AT ANY SPEED there was always dust, fine and penetrating, and it poured into the car. Though it was early in the morning and the sun wouldn't be up for an hour or two, there was already a dry, crisp heat which was not too unpleasant. Even at that hour there were bullock carts on the road. The drivers were asleep, but the oxen, keeping to the road, were going slowly back to their village. Sometimes there would be two or three carts, sometimes ten, and once there were twenty five a long line of them with all the drivers asleep and a single kerosene lamp on the leading cart. The car had to go off the road to pass them, raising mountains of dust, and the oxen, their bells ringing rhythmically, never swerved.
在任何的速度下，总是有灰尘，细腻而具有穿透性，涌入汽车里。 虽然是清晨，太阳一两个小时都不会升起， 但已经有一种干燥、轻脆的热量，并不太令人不适。 即使在那个时候，路上也有牛车。 司机们睡着了，但那些牛一直走在路上，慢慢地回到了他们的村庄。 有时会有两三辆，有时是十辆， 一旦有二十五辆，就会排成一长串的车队，所有的司机都睡着了， 领头的车上有一盏煤油灯。 汽车不得不给他们让路，靠路边行驶，扬起了堆积如山的灰尘， 而牛群，他们的铃声有节奏地响起，从不偏离。
It was still rather dark after an hour of steady driving. The trees were dark, mysterious and withdrawn. The road was now paved but narrow, and every cart meant more dust, more tinkling of bells, and still more carts ahead. We were going due east, and soon there was the beginning of dawn, opaque, soft and shadowless. It was not a clear dawn, bright with sparkling dew, but one of those mornings which are rather heavy with the coming heat. Yet how beautiful it was! Far away were the mountains; they could not yet be seen, but one felt they were there, immense, cool and time free.
经过一个小时的平稳驾驶，天仍然相当黑暗。 树木是黑暗的、神秘的和隐匿的。 这条路现在已经铺好了，但很窄，每一辆牛车都意味着更多的灰尘，更多铃铛的叮叮当当， 前方还有更多的牛车。我们正在往东， 黎明很快降临，不透明的、柔软的、无阴影的。 它不是一个晴朗的黎明，没有晶莹的露珠， 而是那种将会有一个相当严重的炎热天气的早晨。 然而，它是多么美丽！远方是山脉。 还看不见它们，但人感觉到它们在那里，巨大，凉爽，永恒。
The road passed through every kind of village, some clean, orderly and well kept, others filthy and rotting with hopeless poverty and degradation. Men were going off to the fields, women to the well, and the children were shouting and laughing in the streets. There were miles of government farms, with tractors, fish ponds, and experimental agricultural schools. A powerful new car passed by, laden with wealthy, well fed people. The mountains were still far away, and the earth was rich. In several places the road went through a dry river bed where it was no longer a road, but the buses and carts had made a way across. The parrots, green and red, called to each other in their crazy flight; there were also smaller birds, gold and green, and the white ricebirds.
这条路穿过了每一种村庄，有整洁的，有序的，维护得很好的， 也有肮脏的，腐败的，带着无望的贫困与堕落。 男人们去田里，女人们去井边， 而孩子们在街上大喊大叫大笑。 有数英里的政府农场，那里有拖拉机、鱼塘和实验性农业学校。 一辆强劲的新车经过，满载着富有的、吃得好的人。 山还很远，大地很富饶。 在几个地方，这条路穿过一条干涸的河床， 那里不再是一条路，但公共汽车和手推车已经穿过。 绿鹦鹉和红鹦鹉在疯狂的飞行中互相呼唤； 还有较小的鸟类，金色和绿色，以及白色的稻鸟。
Now the road was leaving the plains and beginning to ascend. The thick vegetation in the foothills was being cleared away with bulldozers, and miles of fruit trees were being planted. The car continued to climb as the hills became mountains covered with chestnut and pine trees, the pines slender and straight and the chestnuts heavy with bloom. The view was opening now, measureless valleys stretching away below, and ahead were the snowy peaks.
现在，这条路离开了平原，开始攀升。 山麓茂密的植被正在被推土机清除， 数英里的果树正在种植。 汽车继续攀爬，山丘变成了覆盖着栗子和松树的山脉， 松树细长而笔直，栗子花盛开。 现在视野开阔了，下面是一望无际的山谷， 前方是白雪皑皑的山峰。
At last we rounded a bend at the summit of the climb, and there stood the mountains, clear and dazzling. They were sixty miles away, with a vast blue valley between them and us. Stretching for over two hundred miles, they filled the horizon from end to end, and with a turn of the head we could see from one end to the other. It was a marvellous sight. The intervening sixty miles seemed to disappear, and there was only that strength and solitude. Those peaks, some of them rising over 25,000 feet, had divine names, for the gods lived there, and men came to them from great distances on pilgrimages, to worship and to die.
