There must be a way of learning how to die. To know how to die is of tremendous importance to each one of us.

必定有一条学习如何死亡的路径。 对我们每个人来说，知道如何去死，是极其重要的。

How do the traditionalists and the professionals - and by the professionals I mean the gurus, the Sankaracharyas, the Adi Sankaracharyas, the yogis - how do they answer this question?

传统主义者和专业人士 —— 我说的专业人士是指上师、诸神、阿谛诸神、瑜伽师 —— 他们是怎么回答这个问题的？

Tradition divides life into various stages. There is Brahmacharya, a stage of celibacy, when as a student, the boy learns from a guru. The second stage is that of Grihastha, where man gets married, has children, seeks accumulation of wealth and so on. He also supports the sannyasi and the children and thereby supports society. In the third stage, the Vanaprastha, man walks out of the pursuit of worldly things and faces the stage of preparation for the final one which is Sannyasa, in which there is a giving up of name-home identity - a symbolic donning of the saffron robe.

传统把人生分为不同的阶段。 第一阶段是梵行期(Brahmacharya)，这是一个独身生活的阶段，小男孩向一位上师学习。 第二个阶段是格里哈萨期(Grihastha)，在这个阶段，男人结婚、生子、寻求财富的积累等等。他也为桑雅生、孩子们和社会提供支持。 第三阶段是瓦纳普拉斯塔(Vanaprastha)，人脱离对世俗之物的追求，进入这个预备阶段 最后一个阶段是桑纳萨(Sannyasa)，在这期间，放弃姓氏的身份 —— 穿上藏红花长袍，就象征着这个意思。

There is also a belief that at the moment of death, all man's past comes into focus. If his karma as actions within this life have been good, then that which is the last thought which remains with him at the time of death, continues. That is carried over into the next life. They also speak of the essential need for the mind to be quiet at the time of death, for the quenching of karma, for the mind to be fully awake at the moment of death.

还有一种信念，在人死亡的那一刻，他过去的一切都会浮现。 如果他此生的行为，也就是这辈子造的业，做得好， 那么，在他死的时候，他最后一个念头将保留，并延续到下一世。 他们也提到了基本的要求：在死亡的时候，这颗头脑要安静，以便于业火的熄灭， 使头脑在死亡的那一刻完全清醒。

How is dying an innate part of life? Dying is something in the future, in time.

死亡如何成为生命与生俱来的一部分？死亡是未来、时间中的事。

That is just it. We put death beyond the walls, beyond the movement of life. It is something to avoid, to evade, not to think about. The question is what is living and what is dying. The two must be together, not separate. Why have we separated the two?

正是如此。我们把死亡置于围墙之外，置于生命运动之外。 它是需要避免、逃避、不去想的东西。 问题是：什么是生，什么是死。 两者必须在一起，而不是分开。我们为什么要把它们分开？

Because death is a totally different experience from life. One does not know death.

因为死亡是一种与生活完全不同的体验。人不知道死亡。

Is it? My question is why have we separated the two; why is there this vast gulf between the two? What is the reason why human beings divide the two?

是吗？我的问题是，我们为什么要把两者分开；为什么两者之间存在着巨大的鸿沟？ 人类将两者分开的原因是什么？

Because in death, that which is manifest becomes non-manifest. Because both in birth and in death there is an essential mystery; an appearance and a disappearance.

因为在死亡中，显现的东西变成了非显现。 因为在出生和死亡中，都有一种本质的神秘；一种出现和一种消失。

Is that why we separate the two - the appearance of the child and the disappearance of the old man? Is that the reason why man has separated life from death? The organism biologically comes to an end - birth, adolescence and death - the young appearing and the old disappearing. Is that the reason? You are saying the reason for division is because there is a beginning and an ending; there is birth, childhood, maturity and death. Is that the basic reason for the fear of death? There is obviously a beginning and an ending. I was born, I will die tomorrow - there is a beginning and an ending. Why do I not accept that?

这就是我们把两者分开的原因吗——孩子的出现和老人的消失？ 这就是人类将生命与死亡分开的原因吗？ 有机体在生物学上会结束——出生、青春期和死亡——年轻人出现，老年人消失。 就是这个原因吗？你是说分裂的原因是因为有一个开始和一个结束； 有出生、童年、成熟和死亡。这是对死亡恐惧的根本原因吗？ 显然有一个开始和一个结束。 我出生了，我明天会死——有一个开始和一个结束。我为什么不接受这一点呢？

In death is involved the cessation of the "me" - of all that I have experienced. The final cessation of the "me" takes place.

