语，可能他自己不懂自己在念什么， 可能那是他的传统，因此他赚了很多钱，等等。 如果你能把那些都放在一边。不是变得愤世嫉俗，不是变得疑神疑鬼， 而是一个真正在调查的大脑，对吗？—— 在探索的大脑。你有那样的一个大脑吗？

Enquiring brain, a brain that is active, a brain that enquires into everything, not only outside, which the scientists are doing in their way, the world, the outside world, but have you got a brain that is enquiring into its own thoughts, into its own consciousness, into its own pains, sufferings, all the rest of it. Have we got such a brain? Here, we must separate the brain from the mind. You don't mind? The brain is the centre of all our nerves, all our knowledge, all our theories, opinions, prejudices, college, universities, all that knowledge is gathered in the skull. Right? It is there. All the thoughts, all the fears, and so on.

在探询的大脑，一个活跃的大脑，探究任何一个东西， 不仅仅是在外面，那是科学家们正在上面走的路 —— 这个世界，这个外在的世界。 而且你得有一个大脑，它正在探究它所拥抱的思想，它拥有的意识，它自己的痛苦、苦难和所有其它东西。 我们有这样的大脑吗？ 这里，我们必须将大脑与心灵分开。你不介意吧？ 大脑是我们的神经中枢， 我们所有的知识，我们所有的理论、意见、偏见、学院或大学所积累所有的知识都聚集在头骨中。 对吗？它就在这里。所有这些思想、所有这种恐惧，等等。

Is the brain different from the mind? Don't look at me, I'm asking you a question. If you seriously pay attention to what the speaker asked: is there a difference between the brain - your brain, what is inside the skull - and all the knowledge you have gethered, not only you, but your forefathers and so on, so on for two millennia. It's all encased in there. So that brain will always be limited. Right? Don't agree, sir, this is much too serious.

这个脑袋与这颗心灵不同吗？ 别看我，我在问你问题。 如果你严肃地关注讲话人提出的问题： 在大脑之间是否有一个区别？—— 你的大脑，在颅骨里面 —— 与你收集到的所有知识， 不仅是你，还有你的老祖宗们在持续的两百万年所积累的知识。它们都被包裹在那里。 所以，那个大脑将总是受限制的。对吗？ 不要同意，先生，这太严重了。

And is the mind different from this, from my consciousness, from my daily activity, from my fears, anxieties, uncertainties, sorrow, pain and all the theories which man has gathered about everything - it is there. Right? And the brain - I mean the mind - has no relationship with the brain, but it can communicate to the brain, but the brain cannot communicate with it. Am I making something clear to you? Do you understand my question? Don't agree, please.

这颗心灵是否与此不同，与我的意识不同，与我的日常活动， 与我的恐惧、焦虑、不确定、悲伤、痛苦以及人所收集的一切相关的理论不同？ —— 它就在那里。对吗？ 而这个大脑 —— 我是指这颗心灵 —— 与这个大脑无关， 但它可以与这个大脑交流，而大脑却不能与它交流。 我是否向你澄清了某个东西？你理解我的问题吗？别同意，拜托各位了。

that's the last thing to do, agree with me. The speaker is saying the brain is the keeper of all our consciousness, of our thoughts, of our fears, and so on, and on, and on. All the gods, all the theories about gods and all the unbelievers, it's all there. Nobody can dispute that unless you're a little bit odd. You know the word 'odd'? It's a little bit

那是最后要做的事，同意我的观点。 讲话人说，这个大脑是看护者，保管着我们的意识、我们的思想、我们的恐惧等等一切。 所有的神灵，所有关于有神论和所有无神论的理论，它都在那里。 没有人会对此提出异议，除非你有一点古怪。你知道‘古怪’这个词吗？它有点……

It's all there, but this brain which is conditioned by knowledge, by experience, by tradition, and so on, it cannot have any communication with that thing, with that mind which is totally outside the activity of the brain. I don't know if you will accept this don't bother, just think about it, look at it. But that mind can communicate with the brain, but the brain cannot communicate with that. Because the brain can imagine infinite things, the brain can imagine the nameless; brain can do anything. You understand?

