There are a lot of people and I hope some of you understand what is being said. You know we have been talking over together for the last week our human problems; not only talking over together as two friends. but what we have each one of us has discovered for himself in our conversation, and in our exploration and investigation. It must become quite obvious for most of us, if we are at all serious and not treat these gatherings as a kind of festival - a little more serious than the pop festival or other kinds of festivals.

这里有这么多的人，我希望你们中的某些人理解所说的。 你知道，在过去的一周里，我们共同探讨了我们人类的问题； 不仅仅是两个朋友之间的探讨， 在我们的交流、探索和调查中， 我们每个人还亲自在发现他(她)自己。 对多数人来说，它必定已经非常的明显， 如果我们都是严肃的，没有把这些会谈当作某种节日活动 —— 比流行的节假日稍微严肃一些的节日或类似其它的活动。

This morning it will be good to talk over together, as we have talked over fear, pleasure, sorrow, pain and death, I think we ought to talk over this morning the very complex and subtle problem of what is meditation. It is quite a serious issue and perhaps some of you will kindly pay sufficient attention to what is being said, if you care to.

今天早上，将会很适合一起探讨， 我们已经探讨过恐惧、快感、悲伤、痛苦和死亡， 在这个早晨，我想我们可以探讨一个非常复杂而微妙的问题: 什么是冥想。 它是一个相当严肃的题目 也许你们中的某些人会友好地对所说的给予充足的关注， 如果你在乎。

This word is now becoming so common, even the governments are beginning to use it, even the people who want money are trying to meditate more to get more money. They are trying to meditate in order to become quiet so that they can do better business. And the doctors are practising meditation because it will help them to operate properly, and so on and on and on and on. And there are different kinds of meditation - Zen, Tibetan and the ones you invent for yourself. And with all this in mind, the Indian type of meditation, the Tibetan, the Zen, the Encounter Group meditation and the aspiration to have a still, quiet, silent mind, bearing all this in mind, let us try to find out, if we can this morning, why one should meditate and what is the significance of meditation.

这个词如今已经变得很普通， 甚至连政府部门也开始使用它， 甚至想钱的人尝试通过冥想获取更多的钱。 他们尝试冥想，以变得安静，那样，他们就能在生意场上做得更好。 医生们在练习冥想，因为它会有助于他们做好手术。 还有很多这样的例子。并且，有各种类型的冥想 —— 禅坐、西藏的，以及你自己所发明的。 意识到这一切， 印度类型的冥想，西藏式的、禅宗的、会心小组式的冥想 以及想拥有一个宁静的、安静的、不乱跑的头脑的渴望。 记住这一切，让我们尝试找出， 如果我们今天早上能够， 为什么一个人应该冥想，冥想有什么重要性?

This word has recently been popularised from India. And people go to India and to Japan and other places in order to learn meditation, in order to practise meditation, in order to achieve some kind of result through meditation - enlightenment, better understanding of themselves, have peace of mind, whatever that may mean, and generally they have a little peace, but not a peaceful mind. And the gurus have invented their own type of meditation and so on and on and on. Right? I am sure you are aware of all this.

这个词最近已经从印度流传开来。 人们纷纷去印度、日本等地去学习冥想，练习冥想， 以便于获得某种结果 —— 开悟、更好的理解他们自己、拥有平和的头脑， 不管那是什么意思，通常的情况是，他们有一点和平，却不是一个安宁的头脑。 而上师们发明了他们各自的冥想方法等等。对吗? 我确信你们知道所有这些。

And of course there is the passing fad which is called transcendental meditation. It is really a form of siesta in the morning, siesta after lunch, siesta after dinner or before dinner, so that your mind kind of becomes quiet and you can do more mischief afterwards. (Laughter).

当然，还有一种风行一时的，被称之为超觉冥想的方法。 它真实的练习形式是: 早上小睡一会儿，午饭后小睡一会儿，晚饭前或饭后小睡一会儿， 因此，你的头脑变得有一点安静，之后，你就能做出更多的灾祸。(听众大笑)

So consider all this, the various types and practices and systems, and question them. It is good to have doubt, it is good to be sceptical up to a certain point. It is like a dog on the leash, you must let the dog go occasionally, run freely so doubt, scepticism must be kept on a leash all the time but often it must be allowed to run free. And most of us accept the authority of those who say, 'We know how to meditate, we will tell you all about it'.

因此，考虑这到这一切，这些不同类型的、各种各样的训练和系统，并质疑它们。 质疑是好的。对一个确定的观点保持质疑是好事。 它就像拴着皮带的小狗， 你必须让这条狗出去溜达一下，自由地奔跑。 同样，质疑、怀疑必须总是被拴上一条皮带， 但也需要经常允许它自由地奔跑。 然而，我们大多数人接受了这些权威人士的说法： “我们知道怎样冥想，我们会告诉你关于它的一切。”

So please, we are together examining the whole problem, or the whole question of what is meditation, not how to meditate, for then if you ask how am I to meditate, then you will find a system to meditate; the 'how' implies a method. But whereas if you are enquiring into this question of what is meditation, and why should one meditate, then we will never ask how to meditate. The very questioning, the very asking is the beginning of enquiry which is the beginning of meditation.

因此，请注意，我们一起来检查这整个问题 或者说整个关于什么是冥想的问题，而不是怎么冥想。 因为，如果你问怎样冥想，那么你会找到一个冥想体系， 这个词语‘怎样’，暗示着一种方法。 但要是你调查的问题是: 什么是冥想，为什么要冥想？ 那么，你就绝不会问怎样冥想。 这种质问，这种询问就是调查的开始， 也就是冥想的开始。

As we said, this is a very complex problem and we have to go very slowly and hesitantly but subtly into this question. As we said during the last week, that we are investigating, we are enquiring into it, so that you are not listening to the speaker, you are asking the question to yourself and finding the right answer without accepting any kind of authority, specially the authority of the speaker sitting on this unfortunate platform. It doesn't give him any authority because he sits on a platform and talks.

正如我们所说，这是一个非常复杂的问题， 我们必须慢慢地、犹豫地、却又敏锐地进入这个问题。 在上一次的讲话中，我们已经说过， 我们在调查，在深入它，因此你不是在听这个讲话人， 你自己在问你自己这个问题 并寻找这个正确的答案，没有接受任何种类的权威， 特别是这位坐在这个不幸的讲台上的讲话人的权威。 虽然他坐在讲台上，却没有给予他丝毫的权威。

There is no authority in so-called spiritual matters if I can use that word 'spiritual', in the matter of the spirit, in the matter of enquiring into something that demands very, very, very careful examination. So we are doing this together, not meditating together but enquiring what is meditation and from that discover for oneself as we go along the whole movement of meditation. Is this all right?

