THIS END OF the valley, particularly on this lovely quiet morning, was peaceful, there was no sound of traffic. The hills were behind you and the tallest mountain in this region was over 6,000 feet. This house is surrounded by orchards, bright yellow oranges, and the sky was blue without a single cloud. You could hear the murmur of bees among the flowers in the still quiet morning. The old oak tree [the Californian evergreen holm oak] behind the house was a great age; the strong winds had broken many dead branches. It has survived many storms, many summers of great heat and the cold winters. Probably it could tell you a lot of stories but this morning it was very quiet, there was no breeze. Everything around you was full of green and bright oranges, yellow and shining, and perfume filled the air - the perfume of jasmine.
山谷的这一端，特别是在这个可爱安静的早晨，是平和的，没有交通的声音。 山丘在你身后，这个地区最高的山峰超过6000英尺。 这所房子四周环绕着果园，明亮的橙黄色，天是蓝的，没有一朵云。 在依然安静的早晨，你可以听到蜜蜂在花丛中的低吟。 房子后面的老橡树[加州常绿圣栎] 非常的古老；强风折断了许多枯枝。 它经历了许多风暴，许多炎热的夏天和寒冷的冬天。 也许它可以告诉你很多故事，但今天早上它非常安静，没有一丝微风。 你周围的一切都充满了绿色和亮橙色，黄色和闪亮，香气弥漫在空中 —— 茉莉花的香味。
This valley is far from all the noise and the bustle of human traffic, of humanity, of all the ugly things that are going on in the world. The orange trees were just beginning to show their fresh young flowers. The scent of it would fill the valley in a week or two and there would be the hum of thousands of bees. It was a peaceful morning and beyond all this lay the sick world, a world that is becoming more and more dangerous, more and more corrupt, vastly dull in search of entertainment, religious and otherwise. The superficiality of existence is thriving. Money seems to be the greatest value in life, and with it naturally goes power, position and the sorrow of it all.
这个山谷远离了人类交通的所有噪音和喧嚣， 远离了人类，远离了世界上所有丑陋的事物。 橘子树刚开始展示它们鲜嫩的花朵。 它的气味会在一两个星期内充满山谷，会有成千上万只蜜蜂的嗡嗡声。 它是一个平和的早晨，在这一切的外面，躺着这个病态的世界， 一个越来越危险、越来越腐败、追逐着宗教和其他娱乐活动的极其沉闷的世界。 现存的肤浅，正在蓬勃生长。 金钱似乎成为生命中最大的价值，自然而来的是权力、地位和其中所有的悲伤。
`On such a beautiful morning I want to talk over with you a rather sad subject, frightening, the sense of apprehension that pervades humanity and myself. I would really like to understand, not merely intellectually or descriptively, why, with so many others, I dread the ending of life.
`在这样一个美丽的早晨，我想和你谈谈一个相当悲伤的主题， 那个令人可怕的、遍布于人类和我自己的忧惧感。 我真的很想理解，不仅仅是在智力上或解释上，我和那么多的人，为什么都害怕生命的终结。
`We kill so easily - it is called blood sport, shooting birds for amusement to show off one's skill, chasing the fox, killing by the million the things of the sea; death seems to be everywhere. Sitting on this quiet veranda, looking at those bright yellow oranges, it is difficult - or rather it seems so unseemly - to talk over something that is so frightening. Man throughout all the ages has never really solved or understood the thing called death.
`我们轻易地杀戮 —— 这被称为血腥运动， 为了娱乐而射击鸟类，以炫耀一个人的技能，追捕狐狸，杀死数百万的海洋生物； 死亡似乎无处不在。 坐在这个安静的阳台上，看着那些亮澄澄的橙子， 难以开口 —— 或者更确切地说，似乎如此不合时宜 —— 去谈论那些如此恐怖的事情。 古往今来，人从未真正解决或理解这个被称之为‘死亡’的东西。
`Naturally I have studied various religious and scientific rationalizations, beliefs, and they assume realities; some of them are logical, comforting, but the fact remains that there is always the fear of the unknown.
`自然地，我研究了各种宗教和科学上的合理化解释和信仰，它们假定了现实； 它们中一些是合乎逻辑的、令人欣慰的，但这个事实：对未知的恐惧，依然一直存在。
`I was discussing this fact with a friend of mine whose wife has recently died. He was a rather lonely man and he was inclined not only to live in his memories but also to find out for himself through seances, mediums and all that whether his wife, whom he really loved, had just evaporated into thin air, or was there still a continuity of her in another dimension, in another world than this?
`我和我的一个朋友讨论这个事实，他的妻子最近去世了。 他是一个相当孤独的人，他不仅倾向于活在他的记忆中， 而且还倾向于通过降神会，巫师和所有那些事情去找出： 他挚爱的妻子是否在空中蒸发了， 或者她是否仍然在另一个维度、另一个世界延续着？
`He said, "Strangely enough I found that at one of these seances the medium mentioned my name and said that she had a message from my wife. And the message was something only known to her and me. Of course the medium may have read my thoughts or my wife may exist. That thought was in the air, the thought of that secret which was between us. I have asked many people of their experiences. It all seems so vain and rather stupid, including the message from my wife which was so trivial, so deeply meaningless." I don't want to discuss with you whether there is an entity of a person which continues after death. That is not my interest. Some say there is a continuity, others say there is total annihilation. This contradiction - annihilation, total ending of a person or the continuity of that individual - has been in all literature, from the ancients to the present day. But to me, all this is beside the point. Its validity is still in the realm of speculation, superstition, belief and the desire for comfort, hope. I am really not concerned with all that. I really mean this. I am at least quite certain of that. But I would like to have a dialogue with you, if I may, about what is the meaning of it all - this whole business of living and dying. Is it all utterly meaningless, vague, without any depth, without any significance whatsoever? Millions have died and millions will be born and continue and die. I am one of those. I always ask myself: what is the meaning of living and dying? The earth is beautiful, I have travelled a great deal, talked to many people who are supposed to be wise and learned, but they too die.