它都在那里，但是这个大脑，被知识，体验，传统等等所限制， 它无法与那个东西，那颗完全在大脑的活动之外的心灵有任何的交流。 我不知道你是否会接受这个， 别担心，只是思考它，看它。 但是那颗心灵可以与这个大脑交流，这个大脑却无法与那交流。 因为这个大脑可以想象无限的东西， 这颗脑袋可以想象那没有名字的东西；这个大脑可以做任何事情。你理解？

And that's too immense because it doesn't belong to you, it's not your mind, your - etc., etc. So, we are going to investigate together, please bear in mind always together, not only the nature of religion, but also enquire into the computer. You know what the computer is? Don't you? Yes. It's a machine. It can programme itself. It can bring about its own computer. The father computer has its own son computer, who is better than the father. You understand all this?

那太浩瀚了，因为它不属于你，它不是你的心灵，你的 —— 等等，等等。 所以，我们要一起调查 —— 请承担：总在一起 —— 不仅调查宗教的本质，还要探究电脑。 你知道电脑是什么吗？不知道吗？是的。 它是一台机器。它可以给它自己编程。它可以带来它自己的电脑。 父亲电脑有它自己的儿子电脑，儿子比父亲更好。 你理解这一切吗？

You don't have to accept this. It's public, it's not something secret, so watch it carefully. That computer can do almost anything that man can do. It can invent all your gods, all your theories, your rituals, even better at it than you will ever be. So, the computer is coming up in the world, not only in the factories, but also it's going to make your brains something different. Which is - you've heard of genetic engineering? Oh god, don't you hear all these things?

你不必接受这一点。它是公开的，它不是什么秘密，所以要仔细观察它。 那台电脑几乎可以做人能做的任何事情。 它可以发明你所有的神灵、你所有的理论、你的仪式，甚至会永远比你更擅长。 所以，这台电脑正在世界上崛起，不仅在工厂里， 而且它会让你的大脑变得不同。 也就是 —— 你听过基因工程吗？ 哦，天啊！你没听过所有这些东西吗？

They're trying to, whether you like it or not, to change your whole behaviour. That is genetic engineering. They are trying to change your way of thinking. You understand what I mean? Oh, don't stare at me, sir. He is laughing. Will you go and sit somewhere else? Will you? Will you go and sit somewhere else? Because you are staring at me all the time. Sit there, sir, would you? Q: It's only my eyes. K: I know, I know. That's good enough. Would you sit there, sir? Good. Thank you.

无论你喜欢与否，他们都试图改变你的整个行为。这就是基因工程。 他们正试图改变你的思考方式。你理解我在说什么吗？ 哦，别盯着我，先生。他在笑。 你会去别的地方坐下吗？你愿意吗？你会去别的地方坐下吗？ 因为你一直在盯着我。坐在那儿，先生，你会吗？ 提问者：那不过是我的眼睛。 克：我知道，我知道。那已经很好了。 先生，你会坐在那里吗？好的。谢谢。

So, genetic engineering and the computer. Right? When the two meet together - they're going to presently in a couple of years - what are you? You understand what I'm asking, sir? What are you as a human being, what are you? Your brains are going to be altered. Your way of behaviour is going to be changed. Right? They may altogether remove fear, remove sorrow, remove all your gods. They're going to, sir, don't fool yourself. Because it all ends up either in war or in death. Right?

所以，基因工程和这台电脑。对吗？ 当两者相遇 —— 它们将在几年内相遇 —— 你是什么东西？ 你理解我在问什么，先生？ 你作为一个人类是什么？你是什么？ 你的大脑将被改换。你的行为方式将被改变。对吗？ 他们可以完全地移除恐惧、移除悲伤、移除你所有的神。 他们正在前进，先生，不要愚弄你自己。 因为，这一切要么以战争结束，要么以死亡告终。对吗？

So, this is what is happening in the world actually. Genetic engineering on the one side and computer on the other and when they meet as they're inevitably going to meet, what is your what are you as a human machine being? Actually, your brain now is a machine. You are born in India and say, "I'm an Indian". You are encased in that. Or you're born in Russia - back again, and so on. You are a machine - please don't be insulted I'm not insulting you - you are a machine who repeats, repeats, or says it is different, you know, machine, like a computer. Right?