在所谓的灵性领域，没有权威， 如果我可以用这个词语‘灵性’，灵性领域内的事物， 在调查它的时候需要非常、非常、非常仔细地检查。 因此我们一起来做，不是一起冥想， 而是共同质疑什么是冥想， 一个人亲自发现，如同我们沿着冥想的踪迹探查。 这样可好？

First I think one must be careful in observing that meditation is not something that you do. Meditation is something entirely, a movement into the whole question of our living. That is the first thing, how we live, how we behave, whether we have fears, anxieties, sorrows, or if we are pursuing everlastingly pleasure, whether we have built images about ourselves and about others. That is part of our life and in the understanding of that life and of those various issues involved in life and being free from those, actually being free, then we can proceed to enquire into what is meditation.

首先，我想一个人必须小心地看清那一点： 冥想不是你所练习的那个。 冥想是某个整体的，某个流淌于我们生活中的所有问题之中的运动。 那是首要之事，我们是怎么生活，怎样行动的， 我们是否有恐惧、焦虑、悲伤，或者是否在追逐持久的快感， 我们是否已经构建了有关我们自身和他人的画面？ 那就是我们生命的一部分， 理解那条生命、理解生命中的各种事件， 并从中解脱，真正地处于自由的状态， 那么，我们能进去调查什么是冥想。

That is why we have, for the last ten days or the last week, we have said we must put order in our house - our house is ourselves -- complete order. Then when that order is established, not according to a pattern, but when there is understanding, complete understanding of what is disorder, what is confusion, why we are in contradiction in ourselves, why there is this constant struggle between the opposites and so on, which we have been talking about for the last ten days or last week.

那就是为什么我们，在十天前或上周的时候， 我们说到，我们必须把我们的房子打理整洁 —— 我们的房子就是我们自己 —— 完整的秩序。 那么，当那种秩序被建立，不是依据某种规范， 而是出于理解，彻底地理解什么是失序， 什么是困惑，为什么我们的内在处于矛盾之中， 为什么在对立面之间有永无休止的挣扎，等等， 这些我们都已经探讨过，在十天前或上一周的时候。

Having put that in order, our life in order, and the very placing things in their proper place is the beginning of meditation. Right? If we have not done that, actually, not theoretically, but in daily life, every moment of our life, then if you have not done that then meditation merely becomes another form of illusion, another form of prayer, another form of wanting something - money, position, refrigerator and so on.

放好那些，我们的生命处于秩序中， 把东西放到它们适当的位置，就是冥想的开始。 对吗？如果我们没有那么做，真实地，不是理论上地， 而是在日常的生命中，在我们生命中的每一刻。 如果你没有那样做， 那么冥想就仅仅成为了另一种形式的幻觉，另一种形式的祈祷， 另一种形式的欲求 —— 金钱、地位、冰箱等等。

So we are asking now, what is the movement of meditation? First of all we must understand the importance of the senses. Most of us react, or act according to the urges, demands and the insistence of our senses. And those senses never act as a whole but only as a part. Right? Please understand this. If you don't mind enquiring into this a little more for yourselves, talking over together, that all our senses never function, move, operate as a whole, holistically. If you observe yourself and watch your senses you will see that one or the other of the senses becomes dominant. One or the other of the senses takes a greater part in observation in our daily living, so there is always imbalance in our senses. Right? May we go on from there?

因此我们问: 冥想的运动是什么？ 首先，我们必须理解感官的重要性。 我们大多数人的反应或行为，是出于我们感官上的冲动、要求和主张。 那些感官从来没有作为一个整体，而是作为某个部分在运作。对吗？请理解这一点。 如果你不介意，多多少少地调查你自身， 一起探讨，我们的感官从没有作为一个整体，完整地，协同地运行、移动、运转。 如果你观察你自己，视察你的感觉器官们， 你会看到某一个或几个感官起着支配作用。 在我们日常生活中，一个或几个感官扮演着更重要的角色。 因此我们的感觉总处于失衡的状态。对吗？ 我们可以从这里继续吗？

Now is it possible - this is part of meditation, what we are doing now - is it possible for the senses to operate as a whole; to look at the movement of the sea, the bright waters, the eternally restless waters, to watch those waters completely, with all your senses? Or a tree, or a person, or a bird in flight, a sheet of water, the setting sun, or the rising moon, to observe it, look at it with all your senses fully awakened. If you do, then you discover for yourself.

现在，有没有可能 —— 这是冥想的一部分，我们正在做 —— 有可能让所有的感官作为一个整体而运转吗？ —— 观看大海，透亮的水，起伏不断的水， 全然地观看这些水，用你所有的感官。 或者看一棵树、一个人、一只飞翔的鸟、一泓瀑布、夕下的夕阳、升起的新月， 观看它，让你的所有感官完全地苏醒。 如果你做，那么，你亲自在发现。

I am not telling you, I am not your authority, I am not your guru, you are not my followers. Followers are the most destructive people and the gurus too - if you observe this, if you observe this operation of the whole senses acting you will find there is no centre from which the senses are moving. Are you trying this as we are talking over together?

我没有告诉你，我不是你的权威，不是你的上师，你不是我的粉丝。 粉丝是最具有破坏性的人，这位上师也是 —— 如果你看见，如果你看见所有的感官在运转， 你会发现在这些感官的转动中，没有中心。 在我们一起探讨的时候，你在尝试这个吗？

To look at your girl, or your husband, or your wife, or the tree, or the house, with all the highly active, sensitive senses. Then in that there is no limitation. You try it. You do it and you will find out for yourself. That is the first thing one has to understand the place of the senses.

去看你的女朋友、你的丈夫或你的妻子、这棵树、这栋房子。 让所有的感官高度地活泼，高度地灵敏。 那么，那里没有界线。你去试它。 你做它，你会亲自找出。 那是首要的东西 —— 一个人必须理解感官们所居处的位置。

Because most of us operate on partial or particular senses. We never move or live with all our senses fully awakened, flowering. Because as most of us live, operate and think partially, so one of our enquiries into this is, for the senses to function fully and realise the importance and the illusions that senses create - you are following all this? And to give the senses their right place, which means not suppressing them, not controlling them, not running away from them but to give the proper place to the senses. You understand?

因为我们大多数人的运转是基于部分的或个别的感官。 在行动或生活中，我们从没有彻底地唤醒所有的感官 —— 如花般绽放。 因为我们大多数人片面地生活、操作和思考， 所以我们进入这里面调查，让感官们完整地发挥功能， 并意识到这一重要性，以及感官创造出的幻觉 —— 你跟上这一切了吗？ 给感官们以适合他们的位置， 也就是不压制他们，不控制她们，不逃避它们 而是给这些感官们适当的地位。你理解吗？

This is important because in meditation, if you want to go into it very deeply, unless one is aware of the senses, they create different forms of neurosis, different forms of illusions, they dominate in our emotions and so on, so on, so on. So that is the first thing to realise if when the senses are fully awakened, flowering, then the body becomes extraordinarily quiet. Have you noticed all this? Or am I talking to myself?

这很重要，因为冥想中，如果你想深入它， 除非一个人意识到这一帮感官们， 他们创造出不同形式的神经症，不同形式的幻觉， 他们支配着我们的情感，等等，等等。 因此，那是首要的，首先意识到：感官们是否完全地苏醒、盛开， 那么，这具身体变得异常地安静。 你没有注意到这吗？ 或者，我在自说自话？

Because most of us force our bodies to sit still, not fidget, not to move about and so on - you know. Whereas if all the senses are functioning healthily and normally, vitally then the body relaxes and becomes very, very quiet, if you do it. Do it as we are talking.