死亡中涉及“我”的停止——我所经历的一切的停止。“我”的最终停止发生了。

Is that the reason for the inward division? That does not seem to be the entire reason why man has divided life from death.

这就是内在分裂的原因吗？这似乎不是人类将生命与死亡分开的全部原因。

Is it because of fear?

是因为恐惧吗？

Is it fear that makes me divide the living and the dying? Do I know what living is and what dying is?

是恐惧让我区分生与死吗？我知道什么是生、什么是死吗？

Yes.

知道。

Do I know the joy, the pleasure, that is life and do I regard dying as the ending of that? Is that the reason why we divide a movement called living and the movement called death? The movement which we call living, is it living? Or is it merely a series of sorrows, pleasures, despairs? Is that what we call living?

我知道那种喜悦、快乐就是生命吗？我把死亡视为那一切的终结吗？ 这就是我们把被称为“生”的运动和被称为“死”的运动分开的原因吗？ 我们称之为“生”的运动，它真的是生命吗？还是仅仅是一连串的悲伤、快乐、绝望？ 这就是我们所谓的生命吗？

Why do you give it special meaning?

你为什么赋予它特殊的意义？

Is there any other form of living? This is the lot of every human being. Man is afraid that this with which he had identified himself will come to an end. So he wants a continuity of this thing called life, never of ending. He wants a continuity of his sorrows, of his pleasures, miseries, confusions, conflicts. He wants the same thing to go on, that there never be an ending. And the ending of all that, he calls death. So now what is the mind doing in this? The mind is confused; it is in conflict, in despair. It is caught in pleasure, in sorrow. The mind calls that living and the mind does not want it to come to an end because it does not know what would happen if it ended. Therefore it is frightened of death. I am asking myself, is this living? Living must have quite a different meaning than this.

还有其他形式的生命吗？这是每个人的命运。 人类害怕他所认同的东西会结束。 所以他想要这个叫做生命的东西的连续性，永远不要结束。 他想要他的悲伤、快乐、痛苦、困惑、冲突的连续性。 他希望同样的事情继续下去，永远不要有结束。 而所有这些的结束，他称之为死亡。那么，头脑在这里做了什么？ 头脑困惑了；它处于冲突、绝望之中。它被困在快乐和悲伤中。 头脑称之为生命，而头脑不希望它结束， 因为它不知道如果结束了会发生什么。 因此它害怕死亡。 我问自己，这就是生命吗？生命一定有与此完全不同的意义。

Why? Why should it have a different meaning?

为什么？为什么它应该有不同意义？

Living is fulfilment, frustration, and all that is going on. My mind is used to that and has never questioned whether that is living. My mind has never said to itself why do I call this living? Is it a habit?

生命就是实现、挫折，以及正在发生的一切。 我的头脑习惯了这些，从未质疑过这是否是生命。 我的头脑从未对自己说过：我为什么把这叫做生命？这是一种习惯吗？

I really do not understand your question.

我真的不明白你的问题。

After all I must ask the question.

毕竟，我必须问这个问题。

Why should I ask?

我为什么要问？

My life, from the time I am born till I die is one eternal struggle.

我的生命，从我出生到死亡，是一场永恒的挣扎。

Living is acting, seeing, being: the whole of that is there.

生命是行动、看见、存在：这一切都在那里。

I see beauty, the sky, a lovely child. I also see conflict with my child, with my neighbours; life is a movement in conflict and pleasure.

我看到了美、天空、可爱的孩子。我也看到了与我的孩子、与邻居的冲突； 生命是冲突与快乐中的运动。

Why should I question that? The mind questions only when there is sorrow, when there is a lot of pain.

我为什么要质疑这一点？头脑只在有悲伤、有很多痛苦时才质疑。

Why not ask when you have pleasure? When there is no pleasure there is pain.

为什么不在有快乐的时候问呢？当没有快乐时，就有痛苦。

Sir, life is not a series of crises. Crises of pain are few. They are rare occasions.