所以，这是世界上正在发生的事情。 一边是基因工程，另一边是电脑，当它们相遇时 它们必定相遇，你是什么，作为一个人类机器生物的你，你是什么？ 实际上，现在，你的大脑就是一台机器。 你出生在印度，然后说，“我是印度人”。你被包裹在里面。 或者你在俄罗斯出生 —— 又回去了，等等。 你是一台机器 —— 请不要觉得受到了侮辱 我不是在侮辱你 —— 你是一台正在重复的、不断重复的机器，或者说它是不同的， 你知道，机器，就像一台电脑。对吗？

Don't imagine there is something divine in you - that would be lovely - something holy that is everlasting. The computer will say that to you too. So, what is becoming of a human being? What is becoming of you? And we have also to enquire - this is a very serious subject, don't agree or disagree, just listen, you can't probably you can't take part in it - what is creation? You understand? You understand my question at least - creation. Not the creation of a baby, that's very simple, or the creation of a new something or other. Invention is totally different from creation. Invention is based on knowledge. Right?

不要想象你里面有神圣的东西 —— 那将是可爱的 —— 那永远神圣的某个东西。 这台电脑也会像你那么说。 因此，一个人类正在成为什么样子？你正在成为什么样子？ 我们还必须调查 —— 这是一个非常严肃的主题， 别同意，或者不同意，只是听，你不可能，也许你不能参与进来 —— 什么是创造？你理解？ 你至少理解我的问题 —— 创造。 不是创造一个婴儿，那很简单，或者创造一个新东西或其他东西。 发明是与创造完全不同的东西。 发明基于知识。对吗？

I can improve, the engineers, can improve the jet. The improvement is beased on knowledge and the invention is also based on knowledge. So we must separate invention from creation. Will you? No, no, sir, don't agree. This requires your total energy, your capacity to penetrate, not just say yes, yes. The difference between creation and invention, you understand the difference? Invention is essentially based on knowledge. Right? I improve the clock; I have a new gadget because the old gadgets I have used I have found something new and I invent something else. So all invention is based on knowledge - right? - on experience.

我可以改进，工程师们可以改进喷气式飞机。 改进基于知识，发明也基于知识。 因此，我们必须将发明与创造分开。 你愿意吗？不，不，先生，不要同意。 这需要用你的全部能量、你的能力去渗透，而不仅仅是说‘是的’、‘是的’。 创造和发明的区别，你理解这个区别吗？ 在本质上，发明是基于知识的。对吗？ 我改进一只手表；我就有一个新东西 因为利用旧的东西，我发现了某些新的，我就发明出了另外的东西。 因此，所有的发明都是基于知识 —— 对吧？—— 基于经验。

Inventions are inevitably limited, because they are based on knowledge. Oh, god's sake, somebody wake up. So, knowledge being ever limited, inventions must always be limited. In the future they may have no jets, but something else, and that will go from Delhi to Los Angeles in two hours. That's an invention based on previous knowledge, which has been improved step by step by step, but that's not creation. Right? I get rather fed up looking at those faces, which say nothing.

发明不可避免地受到限制，因为它们基于知识。 哦，看在上帝的份上，快醒醒吧。 因此，知识是有限的，发明也永远注定是受限的。 在将来，他们可能没有喷气式飞机，但有别的东西，从德里到洛杉矶将会在两小时内到达。 那是一个发明，基于以前的知识， 通过一步一步地改进而产生的东西，但那不是创造。对吗？ 看着那些什么也不表露的脸，我真想呕吐。

So what is creation? So what is life? You understand? Life in the tree, life in the little grass, life in the scientist - life, not what they invent, what they do, but the beginning of life. I don't know if you understand. Life, the thing that lives. You may kill it, but it's still there in the other. So, we're asking, don't agree or disagree, don't nod your head, but see we are enquiring into what is the origin of life. C'est d'accord? Vous etes comme moi? I am sorry, I will stop.