因为我们大多数人强迫我们的身体坐着不动，‘不能坐立不安’，‘不要动’，等等 —— 你知道。 然而，如果所有的感官们健康地、正常地、活泼地发挥功能， 那么，这具身体放松，变得非常、非常的安静，如果你做它。 做它，在我们说的时候。

Then the question arises: what is time? what is the place of time in meditation? And what is the place of control in meditation? You understand? May I go on? I hope we are meeting each other, are we? First let's take whether it is possible to live a life, daily life, not occasionally, but live a life without any form of control - which doesn't mean permissive activity or doing what one likes, rejecting tradition and you know all the modern young people are doing - that is, no regret, no restraint, no control, do what you want - which the old people do anyhow, only you think it is their prerogative, something they have invented.

接着冒出来的问题是：什么是时间？ 在冥想中，时间的地位是什么？ 在冥想中，控制的位置是什么？ 你理解吗？ 我可以继续吗？我希望我们相互会面，碰见了吗？ 首先，我们来考虑一下，有可能在生活中，在平日的生命里， 不是偶然地，而是过一种生活，其中没有任何形式的控制？ —— 这并不是指放肆的活动，或者做一个人喜欢做的事， 反抗传统，你知道的所有现代青年人正在做的 —— 那就是，不悔改、不限制、不控制，做你想做的 —— 年长的人们也这样做，只是你以为这是他们的特权，是他们的发明。

Now we are asking a question, please consider it seriously whether it is possible to live a life without any form of control, because when there is control there is the action of will. Right? Are you following? So what is will? I will do this. I must not do that. Or, I should, in the future must do that, and so on. The operation of will. So we have to enquire what is will. Is will not desire? Is not will the essence of desire? Right? Please look at it. Don't reject it or accept it, enquire into it.

现在，我们在问一个问题，请认真地考虑它： 是否有可能过一种没有任何控制形式的生活， 因为有控制，就有意志的动作。 对吧？你跟上了吗？因此，什么是意志？ 我愿意这么做，我必须不那么做，或者，我应该，在未来必须那样做，等等 这就是意志的运转。 所以我们必须调查：什么是意志？ 意志不是欲望吗？意志难道不是欲望的本质吗？对吗？ 请盯着它。别去反对它或接受它，进去调查它。

Because we are now asking whether it is possible to live a life in which there is not a shadow of control, which means not a shadow of the operation of will. And will is the very movement of desire. We went into the whole question of what is desire. I won't go into it now because I have a lot to cover this morning. Desire is contact, perception, seeing, contact, sensation, from that arises desire and thought with its image - all that is desire, which we went into but I won't go into now.

因为我们在问： 是否有可能过一种生活，其中没有一丝控制的影子， 也就是说，没有这个意志运作的一丝阴影。 意志恰好就是欲望的移动。 我们已经调查过‘什么是欲望’这整个问题。 现在我不会进入它，因为今天早上我有很多要覆盖。 欲望是接触、捕捉、看到、接触、感觉， 从那里升起欲望和思想制作出的它的画面 —— 那一切就是欲望，我们已经深入地调查过，我现在就不进入了。

And we are asking is it possible to live without the action of will? Most of us live a life of restraint, control, suppression, and so on, escape. And you have to ask who is the controller? When you say, 'I must control myself, my anger, my jealousy, my laziness, my indolence' and so on, who is the controller? Is the controller different from that which he controls? You understand?

我们问: 有可能毫无意志地活着吗？ 我们大多数人活在克制、控制、压抑、逃避之中。 你可曾问过谁是控制者？当你说： “我必须控制我自己，我的愤怒、我的嫉妒、我的懒散、我的懈怠” 等等。 谁是这个控制者？这个控制者不同于它所控制的那些东西吗？你理解？

Or are they both the same? The controller is the controlled. This is probably too difficult. Is it all right? Do we understand? After all you have listened to me for a week or ten days, by now our language, our use of words must be quite common and understood.

或者说，他们是同样的东西？ 控制者就是被控制的东西。 这一点可能非常困难。它是否一样？我们理解吗？ 毕竟，在过去的一周或十天里，你在听我。 现在，我们的语言，我们所用的词语必定是普通的、被理解的。

So as long as there is a controller, he is exercising his capacity to control. And we are saying the controller is the essence of desire. And he is trying to control his activities, his thoughts, his wishes and so on, so on. So realising all that, can one live a life which is not promiscuous, which is not doing what you like but a life without any form of control, either sexual - and not indulgence, the will to control what you should, should not, you know the whole problem of control.

因此只要有一个控制者，他就正在训练他的控制能力。 我们说，控制者就是欲望的本质。 他在尝试控制他的活动、他的思想、他的愿望等等，等等。 因此意识到那一切，一个人能过一种生活，其中没有杂乱， 也就是不去做你所喜欢的，而是一种生活，没有任何形式的控制 —— 不管是性爱、还是禁欲，还是‘你应该这么做，不应该那么做’的控制欲， 你知道有关控制的一切问题。

Very few people have gone into this question. And the whole eastern form of meditation is partly control. And personally I object to the whole, their system of any form of control, because the mind then is never free, always subjugating itself to a pattern, whether that pattern is established by another or by oneself.

很少有人进入这个问题。 整个东方的冥想形式存在一部分的控制。 而我私人反对这一切，反对含有任何控制形式的体系， 因为这颗头脑就绝不可能自由，它总是使它自己屈服于一种规则， 不论那个规则是别人建立的，还是一个人自己建立的。

So the senses, the control. Then we must ask what is time? Not the scientific fiction, science fiction of time. What is, in our daily life, what is time? What part does it play in our life? How important is it in our daily activities? You understand my question?

因此，这些感官们，这种控制。接下来我们必须问：什么是时间？ 不是科学小说，科幻小说里面的时间。 而是在我们平常生活中，什么是时间？ 它在我们的生命中扮演着什么角色？在我们的日常生活中有多重要？ 你理解我的问题吗？

Of course there is time by the watch. There is time according to the sun - the setting and the rising of the sun. There is time as yesterday, today and tomorrow. There is time as something that happened in the past, remembered, and shaping the present and the future. Right? So there is physical chronological time and we have also psychological time - I will be, I must, I am violent, I will be non-violent. All that implies a movement of time. Right? Movement means time. Please understand this really very carefully because we are going to enquire into meditation, which is whether the mind can be absolutely quiet in which time as movement doesn't exist at all.