`他说， “奇怪的是，我发现在其中一次降神会上，巫师提到了我的名字，并说她收到了我妻子的信息。 这个信息只有她和我都知道。 当然，巫师可能已经读懂了我的想法，或者我的妻子可能存在。 那个想法在空中，那个秘密的想法就在我们之间。 我问过很多人他们的经历。 这一切似乎都是如此徒劳和愚蠢，包括我妻子的信息，它是如此地微不足道、毫无意义。 我不想和你讨论一个人死后是否继续存在一个实体。 这不是我的兴趣所在。有人说有连续性，有人说有完全的毁灭。 这种矛盾 —— 毁灭并完全终结、或被延续 —— 从古到今，一直存在于所有文献中。 但对我来说，所有这些都是无关紧要的。 它的有效性仍然在猜测、迷信、信仰和对舒适，对期盼的欲望的领域内。 我真的不关心这一切。我是认真的。我至少非常肯定这一点。 但是，如果可以的话， 我想和你们谈谈这一切的意义是什么 —— 这生生死死的整个事物。 难道这一切都是完全没有意义的、模糊的、没有任何深度、没有任何意义的吗？ 数以百万计的人已经死亡，数百万人将出生、延续和死亡。我就是其中之一。 我总是问我自己：生与死的意义是什么？ 地球是美丽的，我去过很多地方，与许多被称之为有智慧和学问的人交谈过，但他们也死了。
`I have come a long way so perhaps you would be good enough to take time and have the quiet patience to talk over this subject with me.'
`我已经走了很长一段路，所以也许你会花点时间， 有相当的耐心，和我谈论这个主题。'
`Doubt is a precious thing. It cleanses, purifies the mind. The very questioning, the very fact that the seed of doubt is in one, helps to clarify our investigation. Not only doubting what all the others have said, including the whole concept of regeneration, and the Christian belief and dogma of resurrection, but also the Asiatic world's acceptance that there is continuity. In doubting, questioning all that, there is a certain freedom which is necessary for our enquiry. If one can put all that aside, actually, not merely verbally but negate all that deep within oneself, then one has no illusion. And it is necessary to be totally free from any kind of illusion - the illusions that are imposed upon us and the illusions that we create for ourselves. All illusions are the things that we play with, and if one is serious then they have no place whatsoever, nor does faith come into all this.
`怀疑是一件珍贵的东西。它清洁、净化这颗头脑。 质疑本身，这个行为所蕴含的 ‘怀疑’ 的种子，有助于澄清我们的调查。 不仅怀疑其他人所说的话，包括整个重生的概念， 以及基督教信仰和复活的教条，还包括整个亚洲所接受的连续性。 在怀疑，质疑哪一切时，就有一定的自由 —— 对于我们的调查来说，这是必要的。 如果一个人能够把所有那些真正地放在一边， 不是口头上地，而是否定一个人内心深处的那一切，那么一个人没有了幻觉。 必需完全地摆脱任何一种幻觉 —— 那些强加给我们的幻觉和我们为自己创造的幻觉。 所有的幻觉都是我们的玩物， 如果一个人较真，那么它们就没有任何一个地方可摆放，信仰也不会进入这一切。
`So having set aside all that, not for the moment but seeing the falseness of all that, the mind is not caught in the falsehood that man has invented about death, about god, about all the rituals that thought has created. There must be freedom of opinion and judgement, for then only can one deliberately, actually, hesitantly explore into the meaning of daily living and dying - existence and the end of existence. If one is prepared for this, or if one is willing, or even better if one is actually, deeply concerned to find out the truth of the matter (living and dying is a very complex problem, an issue that requires a very careful examination) where should we begin? With life or with death? With living or with the ending of that which we call living?'
`因此，抛开那一切，不是暂时的，而是看到那一切的虚假， 这颗头脑就不会陷入人发明的关于死亡、上帝、一切仪式，那些由思想所创造的虚假之中。 必须摆脱观点和判断， 因为只有这样，一个人才能审慎地、真实地、犹豫地探索日常生活和死亡的意义 —— 存在和存在的终结。 如果一个人做好了这些准备，或者一个人愿意， 或者如果一个人真的非常关心找出这件事情的真相 （生与死是一个非常复杂的问题，一个需要非常仔细检查的事情）， 我们应该从哪里开始？从生命还是从死亡？ 从生活，还是从结束我们称之为‘生活’的东西？'
`I am over fifty, and have lived rather extravagantly, keeping an interest in many, many things. I think I would like to begin - I am rather hesitant, I am rather doubtful where I should begin.'
`我已经五十多岁了，生活相当奢侈，对很多很多东西都保持着兴趣。 我想我会开始于 —— 我相当犹豫，我很怀疑我应该从哪里开始。'
`I think we ought to begin with the beginning of existence, man's existence, with one's existence as a human being.'
`我想我们应该从存在的起源开始，人的存在，一个人作为一个人类而存在。
`I was born into a fairly well-to-do family, carefully educated and brought up. I have been in several businesses and I have sufficient money; I am a single man now. I have been married, had two children, who all died in a car accident. And I have never married again. I think I should like to begin with my childhood. From the beginning, like every other child in the world, poor or rich, there was a well developed psyche, the self-centred activity. It is strange, as you look back upon it, that it begins from very early childhood, that possessive continuity of me as J. Smith. He went through school, expanding, aggressive, arrogant, bored, then into college and university. And as my father was in a good business I went into his Company. I reached the top, and on the death of my wife and children, I began this enquiry. As happens to all human beings, it was a shock, a pain - the loss of the three, the memories associated with them. And when the shock of it was over I began to enquire, to read, to ask, to travel in different parts of the world, talking the matter over with some of the so-called spiritual leaders, the gurus. I read a great deal but I was never satisfied. So I think we ought to begin, if I may suggest, with the actual living - the daily building up of my cultivated, circumscribed mind. And I am that. You see, my life has been that. My life is nothing exceptional. Probably I would be considered upper middle class, and for a time it was pleasurable, exciting, and at other times dull, weary, and monotonous. But the death of my wife and children somehow pulled me out of that. I haven't become morbid but I want to know the truth of it all, if there is such a thing as truth about living and dying.'