因此，什么是创造？什么是生命？你理解？ 在这棵树里的生命，小草的生命，科学家的生命 —— 生命，不是他们所发明的东西，他们所做的事，而是生命的开始。 我不知道你是否理解。生命，那活着的东西。 你可能会杀死它，但它仍然在另一个里面。 所以，我们在问，不要同意或不同意，别点头， 而是看：我们正在调查生命的起源是什么。 C'est d'accord? Vous etes comme moi?(法语:这些是法语吗？你和我一样吗？) 对不起，我会停下。

So, we are going to enquire into the absolute, something that is really marvellous. Not a reward. You can't take it home and say, "I will use it". What is meditation to you? Would you kindly tell me. What is meditation to you? You meditate, some of you, don't you? No? Oh, god, what? Some of you do, don't you? What is meditation? The word, it's common language in the dictionary means "to ponder over, to think over" and "to concentrate", to learn to concentrate on something, not let your brain wander all over the place. Right? Right? Is that what you call meditation? Be simple, sir, be honest. That is what? Giving every day a certain period and you go to a room quietly, site down for ten minutes, quarter of an hour, meditate. Right?

所以，我们将探究那绝对的，某些非常奇妙的东西。不是一个奖励。 你不能把它带回家，说，“我会使用它”。对你来说，什么是冥想？ 你可以友好地告诉我，对你来说，什么是冥想吗？ 你们在冥想，你们中的某些人，不是吗？没有？哦，天啊，什么？ 你们中的一些人在做，没有吗？什么是冥想？ 这个词，在字典里是常用语，意思是‘沉思，思考’和‘集中注意力’， 学会专心于某个东西上，而不是让你的大脑到处游荡。 对吗？对吗？那就是你所说的冥想吗？ 简单点，先生，要诚实。那是什么？ 每天抽出一段时间，你悄悄地去一个房间， 坐下来，十分钟，一刻钟，冥想。对吗？

Right? Do you agree with that, sir? No? Then what is meditation to you? concentration? Thinking about something very noble? You can't answer all these questions. So, we are going to first enquire what is meditation.

对吗？你同意那种说法吗？先生，不同意？ 那么对你来说，什么是冥想？集中注意力？ 想某些非常高贵的东西？您无法回答所有这些问题。 所以，我们首先要探究什么是冥想。

Any conscious effort to meditate is part of your discipline, of the office. Because you say, "If I meditate, I will have a quiet mind, or I will enter into another state" And so on and so on. The word 'meditation' also means 'to measure' - right, sir? - to measure, which means compare. Oh, lord. So, your meditation becomes mechanical - right? Because you are exercising energy to concentrate on a picture, an image, or an idea, and that concentration divides. Right? You understand what I mean?

在冥想中，任何有意识的努力都是你的一部分训练，是办公室的一部分。 因为你说，“如果我冥想，我会有一个安静的头脑，或者我会进入另一个状态”等等。 ‘冥想’这个词也意味着‘衡量’ —— 对吗，先生？ —— 衡量，也就意味着比较。噢，我的主！ 所以，你的冥想变成了机械性的 —— 对吗？ 因为你正在训练能量去专注于一张图片、一幅画像或一个想法，那个专注在挥舞。 对吗？你理解我的意思吗？

concentration is always division. No? I want to concentrate on that, but thought wanders off. Then I say, "I mustn't wander off, come back". You repeat that all day long, or half an hour. And then you come off it and say, "Well I've meditated". And this meditation is advocated by all the gurus, by all the - you know lay disciples, and so on, so on. And the Christian idea is, "I believe in God and I am sacrificing myself to God". You understand what I'm saying? And, therefore, I pray to save me, to save my soul, save my etc., etc. Is all this meditation?

专注总是在切割。没有？ 我想专注于此，但思想却飘走了。然后我说，“我一定不能飘，回来！”。 你整天重复那些，或者半个小时。 然后你离开它，说，“好了，我已经冥想过了”。 这种冥想是所有的上师，所有那些 —— 你知道 外面的弟子等人们所倡导的。 基督教的观点是，“我相信上帝，我把自己献给上帝”。 你理解我在说什么吗？ 因此，我祈祷：救救我吧、拯救我的灵魂、救救我的……等等。这一切是冥想吗？

Tell me, I know nothing about meditation, at least not this kind. Will you tell me? Is this meditation? Tell me, sir, don't be frightened. I'm not your guru, or your boss, or... Tell me if this is meditation. It's like an achievement. Right? It's achievement. I meditate for half an hour, by Jove, I feel bright. Or is there a totally different kind of meditation? Right, sir? Totally different.