显然，存在着钟表上的时间； 存在着依据太阳 —— 日出、日落的时间； 存在着作为昨天、今天、明天的时间。 存在着曾经发生过的、过去的事情被回忆，并用来塑造这个现在和这个未来的时间。对吗？ 因此有生理的、顺序性的时间，以及我们所谓的心理的时间 —— 我会成为那样，我必须，我是暴力的，我会变成非暴力的。 那一切都意味着一种时间的推移。对吗？ 移动的意思就是时间。请真切地，很仔细地理解这一点， 因为我们即将深入调查冥想， 也就是：头脑是否能绝对的安静，而作为推移的时间完全地不存在。

You are following all this? Are you interested in all this? Questioner Yes. Krishnamurti： Even as intellectual curiosity? Because this is very important to understand, whether time, not chronological time but psychological time, can that come to an end? Or must there be always till I die this movement of, I will be, I must not be, I should be, I shall not be, regret, remembrance - you follow? - the whole psychological activity in which time is involved.

你们跟上这一切了吗？你们对这些感兴趣吗？ 听众：是的。 克里：就算是智力上的好奇？ 因为理解这一点非常重要，时间能否 —— 不是顺序性的时间，而是心理的时间 —— 能否走向终结？ 或者在我死亡的那一刻之前，总是处于这种移动状态： 我要成为，我不要那样，我应该是那样，我不应该是这样，后悔，回忆 —— 你跟上了吗？ —— 这全部的心理活动，都被卷入到时间之中。

That is, can time come to an end? Please see why it is important. Because our brains are conditioned to time, our brains are the result of a million years and more, how many it doesn't matter - immemorial, centuries upon centuries the brain is conditioned, it has evolved, grown, flowered. It is a very, very ancient brain, and as it has evolved through time - evolution implies time - as it evolved, it functions in time. You understand? I wonder if you understand all this!

那么，时间能走到尽头吗？请观看它为什么重要。 因为我们的大脑受限于时间， 我们的大脑是百万年或更长时间的结果， 到底有多长没关系，从无法追忆的年代起，世纪复世纪， 这个大脑被限制，它已经进化，成长，开花。 它是一颗非常、非常古老的大脑， 它通过时间得以进化 —— 进化意味着时间 —— 当它进化的时候，它在时间之内发挥作用。 你们理解吗？我怀疑你是否理解这一切！

The moment you say, 'I will' it is in time. When you say, 'I must do that' it is also in time. Everything that we do involves time and our brains are conditioned to not only chronological time, sun, rising, sun setting, but also to the psychological time. So the brain has evolved through millennia and the very idea, the very question whether it can end time - you follow? - it is a paralysing process. I wonder if you understand this? It is a shock to it. Does somebody understand this?

在你说‘我要’的那一刻，它就在时间之内。 当你说‘我必须那样做’，它也在时间之内。 我们做的每件事都深陷于时间， 我们的大脑不仅受限于顺序性的时间：日升，日落， 也受限于心理的时间。 因此，这颗进化了数百万年的大脑， 而正是这种想法，正是这个问题: 它能终结时间吗？ —— 你跟上了吗？—— 这是一个瘫痪的过程。 我怀疑你是否理解这。 对它来说，这是一个休克。有人理解这吗？

Because we are going to ask presently whether the brain itself can be absolutely quiet. You understand? Not your body, not your breathing, not your eyes and thought - the brain itself, which is constantly chattering, constantly thinking about this, that and the other. Whether those very brain cells can be absolutely quiet. So therefore we must understand the nature of time. That is, psychologically, inwardly we are caught in a network of time. I am going to die, I am afraid, I shall be, I have been, and I remember the happy things or the painful things. And the brain is functioning, living in time. Right? You can see this yourself. This is an obvious fact.

因为我们在问，这颗大脑能不能绝对地安静。 你理解吗？不是你的身体、你的呼吸，不是你的眼睛和思想 —— 这颗大脑本身， 也就是这个喋喋不休的，不断地想这儿想那儿的、飘飘然的家伙。 这些脑细胞们能不能绝对地安静。 因此我们必须理解时间的性质。 那就是，在心理上，在里面，我们被时间之网抓捕。 我快要死了，我害怕，我应该是，我已经达成，我记得这件高兴或痛苦的事。 这颗大脑正在运转，活在时间的领域中。对吗？ 你自己能看见这一点，这是个明显的事实。

So part of meditation is to find out for oneself whether time can stop. Not - you can't do this saying, 'Time must stop' - it has no meaning. But to understand the whole structure and the nature and the depth of this question. Right? That means is it possible for the brain to realise that it has no future? Do you understand what I am saying?

因此，冥想的一部分是亲自找出：时间能不能停下。 不! —— 你不能这样说：‘时间必须停止！’ —— 它没有意义。 而是去理解这个问题的整体结构、性质和深邃。对吗？ 那意味着，有没有可能让这颗大脑意识到它没有未来？ 你理解我在说什么吗？

We live either in despair, or in hope. Right? Don't you? Hope is part of time. I am miserable, unhappy, uncertain, I hope to be happy - do you understand? Part of time is this destructive nature of hope, or the invention of the priests throughout the world - faith. You suffer but have faith in god, everything is all right. Do you follow all this? Again that is, faith in something involves time. Can you stand - stand in the sense, - can you tolerate that there is no tomorrow psychologically? Can you? That is part of meditation, to find out psychologically there is no tomorrow.

我们要么活在失望中，要么活在希望中。对吗？你不是吗？ 希望是时间的一部分。 我悲苦，不高兴，不确定，我希望自己高兴 —— 你理解吗？ 时间的一部分就是这种具有毁灭性的希望 或者这个被世界上的牧师们发明的东西 —— 信仰。 你受苦，但是信仰上帝，一切都是好的。你跟上这一点了吗？ 同样地，那意味着，对某个东西的信仰牵涉到时间。 你能站立 —— 站立意味着 —— 你能承受没有明天吗？在心理上。你能吗？ 那是冥想的一部分，在心理上找出没有明天。

We were once talking with somebody quite intelligent, quite learned, about this question. And it was a real shock to him when we said: "hope, faith, movement of the future as tomorrow is non existent." He was appalled at the idea - you understand, sir? - "I shan't meet you tomorrow, whom I love" - do you understand what I am saying?

我们曾经与一位相当聪明、相当博学的人谈论这个问题。 当我们说：“希望，信仰，被称之为'明天'的这种未来的运动不存在。” 对他来说，这是一种真实的打击。 他被这种想法吓呆了 —— 你理解吗？先生？ —— “我明天将见不到你，亲爱的。” —— 你理解我在说什么吗？

I may meet you, I probably will, but the hope, the pleasure, the looking forward to something, all that is involved in time. Which doesn't mean if you have no hope that you discard hope, which means that you understand the movement of time. If you discard hope then you become bitter, then you say, "Why should I live, what is the purpose of life?" and all that nonsense begins - depression, agony to live without anything in the future - do you understand all this?

我可能会见到你，我或许会， 但是这种希望，这种快感，这种对某个事物的期盼，所有那一切都卷入到时间之内。 这并不是在说你不没有希望，你就抛弃了希望， 而是意味着你在理解时间的这种运动。 如果你抛弃希望，那么你就变得苦涩，那你就会说 “为什么我要活着，生命有什么目的？” 接着各种胡扯开始了 —— 压抑、极大的痛苦：‘活着，未来却什么都没有’ —— 你理解这一切吗？

So one has to go into this question, not verbally, not theoretically but actually to find out psychologically in yourself: if you have the slightest sense of tomorrow.