`我出生在一个相当富裕的家庭，被细心教育和成长。 我从事于几种生意，我有足够的钱；我现在单身。 我结过婚，有两个孩子，他们都死于车祸。我再也没有结婚过。 我想我应该从我的童年开始。 从一开始，就像世界上其他所有的孩子一样，无论贫富， 都有一个发展得好的心灵，这个以自我为中心的活动。 奇怪的是，当你回望看它的时候， 那个被延续下来的，被称之为‘史密斯’的‘我’，从很小的时候就出现了。 他历经了学校，扩张，侵略性，傲慢，无聊，然后进入学院和大学。 由于我父亲生意兴隆，我进入了他的公司。 我到达这个顶峰，在我妻子和孩子去世后，我开始了这个调查。 就像发生在所有人类身上一样，它是一种震惊，一种痛苦 —— 失去他们三人，与他们相关的记忆。 当这种震惊结束后，我开始调查、阅读、询问，在世界不同的地方旅行， 与一些所谓的精神领袖，大师们谈论这件事。 我读了很多书，但我从没有得到满意。 因此，我认为，如果我可以建议的话，我们应该从实际的生活开始 —— 那个通过每天的生活而建立的，我所培养出来的，受到限制的头脑。我就是那样。 你看，我的生命就是那样。我的生命没什么特别。 也许我会被认为是上层中产阶级， 有时，它是令人愉快的、使人兴奋的；而其它时候，它却是沉闷的、疲惫的和单调的。 但是我妻子和孩子的死亡，不知何故，把我从中拉了出来。 我没有变得病态，但我想知道这一切的真相，如果存在关于生与死的真相。
`How is the psyche, the ego, the self, the I, the person, put together? How has this thing come into being, from which arises the concept of the individual, the "me", separate from all others? How is this momentum set going - this momentum, this sense of the I, the self? We will use the word "self" to include the person, the name, the form, the characteristics, the ego. How is this self born? Does the self come into being with certain characteristics transmitted from the parents? Is the self merely a series of reactions? Is the self merely the continuity of centuries of tradition? Is the self put together by circumstances, through accidents, happenings? Is the self the result of evolution - evolution being the gradual process of time, emphasizing, giving importance to the self? Or, as some maintain, especially the religious world, does the outward shell of the self really contain within itself the soul and the ancient concept of the Hindus, of the Buddhists? Does the self come into being through the society which man has created, which gives strength to the formula that you are separate from the rest of humanity? All these have certain truths in them, certain facts, and all these constitute the self. And the self has been given tremendous importance in this world. The expression of the self in the democratic world is called freedom, and in the totalitarian world, that freedom is suppressed, denied and punished. So would you say that instinct begins in the child with the urge to possess? This also exists in the animals, so perhaps we have derived from the animals this instinct to possess. Where there is any kind of possession there must be the beginning of the self. And from this instinct, this reaction, the self gradually increases in strength, in vitality, and becomes well-established. The possession of a house, the possession of land, the possession of knowledge, the possession of certain capacities - all this is the movement of the self. And this movement gives the feeling of separateness as the individual.
`这个心灵、自我意识、自我、我，这个人是怎么形成的？ 这个东西是如何出现的？这种被称之为‘个人’、这个与其它一切分离的‘我’的概念，是从哪里冒出来的？ 这种趋势，这种 ‘我的感觉’，这种自我 —— 这种趋势是如何发生的？ 我们将使用‘我’这个词来包括这个人和这个人的名字、形式、特征和自我。 这个我是如何诞生的？ 这个我是否具有从父母那里传递出的某些特征？ 这个我只是一系列的反应吗？ 这个我仅仅是近几个世纪以来的传统的延续吗？ 这个我是由周围的环境、事故、所发生的事情所造成的吗？ 这个我是进化的结果吗？ —— 这种在时间长河中的渐进过程，强调，并赋予这个我的重要性。 或者，正如某些人所坚持的那样，特别是在宗教界， 这个我的外壳是否真的包含了灵魂和印度教徒、佛教徒所说的古老的概念？ 这个我之所以产生，是因为人类所创造的那个社会 —— 那个社会强化了这条规则：你与其余的人类是分开的？ 所有这些里面，都有一定的真实性，这些事实，所有的这些都构成了这个我。 在这个世界上，这个‘我’被赋予了极大的重要性。 在民主世界中，展现这个我，被称之为自由， 而在极权主义世界中，这种自由被压制、拒绝并惩罚。 所以你会说：那种本能始于小时候的那种占据的冲动吗？ 动物也有这种本能，所以，也许我们从动物身上获得了这种占据的本能。 任何形式的占据，都必定伴随着‘我’的萌发。 从这种本能、这种反应中，这个‘我’逐渐增强了它的力量和活力，并变得壮大。 占据一所房子，占据土地，占据知识，占据某些能力 —— 所有这些都是这个‘我’的运动。 这种运动带来了一种作为个人的分离感。
`Now you can go much further into details: is the you, the self, separate from the rest of mankind? Are you, because you have a separate name, a separate physical organism, certain tendencies different from another's, perhaps a talent - does that make you an individual? This idea that each one of us throughout the world is separate from another, is that an actuality? Or may the whole concept be illusory just as we have divided the world into separate communities, nations, which is really a glorified form of tribalism? This concern with oneself and the community being different from other communities, other selves - is that in actuality real? Of course you may say it is real because you are an American, and others are French, Russian, Indian, Chinese and so on. This linguistic, cultural, religious difference has brought about havoc in the world - terrible wars, incalculable harm. And also, of course, in certain aspects there is great beauty in it, in the expression of certain talents, as a painter, as a musician, as a scientist and so on. Would you consider yourself as a separate individual with a separate brain which is yours and nobody else's? It is your thinking, and your thinking is supposedly different from another's. But is thinking individual at all? Or is there only thinking, which is shared by all humanity, whether you are the most scientifically talented person or the most ignorant, primitive?