告诉我，我对冥想一无所有，至少不是这种类型的。 你会告诉我吗？这是冥想吗？ 告诉我，先生，别害怕。我不是你的上师，也不是你的老板，也不是…… 告诉我这是不是冥想。它就像一种成就。对吗？它是成就。 我冥想了半个小时，啊！我感觉明朗。 或者，有一种完全不同的冥想？对吗，先生？完全地不同。

I'm asking you, but since you won't answer, I must answer. In the word 'meditation' which is measurement, as I said, which is comparison of achievement, that's not meditation. I say don't accept anything the speaker says, at any price. The speaker says that is not meditation at all. That's merely a process of achievement. Right? You have been one day not able to concentrate, you take a month and say, "Yes, I've got it". That's like a clerk becoming a manager. Right? So is there a different kind of meditation, which is not effort, which is not measurement, which is not routine - please pay attention to what I am saying - which is not mechanical? Is there a meditation in which there is no sense of comparison? Or there is no reward and punishment. You understand all this?

我正在问你，但既然你不愿意回答，我必须回答。 ‘冥想’这个词，是衡量，正如我所说，是成就的比较，那不是冥想。 讲话者说，不接受讲话人说的任何话，不惜任何代价！ 讲话人说，那根本不是冥想。那只是一个获取成就的过程。对吗？ 某一天，你无法集中注意力，你花费了一个月的时间，说，“是的，我得到了它”。 那就像一个员工成为一名经理。对吗？ 那么，有没有一种不同的冥想，其中没有努力，没有衡量，没有成规 —— 请注意我在说的话 —— 也就是非机械性的？ 有没有一种冥想，其中没有比较感？ 或者说，其中没有奖赏和惩罚。你理解这一切吗？

So is there any meditation which is not based on thought, which is measurement, time, and all that? You understand my question? How can one explain a meditation that has no measurement, that has no achievement, that doesn't say, I will be that, I am this, but I will become that. 'That' being God or super-angel. So that requires - if I may point out not for you to accept or deny, just pointing out - is there a meditation which has nothing to do with will, with our energy that says, I must meditate, which has nothing to do with effort at all?

那么，有没有一种冥想不是基于思想，也就是衡量、时间，以及所有那些东西？ 你理解我的问题吗？ 一个人怎么能解释那种冥想，那没有衡量标准，没有成就， 那不会说，‘我会那’，‘我是这，但我会成为那’的冥想？ ‘那’是指上帝或超级天使。因此，那需要调查 —— 如果我可以指出，不是让你接受或拒绝，只是指出 —— 有没有这么一种冥想： 它无关于意志，无关于我们的那个能量 —— 那个说‘我必须冥想’的能量， 无关于任何的努力？

The speaker says there is. You don't have to accept it. He may be nuts. He may be talking nonsense, but he sees logically the ordinary meditation is self-hypnosis, deceiving oneself and when you stop deceiving, stop all that mechanical process, is there a different kind of meditation? And there, fortunately, the speaker says yes. That is not for you to say, "Yes, I agree, I'll meditate". You can't get at it through effort, through giving all your energy to something. You can't, there is no - you understand?

讲话人说有。你不必接受它。 他可能疯了。他可能在胡说八道， 但他从逻辑上看到：普通的冥想是自我催眠、自我欺骗， 当你停止欺骗，停止所有的机械性的过程，有一种不同的冥想吗？ 在这里，很幸运，讲话人说‘有’。 你不能说，“是的，我同意，我会去冥想”。 你不能通过努力，通过把你所有的能量都投入到某个东西上来获得它。 你不能，无法 —— 你理解吗？

It is something that has to be absolutely silent. Don't achieve silence now. Don't sit in meditation. Please don't do it, sir. You can't do it. First of all, begin very humbly, very, very humbly and therefore very gently and therefore no pushing, driving, say, "I must do this". It requires a tremendous sense of not only aloneness, but a sense of - I mustn't describt it. because then you will go off on descriptions. If I describe it, the description is not the real. Right?