因此，一个人必须进入这个问题，不是在口头上，不是在理论上， 而是在你自身中，真实地找出： 你是否对明天有丝毫的感觉。

And the next question in meditation is whether thought as time can stop? Thought, as we have talked a great deal about it, is important, important in its right place. But it has no importance whatsoever psychologically. I wonder if you see this. We shall, I must go briefly into it.

冥想的下一个问题：作为时间的思想能停止吗？ 思想，关于它，我们已经说了很多，是重要的，当它位于恰当的位置的时候。 但在心理上，它一点也不重要。 我怀疑你是否看到这一点。 我们会，我必须简明地走进它。

Thought is the reaction of memory, it is born from memory. Memory is experience, experience as knowledge stored up in the brain cells themselves. You can watch your own brain, you don't have to become a specialist - I am not, I've just observed myself very carefully. The brain cells hold this memory. It is a material process. There is nothing sacred, nothing holy about it.

思想是记忆的反应，它从记忆中诞生。 记忆就是经历，经历作为知识，被保存在脑细胞内。 你能观察你自己的大脑，你不必成为一个专家 —— 我不是，我只是非常仔细地观察过我自己。 脑细胞保管着这些记忆。它是一种物质过程。 它没有什么神圣的、圣洁的东西。

And everything that we have done - going to the moon, planting a silly flag up there, - going down to the depths of the sea and living there, thought has created all this, the immense complicated technology and its machinery. Thought has been responsible for all this. Thought has also been responsible for all wars - right? - this is obvious, you don't have to question it even, because your thought has divided Britain, France, Germany, Russia - you follow?

而我们所做的每一件事 —— 到月球上去，在上面竖起一面傻傻的旗帜； —— 潜入深海，并在那里生活，思想创造了所有这一切， 极端复杂的技术和机械装置。 思想对这一切负有责任。 思想也对所有的战争负责 —— 对吗？ —— 这是明显的，你们甚至不用去质疑它， 因为你的思想已经划分出英国人、法国人、德国人、俄罗斯人 —— 你跟上了吗？

And thought has created the psychological structure as the 'me'. Right? That 'me' is not holy, something divine. It is just thought putting together - the anxieties, the fears, the pleasures, the sorrow, the pain, the attachments, the fear of death, it has put all this together which is the 'me'. It is this 'me' with its consciousness. Right? I wonder.

同时，思想已经构建出心理的结构，被称之为‘我’。对吗？ 那个‘我’不是某种圣洁的、神性的东西。它只不过是思想捏造的 —— 这些焦虑、恐惧、快感、悲伤、痛苦、依恋、对死亡的恐惧 它把这一切捏在一起，制造出了‘我’。它就是‘我’和‘我的意识’。 对吗？我有些怀疑……

May we proceed from there? You are following all this? This is 'me', this consciousness. This consciousness is what it contains. Consciousness, your consciousness is what you are - it is your anxieties, your fears, your struggle, your wounds, your psychological despairs, pleasure and so on. The content of your consciousness is its content. Right? Again there is nothing to argue, made difficult, it is simple.

我们可以从这里开始吗？你跟上这一切了吗？ 这就是‘我’，这个意识。这个意识就是它所包含的内容。 意识，你是什么，你就是你的意识 —— 它是你的焦虑、你的恐惧、你的挣扎、你的伤口， 你心中的绝望、快感等等。 你意识中的这些内容就是它的材质，对吗？ 同样，这一点也没有什么好争辩的，没什么困难，它是简单的。

And that is the result of time. Right? I have been hurt yesterday, psychologically, you said something brutal to me, it has wounded me, and it is part of my consciousness. I have had pleasure, that's part of... and so on. So consciousness is involved in time. When we say can time end, it implies the total emptying of this consciousness with its content. It implies that. Whether you can do it or not, that is a different matter. But it implies that.

而那就是时间的结果。对吗？ 我昨天受了伤，在心理上， 你对我说了残忍的话，它伤害了我，它成了我意识的一部分。 我曾经拥有快感，它也成了我的一部分……等等。 因此，意识被在时间之内翻滚。 当我们说时间能不能停下， 它意味着彻底地清空这个意识，以及它的内容。 它意味着那。 不管你能不能做到，那是另一回事。但它意味着那。

When you are enquiring into time, whether the innumerable layers of this consciousness, sensation, desire and all that, layer after layer, the whole structure of it, whether that consciousness which is a result of time - yesterday I was hurt and so on and so on, whether that consciousness can empty itself completely, therefore time psychologically ends. I am putting first this question for you to look at. Then we can ask is it possible? Do you understand my question?

当你调查时间，不论这意识有多少层 —— 感觉、欲望和那里的一切，一层叠一层，它的整个框架， 那个意识作为时间的产物 —— 昨天我受伤了，等等，等等， 那个意识能否彻底清空它自己，从而使心理的时间停摆？ 我先把这个问题递给你去看。 那么我们问，它是可能的吗？ 你理解我的问题吗？

You are aware of your consciousness - aren't you? - you know what you are, if you have gone into it sufficiently, at least for the last week you might have done it, somewhat. But if you have gone into it you will see all this travail, all this struggle, all the misery, uncertainty is part of you, part of this consciousness, your ambitions, your greed, your aggressiveness, your anger, your bitterness - all that is part of this consciousness, which is the accumulation from a thousand yesterdays to today. And we are asking whether that consciousness which is the result of time - psychological as well as physiological - can empty itself so that time has come to an end.

你观照你的意识 —— 你没有吗？ —— 你知道你是什么，如果你已经足够地深入， 至少在最近的一周里，你可能这样做过。 要是你走进去，你会看到这里面所有的辛劳、所有的挣扎、 所有的不幸和困惑，都是你的一部分，是这个意识的一部分。 你的抱负、你的贪婪、你的侵略、你的愤怒、你的苦涩 —— 那一切都属于这个意识， 这个从数千个昨天到今天的积累物。 而我们在问：这个意识，作为时间的结果 —— 在心理的和生理上的时间的结果 —— 能清空它自己，以便于时间走到尽头吗？

You have understood the question first? Please, somebody say 'yes' or 'no' - (laughs) at least. Q: Yes. K: Don't go to sleep. We are going to find out if it is possible. If you say it is not possible then you have closed the door, then you might just as well walk out, don't sit here and waste your time, if you say it is not possible. And if you say it is possible you have also closed the door. But whereas if you say let's find out, then you are open to it, you are eager to find out. Right?

首先，你们是否已经理解了这个问题？ 请你们，来个人说一下"是"或"不是" —— (笑笑)至少。 Q: 是的。 K: 别打瞌睡，我们将要去寻找它的可能性。 如果你说它是不可能的，那么你把这扇门关了， 那你就可以离开这里了，别坐在这儿浪费你的时间； 要是你说它是不可能的，要是你说它有可能，你也把这扇门关了； 要是你说让我找找看， 那么你就打开了它，你热切地找出。对吗？

Please this is not an intellectual game. This is not an entertainment on a Sunday morning. This is not a sermon either. I must tell you a lovely story about it. There was a preacher with his disciples and every morning he used to give a sermon for ten minutes, quarter of an hour. And all the captive audience listened to him. (Laughter). And one day he gets on the rostrum and begins - just about to begin. A bird comes along, sits on the window-sill and begins to sing. And the preacher doesn't say a word. At the end of ten minutes or five minutes, the bird, after singing, flies away. The preacher then says, 'The sermon is over for this morning'. (Laughter) Right? I wish I could say that too! (Laughter).