最后，我们在攀登的山顶上绕了一个弯， 那里矗立着山脉，清澈而耀眼。 他们相距六十英里，他们和我们之间有一个巨大的蓝色山谷。 它们绵延两百多英里， 从头到尾铺满了地平线， 扭头一看，我们可以从一端看到另一端。 这是一个奇妙的景象。 中间的六十英里似乎消失了， 只有那种力量和寂寥。 这些山峰，其中一些超过25,000英尺， 拥有神圣的名字，因为众神住在那里， 人们从很远的地方来到朝圣、崇拜他们，并死亡。
He had been educated abroad, he said and had held a good position with the government; but over twenty years ago he had made the decision to give up this position and the ways of the world in order to spend the remaining days of his life in meditation. "I practiced various methods of meditation," he went on, "till I had complete control of my thoughts, and this has brought with it certain powers and domination over myself. However, a friend took me to one of your talks in which you answered a question on meditation, saying that as generally practiced meditation was a form of self-hypnosis, a cultivation of self-projected desires, however refined. This struck me as being so true that I sought out this conversation with you; and considering that I have given my life to meditation, I hope we can go into the matter rather deeply.
他说，他在国外接受教育，并在政府中担任过良好的职务。 但二十多年前， 他决定放弃这个职位和世界的生活方式， 以便在冥想中度过他生命中剩下的日子。 “我练习了各种冥想方法，” 他接着说， “直到我完全控制自己的思想， 这带来了一些力量和对自己的支配。 然而，一位朋友带我去看了你的一个讲话， 你在其中回答了一个关于冥想的问题， 说道，通常的冥想练习是一种自我催眠的形式， 一种对自我投射出的欲望的培养，无论它有多么地精致。 这让我感到非常的真实，以至于我寻求与你进行这次对话。 考虑到我已经把我的生命献给了冥想， 我希望我们可以更深入地探讨这个问题。
"I would like to begin by explaining somewhat the course of my development. I realized from everything I had read that it was necessary to be completely the master of one's thoughts. This was extremely difficult for me. Concentration on official work was something wholly different from steadying the mind and harnessing the whole process of thought. According to the books, one had to have all the reins of controlled thought in one's hand. Thought could not be sharpened to penetrate into the many illusions unless it was controlled and directed; so that was my first task."
“我想首先解释一下我的发展过程。 我从所读到的一切中意识到， 有必要完全成为一个人思想的主人。 这对我来说非常困难。 专注于政府工作 与稳定头脑和驾驭整个思考过程完全地不同。 根据这些书籍，一个人必须把头脑中所有驾驭思想的缰绳都握在自己手中。 思想不能被磨砺，以刺穿许多幻觉， 除非它被控制和引导；所以这是我的首要任务。”
If one may ask without breaking into your narration, is control of thought the first task? "I heard what you said in your talk about concentration, but if I may I would like as far as possible to describe my whole experience and then take up certain vital issues connected with it."
如果有人可以在不打断你叙述的情况下问，控制思想是首要任务吗？ “我听到了你在谈到集中注意力时所说的话， 但如果可以的话，我想尽可能地描述我的整个经历， 然后讨论与之相关的某些重要问题。”
Just as you like, sir. "From the very beginning I was dissatisfied with my occupation, and it was a comparatively easy matter to drop a promising career. I had read a great many books on meditation and contemplation, including the writings of the various mystics both here and in the West, and it seemed obvious to me that control of thought was the most important thing. This demanded considerable effort, sustained and purposive. As I progressed in meditation I had many experiences, visions of Krishna, of Christ, and of some of the Hindu saints. I became clairvoyant and began to read people's thoughts, and acquired certain other sidhis or powers. I went from experience to experience, from one vision, with its symbolic significance, to another, from despair to the highest form of bliss. I had the pride of a conqueror, of one who was the master of himself.