先生，生命不是一连串的危机。痛苦的危机很少。它们是罕见的时刻。

But I see this is happening in life. I see it happening and therefore question this division of living and dying.

但我看到这正在生命中发生。 我看到它正在发生，因此质疑这种生与死的分裂。

You do but others do not. We see there is a division; it is a fact to us.

你这样做，但别人不这样做。我们看到存在分裂；这对我们来说是事实。

At what level, at what depth, with what significance are you making this statement? Of course it is a fact. I am born and I will die. Then there is nothing more to be said.

你在什么层面、什么深度、带着什么意义做出这个陈述？ 当然这是一个事实。我出生了，我会死去。那就没什么可说的了。

It is not enough. The very fact we have asked how to learn to die........

这还不够。我们问过如何学习去死这一事实本身就……

I say learn also how to live.

我说也要学习如何去活。

And I have listened. I have not asked that question to myself.

而我听了。我没有向自己问过那个问题。

Learn how to live. Then what happens? If I learn how to live, I also learn how to die. I want to learn how to live. I want to learn about sorrow, pleasure, pain, beauty. I learn. Because I am learning about life I am learning about death. Learning is an act of purification, not the acquiring of knowledge. Learning is purgation. I cannot learn if my mind is full. The mind must purgate itself to learn. Therefore the mind when it wants to learn has to empty itself of everything that it has known, then it can learn.

学习怎样去生活。那么，发生了什么？如果我学习怎样去生活，我也在学习怎样去死。 我想要学习生活。我想去学习悲伤、快乐、痛苦和美。 我学。因为我在学习生命的同时，就在学习死亡。 学习是一种净化的行为，不是获取知识。学习就是净化。 如果我的头脑被填满了，我就无法学习。要去学习，这颗头脑必须净化它自己。 因此，当头脑想去学习的时候，它必须清空它自己，清空它所知道的一切，然后它才能学习。

So there is the living which we all know. There has to be first of all a learning about this daily living. Now, is the mind capable of learning, not accumulating? Without understanding what is implied in the first act of learning, can it learn? What is implied? When I do not know, then my mind, not knowing, is capable of learning. Can the mind not know so that it can learn about living - living in which there is sorrow, agony, confusion, struggle? Can it come to it in a state of not knowing and so learn? Such a mind capable of learning about life is also capable of learning about death.

那么，我们大家都知道这种生活。首先得学习这种日常生活。 现在，这颗头脑有能力去学习，而不是去累积吗？ 如果不理解学习的第一步是什么，它有能力去学习吗？学习的第一个动作是什么？ 当我不知道，那么我的头脑，处于不知道的状态，就有能力去学习。 头脑能够不知道吗？ 那样它才有能力去学习这种生活 —— 这种包含了悲伤、痛苦、困惑、矛盾的生活。 它能进入一种‘不知道’的状态并由此而学习吗？ 这样的头脑有能力学习生命，也有能力学习死亡。

What is important is not the learning about something, but the act of learning. The mind can only learn when it does not know. We approach life with knowledge of life - with knowledge of cause, effect, karma. We come to life with the sense of the "I know", with conclusions and formulas and with these we fill the mind. But I do not know about death. So I want to learn about death. But I cannot learn about death. It is only when I know learning that I will understand death. Death is the emptying of the mind, of the knowledge which I have accumulated.

重要的不是学什么东西，而是学习的这种行为。 这颗头脑只有在不知道的时候，才能学习。 我们携带着知识来靠近生命 —— 带着原因、结果、业力等等知识。 我们走进生命，带着‘我知道’的感觉，带着结论、规律和那些塞进头脑里面的东西。 但是我不知道死亡。因此我想去学习什么是死亡，但是我无法学习死亡。 只有当我知道怎样去学习的时候，我才会理解死亡。 死亡就是这颗头脑的清空，清空里面的知识，那些我积攒下来的东西。

There can be learning of living in the learning about death. Deep down in human consciousness there is this nameless fear of ceasing to be.

在学习死亡的同时，能够学习生活。 在人类的意识深处，有对死亡的莫名恐惧。

The nameless fear of not being. The being is the knowing that I am this, that I am happy, that I had a marvellous time. In the same way I want to know death. I do not want to learn, I want to know. I want to know what it means to die.