拜托了，这不是一场智力游戏，这不是在周日早上举行的一场娱乐节目， 这也不是一场布道。我必须给你们讲一个关于它的可爱的故事。 从前，有一个传道士和他的弟子们， 每天早上他会做十分钟的布道。 被迷住的弟子们都在台下听讲(克里用手势示意听众，听众大笑)。 有一天，他走上讲台 —— 正要开始布道的时候，一只鸟来了， 落在窗沿上开始唱歌。布道者一字不说。 十分钟过后，鸟儿唱完了，飞走了。 布道者就说到:"今天早上的布道结束。"(听众大笑) 对吧？我希望自己也能这么说! (听众大笑)

So the question now is, if you are serious enough to go into it whether it is possible to empty totally the whole content of ourselves, the content of our consciousness, this consciousness which has been built through time. Is it not possible - just please listen to it - is it not possible to end one of the contents of your consciousness, your hurt, your psychological wound?

因此现在的这个问题是，如果你足够地严肃地走进它， 有没有可能彻底地清空我们自己的整个内容？ 我们意识中的内容，这个被时间堆砌而成的意识。 它有可能吗？—— 请听它 —— 有没有可能 结束你意识中的某一个内容：你的伤害，你心理上的那个伤害。

Surely you know what that means. Most of us psychologically have been hurt from childhood parents, school, you know, whole existence - we are hurt. That is part of your consciousness. Can you end that hurt completely, totally wipe it out without leaving a mark? You can, can't you? If you pay attention to the wound, know what has caused it and the wound is the image you have about yourself that has been wounded, and end that image that is wounded - you can do that if you have gone into it very, very deeply.

当然，你清楚那其中的意思。我们大多数人在心理上，从小就受到了伤害 —— 来自于父母、学校、你知道，整个大环境 —— 我们被伤害了。 那是你意识中的一部分。你能彻底地结束那个伤害吗？ 完全地扫除，不留下丝毫的痕迹？ 你能，你不能吗？如果你注意这个伤害，知道引起它的根源， 这个伤害是这个画面，画面中的你被伤害了， 结束那个受伤的画面 —— 你能做到，如果你走进去，非常地深入它。

Or if you are attached to somebody, if you are attached to your wife or your husband, it doesn't matter what it is, attached to a belief, to a country, to a sect, to a group of people and so on, to Jesus and so on, can you not completely, logically, sanely, rationally end it? Because you see attachment implies jealousy, anxiety, fear, pain, and having pain you become more and more and more attached - seeing the nature of attachment, the perception of attachment is the flowering of intelligence. That intelligence says, how stupid to be attached - it is finished. You understand this?

或许，你可能依恋某个人，如果你依恋你的妻子或你的丈夫， 不管是谁都没关系，依恋某个信仰、某个国家、某个教派、 某个团体、耶稣等等， 你能不能完全地、逻辑地、正常地、理性地结束它？ 因为你看到依恋意味着嫉妒、焦虑、恐惧、痛苦， 在那痛苦中，你越来越深地陷入依恋之中 —— 看到依恋的这种性质，感知依恋，就是智慧的绽放。 那个智慧说，去依恋是多么地愚蠢 —— 它被终结了。 你理解这一点吗？

So go into it. Or you have a particular psychological habit, thinking always in a certain direction. That is part of your consciousness. Can thought move away from the groove, from the rut? Of course it can. So it is possible - please listen - it is possible to empty totally, completely the content.

因此，走进它。或许，你有一个特别的心理习惯， 以特定的方式思考。那是你意识的一部分。 思想能从这个窠臼，从这辙迹中脱离吗？ 当然它能。因此，它是可能的 —— 请听 —— 有可能完全地、彻底地清空这个内容。

Now if you do it one by one, that is, attachment, your hurts, your anxiety and so on, it will take infinite time. See what is involved if you do it one by one, it will take time. So you are caught in time again. I wonder if you see this. Whereas is it possible to empty it without involving time instantly, as a whole, not parts? No, I'll show it to you, don't shake your head, or agree or disagree!

现在，如果你一个一个地去做。那就是：依恋、你的伤害、你的焦虑等等， 它会花掉无限的时间。看，什么东西卷进来了？如果你一个一个地做，它需要花费时间。 因此你又被时间抓住了。我怀疑你是否看到了这点。 然而，有可能立刻清空它吗？—— 不让时间插足，作为一个整体，而不是某个部分。 不，我会展示给你，别摇晃你的脑袋、别同意，或者不同意。

Do you understand my question? When you do part by part you are still involved in time. If you realise that, if you really see the truth of it then you won't do it partially. Right? Naturally. Then you move to a different question which is can it be done in its entirety? That is, is there an observation of this consciousness which is not mine really, it is not my particular consciousness, it is the universal consciousness.

你理解我的问题吗？当你一部分一部分地做，你依然陷入到时间之内。 如果你意识那，如果你真地看见它的真实性， 那么你就不会部分地做它。对吗？这是自然地。那么你移动到一个不同的问题上： 它能被作为一个整体而做掉吗？ 那就是说，在这意识中，有没有一种观察，一种真地不属于我的观照， 它不是我的某个特别的意识，它是这个普遍的意识。

My consciousness is like your consciousness, or somebody else's consciousness, because we suffer, we go through agony, etc., etc. There may be a few who have said 'Out' - they have flowered out, gone beyond. That is irrelevant.

我的意识如同你的意识，或其某个人的意识， 因为我们受苦，我们经历极大的苦痛，等等，等等。 也许有少数人曾说过‘出去’ —— 他们已经开花了，走出去了。 那是不相干的。

So we are asking: is it possible to observe the thing in its entirety, wholly, and in the very observation of that totality the ending of it? You understand my question? So is it possible to observe your hurt, or your anxiety, or your guilt or whatever it is, totally?

因此我们问：有可能观照这个东西，完整地观照它里面的一切， 见到它的整体，结束它？你理解我的问题吗？ 因此，能不能完整地观看你的伤害，或你的焦虑，或你的内疚，或管它是什么？

You understand my question? Suppose I have guilt. I feel guilty - which I don't, but suppose I do. Can I look at that guilt, how it arose, what was the reason for it and how I am dreading further, and so on - the entire structure of guilt, can I observe it wholly?

你理解我的问题吗？假如我有罪。 我感到内疚 —— 我没有，但是假如我有。我能观看那个内疚： 它怎样地升起，它的起因是什么，我是怎样地恐惧，等等。 —— 内疚的整个结构，我能完整地观见它吗？

Of course you can - no? You can observe it only wholly when you are aware of the nature of being hurt. You can be aware of it and the guilt and so on, all the various things that we have collected, you can be aware of it if there is no direction or motive involved in that awareness. Capito? Have you understood this? I'll explain, I'll go into it.