随你的喜好，先生。 “从一开始我就对自己的职业不满意， 放弃一个有前途的职业是一件相对容易的事情。 我读过很多关于冥想和沉思的书， 包括这里和西方各种神秘主义者的著作， 在我看来，控制思想是最重要的事情。 这需要作出相当大的努力，持续和有目的性。 随着我在冥想中的进步，我有很多体验， 克里须那、基督和一些印度教圣徒的异象。 我变得具有千里眼，开始阅读人们的思想， 并获得了某些其他的智慧或力量。 我从一个体验到另一个体验， 从一个具有象征意义的愿景到另一个愿景， 从绝望到最高形式的快乐。 我有征服者的骄傲，一个他自己的主人的骄傲。”
Asceticism, the mastery of oneself, does give a sense of power, and it breeds vanity, strength and self-confidence. I was in the rich fullness of all that. Though I had heard of you for many years, the pride in my achievement had always prevented me from coming to listen to you; but my friend, another sannyasi, insisted that I should come, and what I heard has disturbed me. I had previously thought that I was beyond all disturbance! This briefly has been my history in meditation.
苦行主义，对自己的掌握， 确实给人一种权力感，它滋生出虚荣心、力量和自信。 我沉浸在这一切的丰富充实中。 虽然我听说过你很多年， 但对自己成就的自豪感一直阻挡我来听你说话。 但我的朋友，另一个桑雅生， 坚持要我来，我听到的一切让我感到不安。 我以前以为我已经超越了所有的干扰！ 这就是我在冥想中的简要历史。
"You said in your talk that the mind must go beyond all experience, otherwise it is imprisoned in its own projections, in its own desires and pursuits, and I was deeply surprised to find that my mind was caught up in these very things. Being conscious of this fact, how is the mind to break down the walls of the prison it has built around itself? Have these twenty years and more been wasted? Has it all been a mere wandering in illusion?".
“你在讲话中说过， 头脑必须超越一切体验，否则它就会被禁锢在自己的投射中， 禁锢在自己的欲望和追求中，我深感惊讶地发现， 我的头脑被这些东西所困。 意识到这一事实， 头脑如何打破那围绕着自己所建造的监狱的墙壁呢？ 这二十年多被浪费了吗？ 这一切都只是在幻觉中徘徊吗？”
What action should take place can presently be talked over, but let us consider, if you will, the control of thought. Is this control necessary? Is it beneficial or harmful? Various religious teachers have advocated the control of thought as the primary step, but are they right? Who is this controller? Is he not part of that very thought which he is trying to control? He may think of himself as being separate, different from thought, but is he not the outcome of thought? Surely control implies the coercive action of will to subjugate, to suppress, to dominate, to build up resistance against what is not desired. In this whole process there is vast and miserable conflict, is there not? Can any good come out of conflict?
应该采取什么行动，现在就可以讨论， 但如果你愿意，让我们考虑一下对思想的控制。 这种控制是否必要？它是有益的还是有害的？ 各种宗教老师都在鼓吹，把思想控制作为主要步骤， 但他们对吗？这个控制者是谁？ 难道他不是他试图控制的思想的一部分吗？ 他可能认为自己是分离的，与思想不同， 但他不是思想的产物吗？ 当然，控制意味着意志的强制行为， 去征服、压制、支配，去建立防御以抵抗不想要的东西。 在这整个过程中，存在着巨大而悲惨的冲突，不是吗？ 冲突能带来好处吗？
Concentration in meditation is a form of self-centred improvement, it emphasizes action within the boundaries of the self, the ego, the 'me'. Concentration is a process of narrowing down thought. A child is absorbed in its toy. The toy, the image, the symbol, the word, arrests the restless wanderings of the mind, and such absorption is called concentration. The mind is taken over by the image, by the object, external or inward. The image or the object is then all important, and not the understanding of the mind itself. Concentration on something is comparatively easy. The toy does absorb the mind but it does not free the mind to explore, to discover what is, if there is anything, beyond its own frontiers.
冥想中的专注是一种以自我为中心的改进形式， 它强调在自我，在“我”的边界内采取行动。 专注是一个缩小思考范围的过程。 一个孩子被它的玩具所吸引。 玩具、图像、符号、文字，吸引了那个无休止的躁动的头脑， 这种吸引被称之为专注。 头脑被外在或内在的形象、玩具所接管。 因此，形象或玩具变得很重要，而不是对头脑本身的理解。 专注于某个东西，是相对容易的。 玩具确实吸引了头脑，但它并没有解放头脑，让它去探索， 去发现真实：是否有某种超越它自己边界的东西。
"What you say is so different from what one has read or been taught, yet it appears to be true and I am beginning to understand the implications of control. But how can the mind be free without discipline?"