`现在你可以走进细节：这个‘你’，这个‘我’，与其余的人类是分离的吗？ 你是吗，因为你有一个分离的名字，一个分离的生理有机体， 某些不同于别人的倾向，也许是一种天赋 —— 那些是否使你成为一个私人？ 这种观念：在整个世界上，我们每个人都是与别人分开的 —— 那是一种真实吗？ 或者，整个概念可能是虚幻的 就像我们将世界划分为独立的社区、国家一样，而实际上是一种美化的部落主义形式？ 关心‘我’和这个社区，并忽略别的社区和其余的‘我’ —— 那是真实的吗？ 当然，你可能会说这是真的，因为你是美国人，别人是法国人、俄罗斯人、印度人、中国人等等。 这种语言、文化和宗教上的差异，给世界带来了严重的惊恐 —— 可怕的战争，数不清的伤害。 当然，在某些方面，它有很大的美， 在某些天赋的表达中，作为一名画家，作为一名音乐家，作为一名科学家等等。 你以为你自己是一个分离的个人，有一个属于你的，而不属于别人的大脑吗？ 它是你的思想，你的思想被认为与别人的不同。 但是，思想属于个人吗？ 还是只存在思想，是被全人类所共享的， 不管你是最有科学天赋的人，还是最无知、最原始的人？
`All these questions and more arise when we are considering the death of a human being. So would you, looking at all this - the reactions, the name, the form, the possessiveness, the impulse to be separate from another, sustained by society and by religion - would you in examining all this logically, sanely, reasonably, consider yourself to be an individual? This is an important question in the context of the meaning of death.' `I see what you are driving at. I have an intuitive comprehension, cognizance, that as long as I think that I am an individual, my thinking is separate from the thinking of others - my anxiety, my sorrow is separate from the rest of humanity. I have a feeling - please correct me - that I have reduced a vast complex living of the rest of mankind to a very small, petty little affair. Are you saying in effect that I am not an individual at all? My thinking is not mine? And my brain is not mine, separate from others? Is this what you are hinting at? Is this what you are maintaining? Is this your conclusion?'
`当我们考虑一个人类的死亡时，所有这些问题以及更多的问题都会出现。 那么，看着这一切 —— 这些反应、这个名字、这些形式、这些占据物、这个与别人分离的冲动，被社会和宗教所维持 —— 你可愿意逻辑地，理智地、合理地检察这一切？你愿意考虑一些你自己是一个分离的个人吗？ 在探索死亡的含义的背景下，这是一个重要的问题。' `我明白你的意思。我有一种直觉上的理解，一种认知， 只要我认为我是一个分离的个人，我的思想与别人的思想是分开的 —— 我的焦虑、我的悲伤与其余的人类是分离的。 我就有一种感觉 —— 请纠正我 —— 那就是，我已经把其余人类的、庞大而复杂的生活，缩小成一个非常渺小、琐碎的小事。 你是在说，实际上我根本不是一个分离的个人吗？我的思考不是我的吗？ 我的大脑不是我的，没有与别人的分开？ 这是你所暗示的吗？这是你所坚持的吗？这是你的结论吗？'
`If one may point out, the word "conclusion" isn't justified. To conclude means to shut down, to end - conclude an argument, conclude a peace after a war. We are not concluding anything; we are just pointing out, because we must move away from conclusions, from finality and so on. Such an assertion limits, brings a narrowness into our enquiry. But the fact, the observable rational fact, is that your thinking and the thinking of another are similar. The expression of your thinking may vary; you may express something in one way if you are an artist, and another person, who is not an artist, may express it in another way. You judge, evaluate, according to the expression, and the expression then divides you into an artist and a football player. But you, as an artist, and he, as a football player, think. The football player and the artist suffer, are anxious, have great pain, disappointment, apprehension; one believes in god and the other doesn't believe in god, one has faith and the other has no faith, but this is common to all human beings, though each one may think he is different. You may think my sorrow is entirely different from another's, that my loneliness, my desperation, are wholly opposite to another's. Our tradition is that, our conditioning is that, we are educated to that - I am an Arab, you are a Jew, and so on. And from this division there arises not only individuality but the communal racial difference. The individual identifying himself with a community, with a nation, with a race, with a religion invariably brings conflict between human beings. It is a natural law. But we are only concerned with the effects, not with the causes of war, causes of this division.
`如果一个人可以指出，‘结论’这个词是不公正的。 下结论意味着关闭，终结 —— 给一个争执下一个结论，给一场战争的结束下一个‘和平’的结论。 我们不给任何东西下结论； 我们只是指出，因为我们必须远离结论，远离定局等等。 像这样的断言，限制并缩小了我们的调查范围。 但是这个事实，这个可观察的、理性的事实：你的思想和另一个人的思想是相似的。 你对思想的表达可能有多种形式； 如果你是艺术家，你可以用一种方式表达一些东西， 而不是艺术家的另一个人，可能会用另一种方式表达它。 你根据这些表达来进行判断、评估，然后这些表达将你们划分为艺术家和足球运动员。 但是，你作为一个艺术家，他作为一个足球运动员，思想。 足球运动员和艺术家都有苦难、焦虑，有巨大的痛苦、失望、忧惧； 一个人相信上帝，另一个人不相信上帝，一个人有信仰，另一个人没有信仰， 但这是全人类共有的，尽管每个人都可能认为他是不同的。 你可能认为我的悲伤与别人的完全不同，我的孤独，我的绝望，与另一个人的完全相反。 我们的传统是那样，我们的条件限制是那样，我们被教育成那样 —— 我是一个阿拉伯人，你是一个犹太人，等等。 从这种划分上，不仅产生了个性，还产生了共有的种族差异。 这个人把他自己与某一个社区、某一个国家、某一个种族、某一个宗教相认同， 必然就带来了人类之间的冲突。它是一条自然法则。 但是，我们只关心这种结果，而不关心战争的这个根源，这种划分的根源。
`So we are merely pointing out, not asserting, not concluding, that you, sir, are the rest of humanity, psychologically, deeply. Your reactions are shared by all humanity. Your brain is not yours, it has evolved through centuries of time. You may be conditioned as a Christian, believe in various dogmas, rituals; another has his own god, his own rituals, but all this is put together by thought. So we are questioning deeply whether there is an individual at all. We are the whole of humanity; we are the rest of mankind. This is not a romantic, fantastic, statement, and it is important, necessary, when we are going to talk over together the meaning of death.'
`因此，我们只是指出，不是断言，不是下结论， 那个‘你’，先生，是人类的其余部分，在心理上，在深处里。 你的反应是被全人类所共享的。 你的大脑不是你的，它已经进化了几个世纪。 你可能被局限成为一个基督徒，相信各种教条、仪式； 另一个人有他自己的神，有他自己的仪式，但所有这些都是通过思想而拼凑的。 因此，我们深深地质疑：是否存在分离的个人。 我们就是整个人类；我们就是人类的其余部分。 这不是一个浪漫的、奇妙的陈述， 当我们要一起谈论死亡的意义时，它是重要的，必要的。
`What do you say to all this, sir?'