当然你能 —— 不能？ 你能完整地看见它，只有当你意识到受伤的性质时。 你能意识到它和这个内疚，等等， 我们收集的所有那些的玩意儿，你能意识到它， 如果在那意识之中，没有方向或动机。 理解吗？你已经理解这吗？ 我会说明，我会进入它。

Suppose I am attached to something or somebody can I not observe what are the consequences of attachment, what is involved in attachment, how that attachment arose, can't I observe the whole nature of it instantly? I am attached because I am lonely, I want comfort, I want to depend on somebody because I can't stand by myself. I need companionship, I need somebody to tell me you are doing very well, old boy. I need somebody to hold my hand, I am depressed, I am anxious. So I depend on somebody and out of that dependence arises attachment and from that attachment arises fear, jealousy, anxiety. Right? Can't I observe the whole nature of it instantly? Of course you can if you are aware, if you are deeply interested to find out.

假如我依恋某东西或某个人， 难道我不能看到依恋的后果、 里面所牵扯的内容、它怎么升起， 难道我不能立刻地看见依恋的所有性质吗？ 我依恋，因为我孤独，我想要安逸，我想要依靠某个人 因为我自己不能独立。 我需要陪伴，我需要有人告诉我，你做得很好，老男孩， 我需要某人握住我的手，我受压抑，我焦虑。 因此我依靠某个人，在这依靠中，滋生出依恋， 从依恋中滋生出恐惧、嫉妒、焦虑。对吗？ 难道我不能立刻见到它的所有性质吗？ 你当然能，如果你意识到，如果你有很深的兴趣去找见。

So we are saying that instead of doing it piecemeal by piecemeal, it is possible to see the whole nature and the structure and the movement of consciousness with all its content. The content makes up the consciousness, and to see it entirely is possible. And when you see the entirety of it, it disintegrates.

因此我们说，不再一点一点地做， 是有可能看见它的整个性质和结构、 这个意识的运动，以及它里面的整个内容。 这个内容组成了这个意识，看见它的整个是有可能的。 当你看到它的整体，它就崩塌了。

The question then is - we are asking this question as the content is part of our daily life of our consciousness, and that consciousness is the accumulation through time, whether that time can stop, which means is there an ending of all the struggles, you know, all the rest of it, instantly? We say it is possible. I have shown it to you. It has been shown through examples.

那么这个问题是，我们问这个问题： 这个内容作为我们意识到的日常生活的一部分， 那个意识是由时间积累而成， 那个时间能否停下，也就是结束所有的挣扎， 你知道，里面的一切，立即地终结？ 我们说它是可能的。我已经向你展示了。 它通过举例而展示。

That is, to have a complete insight into the whole nature of consciousness. Right? Insight means, implies without any motive, without any remembrance, just to have instant perception of the nature of consciousness and that very insight dissolves the problem. I'm sorry if you have... You have understood this, somewhat?

那就是，完整地照见意识的整个性质。 对吗？观照意味着没有任何动机，没有任何记忆， 唯有即刻地感知意识的这种性质， 正是那观照消解了这个问题。 对不起，如果你已经…… 你理解这吗，有人吗？

Then we can go to the next thing, which is we are occupied with measure. Right? I am tall, I am short. I must be different from what I am. Measure - you understand? - which is comparison, following an example. Our whole technological development is based on measure. If you had no measurement there could be no technological advance. That is, knowledge is movement in measure. I know, I shall know. It is all measurement. And that measurement has moved into the psychological field.

那么我们就能进入下一个东西，我们被衡量所占据。对吗？ 我高，我矮，我必须和现在的我不一样。 衡量 —— 你理解吗？—— 也就是比较，跟随一个模范。 我们所有的技术研发，都建立在衡量的基础上。 如果你不衡量，就没有技术的进步。 那就是说，知识是是衡量的推移 —— 我知道，我将会知道。都是衡量。 那种衡量已经进入到了心理领域。

Follow all this sir. Are you following? Q: Yes. K: Watch yourself, how it works, you can see it very simply. And so we are always comparing psychologically. Now can you end comparison, which is also the ending of time. Right? Measure means measuring myself with somebody and wanting to be like that, or not like that. The positive and the negative process is part, through comparison, of measurement. I wonder if you see? Are you getting tired? Q: No. K: Go into it for yourself, you will see.

跟上这一切，先生。你在跟着吗？ 回答: 是的。 克里: 观察你自己，它是怎么运作的，你能非常简单地看见它。 因此在内心里，我们总是在比较。 现在，你能结束比较，也就是结束时间，对吗？ 衡量意味着，用别人来衡量我，我想要成为那样的人，或者不想成为那样的人。 这种积极和消极的过程，是它的一部分，通过比较、衡量。 我怀疑你是否看到。你累了吗？ 回答: 没有。 克里: 走进你自身，你会看见。

So is it possible to live a daily life without any kind of comparison? You do compare two materials, one corduroy colour against another corduroy colour, but sychologically, inwardly to be free of comparison completely, which means to be free of measurement. Measurement is the movement of thought. So can thought come to an end? You follow all this?

因此，有可能过一种没有任何比较的日常生活呢？ 你确实需要比较两种材料: 一种布料与另一种布料的颜色； 但是在心理，在内在，彻底地摆脱比较， 也就是从衡量中解放。衡量是思想的这种推移。 因此，思想能走到尽头吗？你跟上这一切了吗？

You see most of us try to stop thinking - try to, which is impossible. You may for a second say 'I have stopped thinking', but it is forced, it is compelled, it is a form of saying 'I have measured a second when I was not thinking'. So we are asking something, which all the original real people who went into this question, who said, 'Can thought come to an end?' That is, thought born from the known - you understand? - of course knowledge is the known, which is the past, can that thought come to an end?

你看，我们中的大多数人试图停止思考 —— 试图，是不可能的。 你可能有一秒钟说：‘我停止了思考’，但它是被强制的，它受到了压迫， 它是这样的一种形式：‘我测算出，我在这一秒钟内没有思考。’ 因此我们问某个东西， 这是一切最初的、真正的人曾经走进的一个问题， 谁说：‘思想能走到尽头吗？’ 那就是，思想诞生于这个已知 —— 你理解吗？—— 显然，知识就是这已知，也就是这个过去， 那个思想能走到尽头吗？

That is, can there be freedom from the known? You understand my question? Because we are always functioning from the known and therefore we have become extraordinarily capable and imitative, comparing, and this constant endeavour to be something. Right? So can thought come to an end? Thought itself, when it is aware of itself, knows its limitation and therefore it has its place. I wonder if you are... Are you doing all this while we are talking?