对不存在的莫名恐惧。 存在就是知道这些：我是这样的人，我很快乐，我有一段奇妙的时光。 以同样的方式，我想知道死亡，我不想学习，我想知道。我想知道死亡的含义。

So that I am free of fear.

那样我就可以摆脱恐惧了。

If I do not know how to drive a car, I am frightened. The moment I know, it is over. Therefore my knowing about death is in terms of the past. Knowledge is the past, so I say I must know what it means to die so that I can live. Do you see the game you are playing upon yourself, the game which the mind is playing upon itself?

如果我不知道如何驾驶汽车，我会害怕。一旦我知道，这种害怕就结束了。 因此，我所拥有的关于死亡的知识，属于过去。 知识就是过去，因此我说，我必须知道死亡的含义，那样我就能生活。 你看见了你和你自己玩的这场游戏吗？这场头脑在和它自己玩的游戏？

The act of learning is something different from the act of knowing. You see, knowing is never in the active present. Learning is always in the active present. The learning about death - I really do not know what it means. There is no theory, no speculation that will satisfy me. I am going to find out, I am going to learn in which there is no theory, no conclusion, no hope, no speculation, but only the act of learning; therefore there is no fear of death. To find out what it means to die, learn.

学习的行为与认识的行为是不同的。 你看，认识永远不处于活跃的现在，而学习始终处于活跃的现在。 对死亡的学习 —— 我真地不知道它的含义。没有可以使我满意的理论和推测。 我要去找出，我要去学习， 在学习中，没有理论、没有结论、没有希望、没有推断，只有学习的行为； 因此，没有对死亡的恐惧。 找出什么是死亡，学习。

In the same way I really want to know what living is. So I must come to living with a fresh mind, without the burden of knowledge. The moment the mind acknowledges it knows absolutely nothing, it is free to learn. But there is nothing to learn.

同样，我真地想要知道什么是生活。 因此我必须有一个清新的头脑来生活，不携带知识的包袱。 一旦这颗头脑承认它什么都不知道，它就自由地去学习了。 但是，没有去学习任何东西。

There is absolutely nothing to learn except the technological learning how to go to the moon. Freedom of learning about what - the thing that I have called living, the thing that I have called death. I do not know what it means. Therefore there is living and dying all the time. There is no death when the mind is completely free of the known - the known being the beliefs, the experiences, the conclusions, knowledge, the saying I have suffered and so on.

根本就没有什么东西可学，除了技术上的学习，比如怎么去月球。 自由地学习‘什么’ —— 这个被我唤作生活的东西，这个被我唤作消逝的东西。 我不知道它的含义是什么。因此，总是在生活与消逝。 当这颗头脑完全从已知中解放，就没有死亡。 —— 已知就是信念、经历、结论、知识、‘我受过苦难’等等。

Intellectually we have carved life out beautifully according to our conditioning. To achieve God "I must bc celibate", "I must help the poor," "I must take a vow of poverty." Death says you cannot touch me. But I want to touch death; I want to shape it into my pattern. Death says you cannot touch me, you cannot play tricks upon me. The mind is used to tricks - the carving something out of experience. Death says you cannot experience me.

在理智上，我们根据我们的条件，雕刻出美好的生命； 为了实现上帝，‘我必须独身’，‘我必须帮助穷人’，‘我必须发誓贫穷’。 死亡说，你碰不到我。但是我想摸一下死亡；我想把它塑造成为我的模式。 死亡说，你摸不到我，你无法算计我。 这颗头脑习惯了算计 —— 凭借体验，去雕刻某个东西。 死亡说你没法体验我。

Death is an original experience in the sense that it is a state I really do not know. I can invent formulas about death - the last thought is that which manifests itself - but they are other people's thoughts. I really do not know. So I am starkly frightened. Therefore can I learn of living and therefore of dying? So deny knowing - see what takes place. In that there is real beauty, real love, the real thing takes place.

死亡是一种原始的体验，一种‘我真地不知道’的状态。 我能发明关于死亡的规律 —— 比如人死前最后一个想法显现出它本身 —— 但这些都是别人的思想。 我真地不知道。因此我被吓懵了。 那么，我能够学习生活，学习消逝吗？ 所以，否定已知 —— 看看在发生什么？那里有真实的美，真实的爱，真实的东西在发生。