“你说的话与一个人读过或被教过的东西有很大的不同， 但它似乎是真的，我开始理解了控制的含义。 但是，没有纪律，头脑怎么能自由呢？”
Suppression and conformity are not the steps that lead to freedom. The first step towards freedom is the understanding of bondage. Discipline does shape behaviour and mould thought to the desired pattern, but without understanding desire, mere control or discipline perverts thought; whereas, when there is an awareness of the ways of desire, that awareness brings clarity and order. After all, sir, concentration is the way of desire. A man of business is concentrated because he wants to amass wealth or power, and when another concentrates in meditation, he also is after achievement, reward. Both are pursuing success, which yields self confidence and the feeling of being secure. This is so, is it not?
压制和服从不是导向自由的步伐。 迈向自由的第一步是对束缚的理解。 纪律确实塑造了行为，并将思想塑造成想要的模式， 但是如果不理解欲望，仅仅去控制或管制，就会扭曲思想； 然而，当意识到欲望的方式时， 那种意识会带来清晰和秩序。 毕竟，先生，专注是欲望的方式。 一个有商业头脑的人之所以专注，是因为他想积累财富或权力， 而另一个人专注于冥想时，他也追求成就、奖励。 两者都追求成功，这会产生自信和安全感。 就是这样，不是吗？
"I follow what you are explaining, sir."
“我理解了你的解释，先生。”
Verbal comprehension alone, which is an intellectual grasp of what is heard, has little value, don't you think? The liberating factor is never a mere verbal comprehension but the perception of the truth or the falseness of the matter. If we can understand the implications of concentration and see the false as the false, then there is freedom from the desire to achieve, to experience, to become. From this comes attention, which is wholly different from concentration. Concentration implies a dual process, a choice, an effort, does it not? There is the maker of effort and the end towards which effort is made. So concentration strengthens the 'I', the self, the ego as the maker of effort, the conqueror, the virtuous one. But in attention this dual activity is not present; there is an absence of the experiencer, the one who gathers, stores and repeats. In this state of attention the conflict of achievement and the fear of failure have ceased.
单纯的言语上的理解，是对所听到内容的智力理解， 没有什么价值，你不觉得吗？ 解放的因子，从来不是单纯的言语上的理解， 而是对事物的真实性或虚假性的感知。 如果我们能理解专注的含义， 把假看成假， 那么就有了从达成、体验、成为的欲望中解脱出来的自由。 由此而来的是关注，这与专注完全不同。 专注意味着一个二元过程，一种选择，一种努力，不是吗？ 有努力的制造者和努力的终点。 因此，专注强化了“我”，自我， 自我就是努力的创造者、征服者、美德者。 但是在关注中，这种二元活动并不存在； 没有体验者，没有收集、存储和重复的人。 在这种关注状态，达成的冲突和对失败的恐惧已经消逝。
"But unfortunately not all of us are blessed with that power of attention."
“但不幸的是，并不是所有人都有幸拥有这种关注的力量。”
It is not a gift, it is not a reward, a thing to be purchased through discipline, practice, and so on. It comes into being with the understanding of desire, which is self-knowledge. This state of attention is the good, the absence of the self. "Is all my effort and discipline of many years utterly wasted and of no value at all? Even as I ask this question I am beginning to see the truth of the matter. I see now that for over twenty years I have pursued a way that has inevitably led to a self-created prison in which I have lived, experienced and suffered. To weep over the past is self-indulgence and one must begin again with a different spirit. But what about all the visions and experiences? Are they also false, worthless?"
它不是一种天赋，不是一个奖赏， 不是要通过纪律、修行等等来购买的东西。 它是随着对欲望的理解而显露，也就是自我认识。 这种关注的状态即是善，是自我的缺席。 “我多年的努力和纪律都完全白费了，根本没有价值吗？ 就在我问这个问题的时候，我开始看到事情的真相。 我现在看到，二十多年来，我一直在追求一种方式， 这种方式不可避免地导致了一个自我建造的监狱， 我在那里生活，经历和受苦。 为过去哭泣是自我放纵，一个人必须以不同的精神重新开始。 但是，所有的异象和经历呢？ 它们也是假的，毫无价值的吗？”
Is not the mind, sir, a vast storehouse of all the experiences, visions and thoughts of man? The mind is the result of many thousands of years of tradition and experience. It is capable of fantastic inventions, from the simplest to the most complex. It is capable of extraordinary delusions and of vast perceptions. The experiences and hopes, the anxieties, joys and accumulated knowledge of both the collective and the individual are all there, stored away in the deeper layers of consciousness, and one can relive the inherited or acquired experiences, visions, and so on. We are told of certain drugs that can bring clarity, a vision of the depths and the heights, that can free the mind from its turmoils, giving it great energy and insight. But must the mind travel through all these dark and hidden passages to come to the light? And when through any of these means it does come to the light, is that the light of the eternal? Or is it the light of the known, the recognized, a thing born of search, struggle hope? Must one go through this weary process to find that which is not measurable? Can we bypass all this and come upon that which may be called love? Since you have had visions, powers, experiences, what do you say, sir?