“你对这一切怎么说，先生？”
`I must say I am rather puzzled by all these questions. I am not certain why I have always considered myself to be separate from you or from somebody else. What you say seems to be true but I must think it over, I must have a little time to assimilate all that you have said so far.'
`我必须说，我对所有这些问题都感到困惑。 我不确定为什么我一直认为我自己与你或别人是分开的。 你说的似乎是真的，但我必须仔细思索， 我必须花一点时间来吸收你到目前为止所说的一切。’
`Time is the enemy of perception. If you are going to think over what we have talked about so far, argue with yourself, discuss what has been said, analyse what we have talked over together, it is going to take time. And time is a brand new factor in the perception of that which is true. Anyhow, shall we leave it for the moment?'
`时间是感知的敌人。 如果你要思考我们到目前为止已经谈论过的内容，与你自己争论， 讨论已经说过的内容，分析我们一起讨论过的内容，这将需要时间。 而时间是感知真实的一个全新因素。 无论如何，我们可以暂时放下它吗？'
He came back after a couple of days and he seemed more quiet and rather concerned. It was a cloudy morning and probably it was going to rain. In this part of the world they need much more rain because beyond the hills there is a vast desert. It gets very cold here at night because of that. `I have come back after a couple of days of quiet thinking. I have a house by the sea, I live by myself. It is one of those little seaside cottages and you have in front of you the beach and the blue Pacific, and you can walk for miles on the beach. I generally go for long walks either in the morning or evening. After seeing you the other day I took a walk along the beach, probably about five miles or more, and I decided to come back and see you again. I was at first very disturbed. I couldn't quite make out what you were saying, what you were pointing out to me. Though I am rather a sceptical person about these matters, I allowed what you were saying to occupy my mind. It wasn't that I was inwardly accepting or denying it, but it intrigued me, and I purposely use the word "allow" - to allow it to enter into my mind. And after some deliberation I took a car and drove along by the coast and then turned inland and came here. It is a beautiful valley. I am glad to find you here. So could we continue with what we were talking about the other day?
几天后他回来了，他看起来更安静，更关切。 这是一个多云的早晨，可能要下雨了。 在世界的这个地区，他们需要更多的雨水，因为在山丘之外有一片广阔的沙漠。 正因为如此，这里晚上会变得非常寒冷。 “经过几天的安静思考，我回来了。我在海边有一所房子，我一个人住。 它是那些海边小屋之一，你的面前是海滩和蓝色的太平洋， 你可以在海滩上步行数英里。我通常在早上或晚上去散步。 前几天见到你后，我沿着海滩散步，大概五英里或更远，我决定再回来见你。 起初我非常不安。我不太清楚你在说什么，你在向我指出什么。 虽然我对这些事情持怀疑态度，但我允许你说的话占据了我的头脑。 那并不是说我从内心接受或拒绝它， 但它引起了我的兴趣，我故意使用‘允许’这个词 —— 让它进入我的头脑。 经过某些深思熟虑，我开着一辆车，沿着海岸行驶，然后转向内陆，来到这里。 这是一个美丽的山谷。 我很高兴在这里找到你。那么，我们能继续前几天谈论的事情吗？
`If I understand it clearly, you were pointing out that tradition, long conditioned thinking, can bring about a fixation, a concept that one readily accepts, perhaps not with a great deal of thought - accepts the idea that we are separate individuals; and as I thought more about it - I am using the word `thought` in its ordinary sense, thinking, rationalizing, questioning, arguing - it was as though I was having a discussion with myself, a prolonged dialogue, and I think I really do grasp what is involved in that. I see what we have done with the marvellous world we live in. I see the whole historical sequence. And after considerable to and fro of thought I really do understand the depth and the truth of what you said. So if you have time I would like to go much further into all this. I really came to find out, as you know, about death, but I see the importance of beginning with one's comprehension of oneself, and through the door of the self - if one can use the word - come to the question of what is death.'
`如果我理解得很清楚，你指出： 传统和长期受到限制的思想，能够带来一种稳固，一套易于接受的观念， 也许不用经过大量的思考 —— 就能接受 ‘我们是分开的个人’ 这种观念； 当我更多地思考它时 —— 我使用“思考”这个词，是指它通常的意思， 思考、合理化、质疑、争论 —— 就好像我正在与我自己进行一场讨论，长时间的对话， 我认为我确实掌握了那其中的内容。 我看见我们对这个我们所居住的、奇妙的世界所做的一切。我看到了整个历史长河。 经过相当多的思考，我确实理解你所说的话的深度和真实性。 因此，如果您有时间，我想进一步探讨所有这些。 如你所知，我真的发现，关于死亡， 但我看到了从理解‘我’开始的重要性， 并通过‘我’这扇门 —— 如果一个人可以使用这个词 —— 来到‘死亡’这个问题。'
`As we were saying the other day, we share, all humanity shares, the sunlight [he had not said this; that sunlight is not yours or mine. It is the life-giving energy which we all share. The beauty of a sunset, if you are watching it sensitively, is shared by all human beings. It is not yours setting in the west, east, north or south; it is the sunset that is important. And our consciousness, in which is included our reactions and actions, our ideas and concepts and patterns, systems of belief, ideologies, fears, pleasures, faith, the worship of something which we have projected, our sorrows, our griefs and pain - all this is shared by all human beings. When we suffer we have made it into a personal affair. We shut out all the suffering of mankind. Like pleasure; we treat pleasure as a private thing, ours, the excitement of it and so on. We forget that man - including woman, of course, which we needn't repeat - that man has suffered from time beyond all measure. And that suffering is the ground on which we all stand. It is shared by all human beings.