它是某个东西，必须有绝对地安静。现在别去捕获安静。不要坐着冥想。 请不要做它，先生。你做不到它。 首先，非常谦卑，从非常非常地谦卑开始，因此非常温柔， 因此没有推挤、驱使，说，“我必须做这个”。 它需要一种巨大的感觉，不止是独立， 还有一种感觉 —— 我绝不能描述它。 因为那样你就会走偏，会去抓那个描述。 如果我描述它，那个描述就不是这个真实。对吗？

The description of the moon, or the Himalayas paintsed description, is not the Himalayas. Right? So, we will stop describing. It's for you to play with it, or not play with it going your own way and your own peculiar achievements through meditation and so on, reward and all the rest of it. So, a meditation which is absolutely no effort, no achievement, no thinking, then the brain is quiet. You understand? Not made quiet by will, by intention, by conclusion and all that nonsense; it is quiet!

对月亮的描述，或喜马拉雅山的描绘，不是喜马拉雅山。对吗？ 因此，我们将停止描述。 它是留给你们玩的，或者，别去碰它，继续你自己的路， 通过冥想或其它途径，去捕获你所拥有的特殊成就、奖励和所有其余的东西。 因此，一个冥想，其中没有丝毫的努力、成就、思想运动， 那么，这个大脑安静了。你理解？ 不是被意志、意图、结论和所有那些胡扯制造出来的安静；它就是安静！

And being quiet, it has infinite space. Are you waiting for me to explore and you swallow what I explore? God, what kind of people are you? So, is your brain ever quiet? I'm asking you. Your brain: thinking, fearing, your office work, your thinking of your family, what they will do and your sons, your daughters - thinking which is time and thought. Is your brain ever quiet? Would you kindly tell me? K: what, sir? Don't be nervous, sir. Say what you want to say and if you can't say it forget it. Is your brain ever quiet?

安静中，它有无限的空。 你在等着我去开发，你在吞下我开发出来的东西吗？ 天啊！你们是哪种人？ 那么，你的大脑安静过吗？我在问你。 你的大脑：思考、恐慌、你的工作、你对你的家庭的思考， 他们会做什么，你的儿子，你的女儿 —— 思考就是时间和思想。 你的大脑可曾安静？你能友好地告诉我吗？ 什么，先生？不要紧张，先生。说出你想说的话，如果你不说，那就算了。 你的大脑安静过吗？

Not made quiet by drugs and by all kinds of inducement, whisky or various forms of drugging yourself. You drug yourself when you believe. You drug yourself and say, "Yes, this is perfectly right, the Buddha said that, therefore it must be right". You're drugging yourself all the time, therefore you have no energy of that kind, that demands into the penetration of something immense.

不是被毒品和各种沉迷、威士忌或各种形式的下毒而变得安静。 当你相信的时候，你就在给你自己下毒。你给你自己下毒，并说： “是的，这是完全正确的，佛陀说过那，因此它一定是对的。” 你一直在给你自己下毒，因此，你没有那种能量， 那种要求刺入某个巨大的东西。

So, we're going now back to find out what is creation. You understand? What is creation? Because it has nothing to do with invention. That's gone. So what is the creation, the origin, the beginning? What is life? Tell me, sirs, what you think of it. Tell me. What is life? Not going to the office and all the rest of it, sex and children, or no children but sex and so on, so on, so on. What is life? What gives life to that blade of grass in the cement? You understand? What is life in us? Not all the things that we go through: power, position, prestige, fame, or no fame but shame. So, that's not life, that's part of our mishandling of life. But what is life? You understand my question? You understand, sir? Why are you listening to me? What makes you, if you are listening at all, listen to the man?

所以，我们现在回过头来看，什么是创造。 你理解？什么是创造？ 因为它无关于发明。让那离开吧。 那么，什么是创造、起源和开始？什么是生命？ 告诉我，先生，您对它的想法。告诉我，生命是什么？ 不是去办公室和其它一切，性爱和孩子们， 或只是性交而不要孩子，等等，等等。 生命是什么？是什么赋予水泥中那片草叶的生命？你理解？ 我们的生命是什么？不是我们经历过的一切东西： 权力、地位、声誉、名望、或者没名望却有羞辱。 因此，那不是生命，那是我们在生命中乱搞出来的部分。 但是，什么是生命？你理解我的问题吗？理解吗，先生？ 你为什么要听我讲话？ 是什么让您，如果您还在听，是什么东西让您来听这个人讲话？

What is the motive behind your listening? What do you want? What's your desire? Behind the desire there is a motive. Right? So, what is desire? First, carefully let's quickly examine it. Desire is part of sensation, isn't it? I see this beautiful clock or ugly clock; it's a sensation. The seeing brings about a sensation. Right? Oh, this is normal, sir, don't... From that sensation thought comes and makes an image of it. That is, I see this clock, rather nice, I would like to have it. The sensation of seeing, then thought coming and making an image of that sensation at that moment, desire is born. It's very simple. Right?