那就是，能从已知中解放吗？你理解我的问题？ 因为我们总是从这个已知开始运作， 所以我们变得非凡地能干，并且善于模仿和比较， 并持续地奋斗，以成为某种人物。对吗？ 因此，思想能走到尽头吗？ 思想它自己，当它意识到它自己，知道了它的边界，因此它有它自己的位置。 我怀疑你…… 你正在这么做吗？在我们探讨的时候。

So we have talked about measurement, control, the importance of the senses and their right place - all this is part of meditation. And we are asking next when one has come to a certain point, the senses can develop extra sensory perception because they become extraordinarily sensitive - telepathy, read other people's thoughts, control, various forms of clairvoyance and so on and so on.

因此，我们探讨了衡量，控制，感官的重要性 以及他们恰当的位置 —— 这一切都是冥想的一部分。 我们继续问: 当一个人到达某个特定的点， 这些感官们能够开发出特别的感知， 因为它们变得异常的敏感 —— 传心术，读他人的思想，控制，各种形式的千里眼，等等，等等。

They are still within the field of the senses. Right? So they have not this colossal importance that man is giving to them. Right? I wonder if you see this. The speaker has been through all this. Forgive me for entering personally, one has been through all this and one sees the danger of it, caught in all that sensory excitement, all that. It is stupid. So though these things there are definitely, but they are irrelevant.

但他们仍然在感觉的领域内。对吗？ 因此人不必赋予他们巨大的重要性。对吗？ 我怀疑你是否看到了这些。讲话人经历了这一切。 原谅我引入了私人的经历，一个人经历过所有这些， 一个人看到它的危险，被那种所有的感官刺激所捕获，各种各样的。 它是愚蠢的。 因此，纵然这些东西确切地存在，但他们是无关紧要的。

We are asking now another question which is man is always seeking power. Right? The politicians, the priests, the everyday man and woman wants to dominate, wants to control, wants to possess. Power has become extraordinarily important. The two super powers. That means power in the hands of the few, to dictate what others should think - the Christian Church has done this excellently at one time. The heretics, the torture, the Inquisition and all that. Control man through propaganda, through books, through words, through images, controlling him through his fear, and reward and punishment. Any form of dissent is either tortured, expelled, concentration camps, or burnt. Right?

我们现在问另一个问题: 人总是在寻找权力。对吗？ 政客们，牧师们，每一天，男人和女人， 想去支配、控制、占据。 权力已经变得极端地重要。两个超级权力(应指当时的苏联和美国)。 那意味着权力握在少数人的手中，支配着其他人应该怎么想 —— 有一段时间，基督教做得很出色。 对异教徒折磨、审讯等等那一切。 通过宣传、书籍、言语、图像来控制人， 通过他的恐惧、奖赏和惩罚来控制他。 对持有任何形式的异议的人，要么被折磨、被驱逐，要么被关押到集中营，或被烧死。对吗？

This is the history of man's stupidity, though he calls it patriotic, religious. Now we are asking: is it possible to live without any sense of power? You understand what I am saying? Are you following all this, interested in all this? Which means, can you live in total anonymity and total humility? You may have a name, you may write a book, or talk, like we're doing, and be somewhat famous, notorious, whatever word you like to use, but nothing behind it. So you are not seeking power through clairvoyance, through telepathy, all this can be used by governments, to control the captain in the submarine - they are all experimenting with all this - for god's sake be aware of all this.

这是人类的愚蠢史，尽管他称之为爱国运动，宗教运动。 现在我们问: 可能过一种没有丝毫权力感的生活吗？ 你理解我在说什么吗？ 你跟上这一切了吗，对这一切感兴趣吗？ 它意味着，你能生活在全然的匿名和全然的谦虚中吗？ 你可能有名字，可能写一本书，或讲话，正如我们现在做的， 你可能有些名气，臭名昭著 —— 随便你们怎么去形容 —— 但它的背后什么都没有。 因此你不会通过千里眼，通过传心术去寻求权力， 所有这些都能够被政府利用，控制潜艇内的指挥官 —— 他们全都在试验这一切 —— 看在老天的份上，请意识到这一切吧！

And can one live without any sense of power? You know there is great beauty in that, to be totally anonymous. And the whole world is seeking identity, power, position.

一个人能没有丝毫的权力感地生活吗？ 你知道那里有巨大的美，处于完全地匿名。 全世界正在追寻认同、权力、地位。

Now the next question is: can the brain - please listen to this - can the brain, which is millions and millions of years old, so heavily conditioned, so full of all that man has collected through centuries, and therefore it is acting mechanically all the time, can that brain be free from the known, and can that brain never, never get old - old in the sense physically?

现在，下一个问题是: 那颗大脑能 —— 请听这 —— 那颗大脑，已有百万年的高龄， 被限制得如此地沉重，塞满了人在无数个世纪所收集的一切， 因而它一直在机械性地行动， 那颗大脑能从这个已知中解脱吗？ 那颗大脑能永远，永远不变老吗？—— 生理上的那种老的感觉。

You understand what I am talking about? Don't you ask these questions? Do you? Perhaps you do when you get old, when you are somewhat decrepit, when you have lost your capacity to think, you are losing your memory and then you say, 'My god, I wish I could go back and be young again, to have a fresh mind, a young mind, a decisive mind' - don't you ask this sometimes?

你理解我在说什么吗？你没有问过这些问题吗？你问过？ 也许当你老了，当你衰弱了， 当你失去了思考的能力， 开始失去记忆的时候，你会说： “天啊，我希望我能回到过去，再次年青， 拥有一个清晰的头脑，年青的头脑，果断的头脑。” —— 难道你没有问过吗？

Whether this brain can lose its burden and be free and never deteriorate. Don't say 'Yes' or 'No', find out. Which means - please listen if you want to, are interested in this - which means never psychologically register anything. Right? Do you understand? Never to register the flattery, the insult, the various forms of impositions, pressures, never. To keep the tape completely fresh. Then it is young.

那颗头脑能否丢掉它的负担，并获得自由，不再腐化？ 不要说 "能"或"不能"，去找。那意味着， —— 请听，如果你对这有兴趣， —— 它意味着，在心理上，绝不记录任何的东西。 对吗？你理解吗？从不记录阿谀、侮辱之类的 各种形式的要求、压力，绝不！ 保持磁带完全的新，那它就是年青。

Innocence means a brain that has never been wounded. Right? That is innocence, that knows no misery, conflict, sorrow, pain, all that, which is all registered in the brain and therefore it is always limited, old, as it grows physically older. Whereas if there is no recording whatsoever, psychologically, then the brain becomes extraordinarily quiet, extraordinarily fresh. This is not a hope, this is not a reward (laughs), either you do it and discover it, or you just accept words and say, 'How marvellous that must be' - 'I wish I could experience that' - and you are off the mark. Whereas if you do it you will find out.

天真意味着一颗从来没有被伤害的大脑。对吗？ 那就是天真，不知道悲伤、冲突、痛苦，那一切， 也就是大脑里的记录， 因此它总是被限制，变老，随着身体的成长而更加衰老。 然而，如果在心理上不记录任何东西， 那么这颗大脑变得异常的安静，异常的清新。 这不是一个希望，这不是一种奖赏，(笑声) 你要么这样做，发现它； 要么接受文字，说‘那必定很神奇’ —— ‘我希望我能体验那’ —— 那你就错失了。 然而如果你做它，你就能找出。