`正如我们前几天所说， 我们分享，所有人类分享，阳光[他没有说这；阳光不是你的或我的。 它赋予了生命的能量，被我们所有人分享。 日落的美丽，如果你敏感地观看它，是全人类所共享的。 不论你在西部、东部、北部或南部；重要的是日落。 而我们的意识，包括我们的反应和行动、 我们的想法和概念和模式、信念体系、意识形态、恐惧、快乐、信仰、 这种对我们所投影出来的东西的崇拜、我们的悲伤、我们的忧郁和痛苦 —— 所有这些都是全人类共享的。 当我们受苦时，我们把它变成了个人的私事。我们把人类的所有痛苦都关在门外。 如同快乐；我们把快乐当作一种私事，我们的，它里面的兴奋等等。 我们忘记了那个人 —— 当然包括女人，我们不需要重复 —— 那个人正在遭受苦难，超越了时间的衡量。 那种苦难是我们大家所站立的基石。它是全人类共有的。
`So our consciousness is not actually yours or mine; it is the consciousness of man, evolved, grown, accumulated through many, many centuries. In that consciousness is the faith, the gods, all the rituals man has invented. It is really an activity of thought; it is thought that has made the content - behaviour, action, culture, aspiration; the whole activity of man is the activity of thought. And this consciousness is the self, is the "me", the I, the ego, the personality and so on. I think it is necessary to understand this very deeply, not merely argumentatively, logically but deeply, as blood is in all of us, is part of us, is the essence, the natural process of all human beings. When one realizes this our responsibility becomes extraordinarily important. We are responsible for everything that is happening in the world as long as the content of our consciousness continues. As long as fear, nationalities, the urge for success, you know the whole business of it - as long as that exists we are part of humanity, part of the human movement.
`所以我们的意识实际上不是你的或我的； 它是人类的这个意识，经过许多世纪而进化，成长，积累。 在那种意识中，有信仰、神祇、人类发明出来的所有仪式。 它实际上是一种思想活动； 是思想制造了这个内容 —— 行为、行动、文化、灵感； 人的全部活动，就是思想的这个活动。 而这个意识就是自我，就是‘我’、自己、自我、这种个性、等等。 我认为有必要非常深刻地理解这一点，不仅仅是在辩论上，在逻辑上， 而是在深处，如同血液流布于我们之内，它是我们的一部分，是所有人类的这个本质，这种自然的过程。 当一个人意识到这一点，我们的责任就变得异常地重要。 只要我们的意识继续存在，我们就对这个世界上正在发生的一切负有责任。 只要存在着恐惧、国籍、这种对成功的渴望、你知道它里面的一切生意 —— 只要它存在，我们就是人类的一部分，就是人类活动的一部分。
`This is utterly important to understand. It is so: the self is put together by thought. Thought is not, as we have said, yours or mine; thinking is not individual thinking. Thinking is shared by all human beings. And when one has really deeply seen the significance of this, then I think we can understand the nature of what it means to die.
`理解这一点非常重要。它就是如此：这个‘我’是由思想捏造的。 正如我们所说，思想不是你的或我的；思考不是某个人的思考。 思考是全人类共享的。 当一个人真正深刻地看到其中的含义， 那么我想，我们就能理解死亡的性质。
`As a boy you must have followed a small stream gurgling along a narrow little valley, the waters running faster and faster, and have thrown something, such as a piece of stick, into the stream and followed it, down a slope, over a little mound, through a little crevasse - followed it until it went over the waterfall and disappeared. This disappearance is our life.
`小时候，当你还是一个小孩子的时候，你一定随着一条小溪，哗啦啦地沿着一条狭窄的小山谷流淌， 水越流越快，把某个东西，比如一条木棍，扔进水流，跟着它， 下到一个斜坡，翻过一个小堤坝，穿过一个小决口 —— 跟着它，直到它越过瀑布，然后消逝。这个消逝，就是我们的生命。
`What does death mean? What is the very word, the threatening feeling about it? We never seem to accept it.'
“死亡是什么意思？这个词到底是什么，由它所引起的威胁感是什么？ 我们似乎从不接受它。’
`MAN HAS KILLED man in different states of mind. He has killed him for religious reasons, he has killed him for patriotic reasons, for peace, killed him through organized war. This has been our lot, killing each other endlessly.
`人在不同的头脑状态下杀人。 他出于宗教的原因而杀他，他出于爱国的原因而杀他，为了和平，通过有组织的战争而杀他。 这是我们的命运，无休止地互相残杀。
`Sir, have you considered this kind of killing, what sorrow has come to man - the immense sorrow of mankind which has gone on through the ages, the tears, the agony, the brutality, the fear of it all? And it is still going on. The world is sick. The politicians, whether left, right, centre, or totalitarian, are not going to bring about peace. Each one of us is responsible, and being responsible we must see that the slaughter comes to an end so that we live on this earth, which is ours, in beauty and peace. It is an immense tragedy which we do not face or want to resolve. We leave it all to the experts; and the danger of experts is as dangerous as a deep precipice or a poisonous snake.
`先生，你有没有想过这种杀戮，给人类带来了什么样的悲伤 —— 那种属于人类的巨大的悲伤，历经时代的变迁，其中的眼泪、痛苦、残酷和对这一切的恐惧？ 而它仍在继续。这个世界病了。 这些政客们，无论是左派、右派、中间派还是极权主义者，都不会带来和平。 我们每一个人都有责任，肩负责任，我们必须看到这种屠杀走向终结， 那样，我们生活在这个地球上，它是我们的，在美丽与和平之中。 它是一个巨大的悲剧，我们没有面对或不想去解决。 我们把它整个地抛给这些专家们； 专家们的这种危险性，如同很深的悬崖或毒蛇一样危险。
`So leaving all that aside, what is the meaning of death? What to you, sir, does death mean?'
“那么，撇开这一切不说，死亡的意义是什么？先生，对你来说，死亡意味着什么？”
`To me it means that all I have been, all that I am, suddenly comes to an end through some disease, accident or old age. Of course I have read and talked to Asiatics, to Indians, for whom there is a belief in reincarnation. I don't know whether this is true or not, but as far as I can understand, death means the ending of a living thing; the death of a tree, the death of a fish, death of a spider, death of my wife and children, a sudden cutting off, a sudden ending of that which has been living with all its memories, ideas, pain, anxiety, joys, pleasures, seeing the sunset together - all that has come to an end. And the remembrance of all that, not only brings tears but also the realization of one's own inadequacy, one's own loneliness. And the idea of separation from one's wife and children, from the things that one has worked for, cherished, remembered, held on to, the attachments and the pain of attachment - all that and more ceases suddenly. I think we generally mean that; death means that. It is to me the ending.