是什么动机使你过来听讲？你想要什么？你的欲望是什么？ 欲望的背后有一个动机。对吗？那么，什么是欲望? 首先，让我们仔细地快速检查它。欲望是感觉的一部分，它不是吗? 我看到这个漂亮的表或者丑陋的表；它是一个感觉。 我这一看的动作，带来一种感觉。对吗? 哦，这很正常，先生，不要…… 从那种感觉中，思想冒出来了，并制造出关于它的一幅画面。 那就是，我看到这个表，很漂亮，我想要拥有它。 那种看的感觉，然后思想出现，并对那种感觉加工，形成一幅画面。 在那一刻，欲望诞生了。它非常简单。对吗？

So, is there a brain, your brain, which is not muddled up, muddied by environment, by tradition, by society and all the rest of it? So, what is the origin of life? Are you waiting for me to answer it? You are waiting for the speaker to answer that question? Are you? Would you kindly tell me yes or no. I'll wait. If you tell me, then I'll go on.

那么，有没有一个大脑，你的大脑， 没被搞乱，被环境、传统、社会和其余的一切东西弄得一团糟？ 那么，生命的起源是什么？你在等我回答它吗？ 你在等待讲话人回答那个问题吗？你是吗？ 如果你不告诉我，‘是’或‘不是’。我会等。 如果你告诉我，那么我就继续。

This is much too a serious subject for you to play with, because we are trying to enter, enquire into something that has no name, no end. I can kill that bird, there is another bird. I can't kill all birds, there are too many of them in the world. So, we are enquiring into what makes a bird, what is creation behind all this? Right?

你所把玩的这，是一个太严肃的主题， 因为我们正试图进入，调查某个没有名字、没有尽头的东西。 我可以杀了那只鸟，还有另一只鸟。 我不能杀死所有的鸟，世界上有太多的鸟。 所以，我们正在探究是什么创作了一只鸟，这一切，这背后的创造是什么？对吗？

Are you waiting for me to describe it, go into it? right? Yes, sir? You want me to go into it? Why? Q: To understand. K: What do you understand? Through your brain? what? what is? K: Why do you ask that? Because I asked? You see again, you're - sorry, sir. No description fits, can ever describe the origin. The origin is nameless, the origin is absolutely quiet, it's not whirring about making noise.

你在等我描述它，进入它吗？对吗？ 是吗，先生？你想让我进去吗？为什么？ 问：去理解。 克：你要理解什么？通过你的大脑？什么？它是什么？ 克：你为什么这么问？因为我在问吗？你再看看，你是 —— 对不起，先生。 没有描述适合它，永远不能描述这个起源。 这个起源是无名的，这个起源是绝对地安静，它没有颤动，没有制造噪音。

Creation is something that is most holy, that's the most sacred thing in life and if you have made a mess of your life, change it! Change it today, not tomorrow. If you are uncertain, find out why and be certain. If your thinking is not straight, think straightly, logically.

创造是某个那最神圣的东西，那是生命中最神圣的东西， 如果你已经使你的生命一团糟，改变它！ 今天就改变它，而不是明天。 如果您不确定，请找出为什么，并确定。 如果你的思考不整齐，那就直截了当地、合乎逻辑地思考。

Unless all that is prepared, all that is settled, you can't enter into this world, into the world of creation. It ends. This is the last talk. Do you want to sit together quietly for a while? All right sirs, sit quietly for a while. May we get up and go on?

除非那一切都准备好了，所有的东西都安顿好了， 否则你无法进入这个世界，进入创造的世界。它结束了。 这是最后一次讲话。 你想安静地坐在一起一会儿吗？ 好的，先生们，安静地坐一会儿。 我们可以起身，继续吗？