先生，头脑不就是人类所有的体验、印象和思想的庞大宝库吗？ 头脑是数千年传统和体验的结果。 它能够进行从最简单到最复杂的奇妙发明。 它能够产生非凡的幻想和广泛的感知。 集体和个人的体验和希望、焦虑、喜悦和积累的知识都在那里， 储存在意识的更深层里， 人们可以重温、继承或获得的体验，印象等等。 我们被告知某些药物可以带来清晰，有深度和高度的视野， 可以将头脑从骚乱中解放，给它巨大的能量和洞察力。 但是，头脑必须穿过所有这些黑暗和隐匿的通道才能走向光明呢？ 当通过这些手段中的任何一种到达光明时， 那是永恒的光明吗？ 还是一种已知的、认识的、源于搜索、挣扎的希望之光？ 一个人必须经历这个疲惫的过程才能找到无法衡量的东西吗？ 我们能绕过这一切，遇到那个被称之为‘爱’的东西吗？ 既然你有异象、力量、体验，你会怎么说，先生？
"While they lasted I naturally thought they were important and had significance; they gave me a satisfying sense of power, a certain happiness in gratifying achievement. When the various powers come they give one great confidence in oneself, a feeling of self-mastery in which there is an overwhelming pride. Now, after talking all this over, I am not at all sure that these visions, and so on, have such great meaning for me as they once had. They seem to have receded in the light of my own understanding."
“虽然它们持续了很长时间，但我自然而然地认为它们很重要，而且意义重大。 他们给了我一种令人满意的权力感，一种令人满意的成就的快感。 当各种力量到来时，他们会给自己带来极大的信心，一种自我掌控的感觉， 其中有一种压倒性的自豪感。 现在，在说了这些话之后，我完全不确定这些异象等等， 是否像以前那样对我有意义。 根据我自己的理解，他们似乎已经退缩了。”
Must one go through all these experiences? Are they necessary to open the door of the eternal? Can they not be bypassed? After all, what is essential is self-knowledge, which brings about a still mind. A still mind is not the product of will, of discipline, of the various practices to subjugate desire. All these practices and disciplines only strengthen the self, and virtue is then another rock on which the self can build a house of importance and respectability. The mind must be empty of the known for the unknowable to be. Without understanding the ways of the self, virtue begins to clothe itself in importance. The movement of the self, with its will and desire, its searching and accumulation, must wholly cease. Then only the timeless can come into being. It cannot be invited. The mind that seeks to invite the real through various practices, disciplines, through prayers and attitudes, can only receive its own gratifying projections, but they are not the real.
一个人必须经历所有这些体验吗？ 它们对打开永恒之门是必需的吗？难道它们不能被绕过吗？ 毕竟，最关键的是自我认识，是它带来了安宁的头脑。 一个宁静的头脑不是意志、纪律、征服欲望的各种实践的产物。 所有这些修行和纪律只会强化自我， 而美德是另一块岩石， 自我可以在这块石头上建造一座重要的和受人尊敬的房屋。 头脑必须空无一物，才能让未知发生。 如果不理解自我的方式，美德就开始打扮自己，把自己变成老子。 自我的运动，伴随着它的意志和欲望，它的寻找和积累，必须完全停下。 只有那样，永恒才能显露。 它无法被邀请。 头脑试图通过各种修行、戒律、通过祈祷和各种态度 来邀请真实， 只能得到自己满意的投影，但它们不是真实。
"I perceive now, after these many years of asceticism, discipline and self-mortification, that my mind is held in the prison of its own making, and that the walls of this prison must be broken down. How is one to set about it?"
“在经历了这么多年的苦行主义、纪律和自我折磨之后， 我现在意识到，我的头脑被关在自己制造的监狱里， 这个监狱的墙壁必须被打破。 人应该如何下手呢？”
The very awareness that they must go is enough. Any action to break them down sets in motion the desire to achieve, to gain, and so brings into being the conflict of the opposites the experiencer and the experience, the seeker and the sought. To see the false as the false is in itself enough, for that very perception frees the mind from the false.
意识到它们必须离开，就已经足够了。 任何打破它们的行为，都会激发达成和获取的欲望， 从而产生体验者和体验，追寻者和追寻物的对立面的冲突。 把假看成假，这样就足够了， 因为这种感知，就把头脑从虚假中解放出来了。