`对我来说，它意味着我所经历的一切，我的全部， 突然间，因某种疾病、事故或衰老而走到终点。 当然，我阅读过亚洲的相关文献，与印度人交谈过，对他们来说，他们相信转世。 我不知道这是不是真的，但据我所知，死亡意味着一个生物的终结； 一棵树的死亡，一条鱼的死亡，一只蜘蛛的死亡，我的妻子和孩子的死亡， 突然的切断，一切的突然结束，生活及其所有的记忆： 想法、痛楚、焦虑、欢乐、快乐、一起看日落的回忆 —— 所有这一切都结束了。 对这一切的回忆，不仅带来眼泪，也意识到了一个人的欠缺，一个人自身的孤独。 与妻子和孩子的离别， 与一个人为之奋斗、珍惜、牢记、紧握的事物的离别， 这种依恋和依恋中所包含的痛苦的离别 —— 所有那些以及更多的东西，突然间消逝了。 我认为那就是我们通常所说的；死亡就意味着那些。对我来说，它就是终结。
`There's a picture of my wife and the children on the piano in my cottage by the sea. We used to play the piano together. There is the remembrance of them in the picture on the piano, but the actuality has gone. Remembrance is painful, or remembrance may give one pleasure, but the pleasure is rather fading because sorrow is overriding. All that to me means death.
`这里有一张我妻子和孩子们在海边小屋里弹钢琴的照片。 我们曾经一起弹钢琴。那张照片中有对他们的回忆，但实际上，已经消失了。 记忆是痛苦的，或者记忆可能会给人一种快乐， 但快乐是相当褪色的，因为悲伤奔涌而来。对我来说，那一切意味着死亡。
`We had a very nice Persian cat, a very beautiful thing. And one morning it had gone. It was on the front porch. It must have eaten something - there it was, lifeless, meaningless; it will never purr again. That is death. The ending of a long life, or the ending of a new born baby. I had a small new plant once which promised to grow into a healthy tree. But some thoughtless, unobservant person passed by, trod on it, and it will never be a great tree. That is also a form of death. The ending of a day, a day that has been poor or rich and beautiful, can also be called death. The beginning and the ending.'
`我们有一只非常漂亮的波斯猫，一个非常漂亮的小家伙。 有一天早上，它消失了。就在前廊上。 它一定吃了某个东西 —— 它就在那里，毫无生气，毫无意义；它再也不会发出呼噜声了。那就是死亡。 一个漫长的生命的结束，或新生婴儿的结束。 我曾经有一棵小植物，它本应长成一棵健康的树。 但是某些轻率的、没有留意的人路过，踩到了它，它永远不会成为一棵大树。 那也是死亡的一种形式。 一天的结束，一个贫穷或丰富和美丽的一天，也可以被称为死亡。 这个开始和这个结束。'
`Sir, what is living? From the moment one is born until one dies, what is living? It is very important to understand the way we live - why we live this way after so many centuries. It is up to you, is it not, sir, if it is one constant struggle? Conflict, pain, joy, pleasure, anxiety, loneliness, depression, and working, working, working, labouring for others or for oneself; being self-centred and perhaps occasionally generous, envious, angry, trying to suppress the anger, letting that anger go rampant, and so on. This is what we call living - tears, laughter, sorrow, and the worship of something that we have invented; living with lies, illusions and hatred, the weariness of it all, the boredom, the inanities: this is our life. Not only yours but the life of all human beings on this earth, hoping to escape from it all. This process of worship, agony, fear has gone on from the ancient of days until now - labour, strife, pain, uncertainty, confusion, and joy and laughter. All this is part of our existence.
`先生，什么是活着？从一个人出生的那一刻起，直到一个人死去，什么是活着？ 理解我们生活的方式非常重要 —— 为什么我们在这么多世纪以后，以这种方式活着。 它取决于你，不是吗，先生，它不是一场持续的挣扎吗？ 冲突，痛苦，喜悦，快乐，焦虑，孤独，抑郁， 以及工作，工作，工作，为他人或为自己而卖力气； 以自我为中心， 也许偶尔会慷慨、嫉妒、生气、试图压抑愤怒、让愤怒猖獗，等等。 这就是我们所说的活着 —— 眼泪、笑声、悲伤、以及对我们所发明的东西的崇拜； 活在谎言、幻想和仇恨中，这里面一切的疲惫、无聊与疯狂：就是我们的生命。 不仅是你的，也是地球上所有人类的生命，并希望逃离这一切。 这种崇拜、痛苦、恐惧的过程从古代一直延续到如今 —— 劳作、争斗、痛苦、不确定、困惑、欢乐和笑声。所有这些都是我们存在的一部分。
`The ending of all this is called death. Death puts an end to all our attachments, however superficial or however deep. The attachment of the monk, the sannyasi, the attachment of the housewife, the attachment to one's family, every form of attachment must end with death.
`这一切的终结被称之为死亡。 死亡终结了我们所有的依恋，无论多么的肤浅或多么深刻。 僧侣的执着、桑雅士的依恋、家庭主妇的依恋、对某个家庭的牵挂， 每一种形式的依恋都伴随着死亡而告终。
`There are several problems involved in this: one, the question of immortality. Is there such a thing as immortality? That is, that which is not mortal, for mortal implies that which knows death. The immortal is that which is beyond time and is totally unaware of this ending. Is the self, the "me", immortal? Or does it know death? The self can never become immortal. The "me", the I, with all its qualities is put together through time, which is thought; that self can never be immortal. One can invent an idea of immortality, an image, a god, a picture and hold to that and derive comfort from it, but that is not immortality.
`这涉及到几个问题：首先，不朽的问题。 有‘不朽’这样的东西吗？ 也就是说，不是凡人的东西，因为凡人意味着知道那种叫‘死亡’的东西。 不朽是超越时间的，完全不知道这种结束。 那个自我，那个‘我’，是不朽的吗？或者，它知道‘死亡’这个东西？ 这个‘我’永远不可能变成不朽的。 这个‘我’，我及其所有的品质都是通过时间拼凑在一起的，也就是思想；那个自我永远不可能是不朽的。 一个人可以发明一个不朽的概念，一个形象，一尊神，一幅图画， 并一直抓住那，并从中得到安慰，但那不是不朽。
`Secondly (this is a little bit more complex): is it possible to live with death? Not morbidly, not in any form of self-destructiveness. Why have we divided death from living? Death is part of our life, it is part of our existence - the dying and the living, and the living and dying. They are inseparable. The envy, the anger, the sorrow, the loneliness, and the pleasure that one has, which we call living, and this thing called death - why separate them? Why keep them miles apart? Yes, miles of time apart. We accept the death of an old man. It is natural. But when a young person dies through some accident or disease, we revolt against it. We say that it is unfair, it shouldn't be. So we are always separating life and death. This is a problem which we should question, understand - or not treat as a problem, but look at, see the inward implications of, not deceptively.
`其次（这有点复杂）：有可能与死亡一起生活吗？ 不是病态的，不是任何形式的自我摧残。 为什么我们要把死亡与生活分开？死亡是我们生命的一部分，它是我们存在的一部分 —— 死亡和生活，出生与去世。它们是密不可分的。 一个人拥有着嫉妒、愤怒、悲伤、孤独和快乐， 我们称之为生活，而这个东西称之为死亡 —— 为什么要把它们分开？ 为什么要把它们分开几英里？是的，相隔几英里的时间。 我们接受一个老人的死亡。它是自然的。 但是，当一个年轻人死于某种事故或疾病时，我们反抗它。 我们说它是不公平的，它不应该存在。所以我们总是把生命与死亡分开。 这是一个我们应该质疑和理解的问题 —— 或者不被视为一个问题，而是观看，看里面的含义，而不是看外表。
`Another question is the issue of time - the time involved in living, learning, accumulating, acting, doing, and the ending of me as we know it; the time that separates the living from the ending. Where there is separation, division, from here to there, from "what is" to "what should be", time is involved. Sustaining this division between that which is called death and that which is called life, is to me a major factor.
`另一个问题是时间问题 —— 时间蕴藏在生活、学习、收集、动作、行为、我的终结等我们所知道的一切； 时间分裂了生长与死亡。 哪里有分离、分裂、从这里到那里、从现实到‘应该是’，哪里就与时间有插足。 对所谓的‘死亡’和所谓的‘生命’的划分，对这个划分的维系，在我看来，是一个主要因素。
`When there is this division, this separation there is fear. Then there is the effort of overcoming that fear and the search for comfort, satisfaction, for a sense of continuity. (We are talking about the psychological world not the physical world or the technical world.) It is time that has put the self together and it is thought that sustains the ego, the self. If only one could really grasp the significance of time and division, the separation, psychologically, of man against man, race against race, one type of culture against another. This separation, this division, is brought about by thought and time, as living and dying. And to live a life with death means a profound change in our whole outlook on existence. To end attachment without time and motive, that is dying while living.
`当有了这种划分，这种分裂，就有恐惧。 接着产生了克服这种恐惧的努力，以及寻求舒适、满意和延续性的努力。 （我们谈论的是心理世界，而不是物理世界或技术世界） 时间把‘我’聚在一起，思考维系着自我意识、自我。 如果一个人能真正地抓住时间和划分的含义， 即人与人、种族与种族、一种文化与另一种文化在心理上的划分。 这种分离，这种分裂，是由思想和时间引起的，被称之为生活与死亡。 与死亡一起生活，意味着我们整个生存视野的深刻变化。 在没有时间和动机的情况下结束依恋，那就是在活着的时候死去。
`Love has no time. It is not my love opposed to your love. Love is never personal; one may love another but when that love is limited, narrowed down to one person, then it ceases to be love. Where there really is love there is no division of time, thought and all the complexities of life, all the misery and confusion, the uncertainties, jealousies, anxieties involved. One has to give a great deal of attention to time and thought. Not that one must live only in the present, which would be utterly meaningless. Time is the past, modified and continuing as the future. It's a continuum and thought holds on, clings to this. It clings to something which it has itself created, put together.
`爱没有时间。它不是我的爱反对你的爱。 爱从来都不是私人的； 一个人可能爱另一个人，但当那种爱被限制，被缩减到一个人，那么它就不再是爱。 在真正有爱的地方，没有时间、思想和生命中一切繁杂的划分， 所有的痛苦与困惑、不确定性、嫉妒和焦虑都纠结在这种划分之内。 一个人必须给予时间和思想极大地关注。 并不是说一个人必须只能活在现在，那是完全没有意义的。 时间是这个过去、修改并得以延续，而成为未来。 这是一个连续体，思想在把舵，紧抓着这个东西。 它紧紧抓住它自己创造的东西，并捏造成形。
`Another question is: as long as human beings represent the entire humanity - you are the entire humanity, not representing it, just as you are the world and the world is you - what happens when you die? When you or another die, you and the other are the manifestation of that vast stream of human action and reaction, the stream of consciousness, of behaviour and so on: you are of that stream. That stream has conditioned the human mind, the human brain, and as long as we remain conditioned by greed, envy, fear, pleasure, joy and all the rest of it, we are part of this stream. Your organism may end but you are of that stream, as you are, while living, that stream itself. That stream, changing, slow at times, fast at others, deep and shallow, narrowed by both sides of the bank and breaking through the narrowness into a vast volume of water - as long as you are of that stream there is no freedom. There is no freedom from time, from the confusion and the misery of all the accumulated memories and attachments. It is only when there is the ending of that stream, the ending, not you stepping out of it and becoming something else, but the ending of it, only then is there quite a different dimension. That dimension cannot be measured by words. The ending without a motive is the whole significance of dying and living. The roots of heaven are in living and dying.'
`另一个问题是：只要人类代表整个人类 —— 你是整个人类，而不是代表它，你就是世界，世界就是你 —— 当你死后会发生什么？ 当你或另一个人死亡时，你和别人是由人类的行为和反应所组成的巨流的表象， 这条意识流、行为流等各种流：你属于那条流。 那条流已经制约了人类的头脑，人类的这颗大脑， 只要我们仍然受到贪婪、嫉妒、恐惧、快乐、喜悦和所有其他事物的制约，我们就是这条流的一部分。 你的有机体可能会结束，但你属于那股流，就如同你活着的时候，你就是那条流。 那条流，不断地变化，时而缓慢，时而奔腾，由深而浅， 被河的两侧压窄，突破这种狭隘，进入大片的水域 —— 只要你在那条流中，就没有自由。 就没有从时间中解放，就没有从一起累积的记忆和依恋所滋生的困惑与痛苦中解脱。 只有当那条流结束， 那种结束，不是你离开了它而变成别的东西，而是它的终结， 唯有如此，才会有一个完全不同的维度。 那个维度是无法用言语来衡量的。 没有动机的终结，就是死亡与生活的全部意义。天空的根源就在这生死之中。