Question: What do you mean by transformation?

问题：你所说的转变是什么意思？

Krishnamurti: Obviously, there must be a radical revolution. The world crisis demands it. Our lives demand it. Our everyday incidents, pursuits, anxieties, demand it. Our problems demand it. There must be a fundamental, radical revolution, because everything about us has collapsed. Though seemingly there is order, in fact there is slow decay, destruction: the wave of destruction is constantly overtaking the wave of life.

显然，必须有一场根本性的革命。 世界危机要求这样做。我们的生活需要它。 我们的日常事件、追求、焦虑，都需要它。 我们的问题需要它。 必须有一场根本的、彻底的革命，因为我们的一切都在崩溃。 虽然表面上有秩序，但实际上在缓慢的衰败、毁灭： 毁灭的浪潮在不断地追赶生命的浪潮。

So there must be a revolution - but not a revolution based on an idea. Such a revolution is merely the continuation of the idea, not a radical transformation. A revolution based on an idea brings bloodshed, disruption, chaos. Out of chaos you cannot create order; you cannot deliberately bring about chaos and hope to create order out of that chaos. You are not the God-chosen who are to create order out of confusion That is such a false way of thinking on the part of those people who wish to create more and more confusion in order to bring about order. Because for the moment they have power, they assume they know all the ways of producing order.

因此，必须有一场革命 —— 但不是一场基于想法的革命。 这样的革命只是想法的延续，而不是根本性的转变。 基于一个想法的革命会带来流血、破坏和混乱。 在混乱中，你无法创造秩序； 你不能故意制造混乱，并希望从混乱中创造秩序。 你不是上帝所拣选的，要从混乱中创造秩序的那位 某些人希望通过制造越来越多的混乱以建立秩序，这是一种错误的思考方式。 因为当他们拥有权力的那一刻，他们就自以为知道产生秩序的所有方式。

Seeing the whole of this catastrophe - the constant repetition of wars, the ceaseless conflict between classes, between peoples, the awful economic and social inequality, the inequality of capacity and gifts, the gulf between those who are extraordinarily happy, unruffled, and those who are caught in hate, conflict, and misery - seeing all this, there must be a revolution, there must be complete transformation, must there not?

看到这场灾难的整体 —— 战争的不断重复， 阶级之间、民族之间无休止的冲突， 可怕的经济和社会不平等，能力和天赋的不平等， 那些非常快乐、不慌不忙的人以及那些陷入仇恨、冲突和悲惨的人之间的鸿沟 —— 看到这一切，必需有一场革命，必须彻底转变，难道不必吗？

Is this transformation, is this radical revolution, an ultimate thing or is it from moment to moment? I know we should like it to be the ultimate thing, because it is so much easier to think in terms of far away. Ultimately we shall be transformed, ultimately we shall be happy, ultimately we shall find truth; in the meantime, let us carry on. Surely such a mind, thinking in terms of the future, is incapable of acting in the present; therefore such a mind is not seeking transformation, it is merely avoiding transformation. What do we mean by transformation?

这种转变，这种根本性的革命，是一个终极产物，还是在每时每刻？ 我知道，我们希望它会是终极的东西，因为它更容易从遥远的角度来思考。 最终我们将被转变，最终我们将快乐，最终我们将找到真理； 与此同时，让我们继续前进。 当然，这种从未来的角度来思考的头脑，在当下是无法行动的； 因此，这样的头脑不是在寻求转变，它只是在逃避转变。 我们所说的转变是什么意思？

Transformation is not in the future, can never be in the future. It can only be now, from moment to moment. So what do we mean by transformation? Surely it is very simple: seeing the false as the false and the true as the true. Seeing the truth in the false and seeing the false in that which has been accepted as the truth. Seeing the false as the false and the true as the true is transformation, because when you see something very clearly as the truth, that truth liberates.

转变不在未来，永远不可能在未来。 它只能是现在，每一时刻。因此，我们所说的转变是什么意思？ 确实，它非常简单：看见假的是假的，真的是真的。 看见虚假中的真，看见被当作真理的假。 看见假如假，真如真，即是转变， 因为当你看东西看得非常真切时，这种真切即是解放。

When you see that something is false, that false thing drops away. When you see that ceremonies are mere vain repetitions, when you see the truth of it and do not justify it, there is transformation, is there not?, because another bondage is gone. When you see that class distinction is false, that it creates conflict, creates misery, division between people - when you see the truth of it, that very truth liberates. The very perception of that truth is transformation, is it not?

当你看到某个东西是假的，假就消解了。 当你看到那种仪式仅仅是徒劳的重复， 当你看到它的真相而不为其申辩，即是转变，不是吗？ 因为另一个束缚消失了。 当你看到阶级划分是假的，是它创造出冲突，创造出悲痛，分裂了众人 —— 当你看到它的真相，那个真相即是解放。 对那个真相的感知，即是转变，不是吗？

As we are surrounded by so much that is false, perceiving the falseness from moment to moment is transformation. Truth is not cumulative. It is from moment to moment. That which is cumulative, accumulated, is memory, and through memory you can never find truth, for memory is of time - time being the past, the present and the future. Time, which is continuity, can never find that which is eternal; eternity is not continuity.

当我们被如此多的虚假所包围时，每时每刻感知虚假就是转变。 真相是无法累积的。它是一瞬的。 可累积的，被积攒的，是记忆， 通过记忆，你永远找不到真理，因为记忆从属于时间。 —— 时间就是这个过去，这个现在和这个未来。 时间，这个延续下来的东西，永远找不到永恒；永恒没有延续性。

That which endures is not eternal. Eternity is in the moment. Eternity is in the now. The now is not the reflection of the past nor the continuance of the past through the present to the future.

那持续存在的，不是永恒。 永恒在此刻。 永恒在当下。 此刻不是这个过去的反映，也不是过去通过现在而延展出的未来。

A mind which is desirous of a future transformation or looks to transformation as an ultimate end, can never find truth, for truth is a thing that must come from moment to moment, must be discovered anew; there can be no discovery through accumulation. How can you discover the new if you have the burden of the old? It is only with the cessation of that burden that you discover the new. To discover the new, the eternal, in the present, from moment to moment, one needs an extraordinarily alert mind, a mind that is not seeking a result, a mind that is not becoming.

一颗渴望未来的转变，或者把转变视为终极目标的头脑， 永远找不到真理，因为真理是时刻在发生的东西，必须重新被发现； 不可能通过积累来发现。 如果你有旧的负担，你怎么能发现新的？ 只有随着这种负担的消逝，你才能发现新的。 现在，要发现这种新，这种永恒，在每时每刻，一个人需要一颗异常警觉的头脑， 一颗不寻求结果的头脑，一颗没有成为的头脑。

A mind that is becoming can never know the full bliss of contentment; not the contentment of smug satisfaction; not the contentment of an achieved result, but the contentment that comes when the mind sees the truth in what is and the false in what is. The perception of that truth is from moment to moment; and that perception is delayed through verbalization of the moment.

一个正在成为的头脑，永远无法知道知足中的圆满祝福； 不是自鸣得意的知足； 不是对取得的成果的知足， 而是当头脑看到什么是真理，什么是虚假时，出现的知足。 对那个真理的感知是每时每刻的； 当此刻被言语化时，这种感知就被取缔了。

Transformation is not an end, a result. Transformation is not a result. Result implies residue, a cause and an effect. Where there is causation, there is bound to be effect. The effect is merely the result of your desire to be transformed. When you desire to be transformed, you are still thinking in terms of becoming; that which is becoming can never know that which is being. Truth is being from moment to moment and happiness that continues is not happiness. Happiness is that state of being which is timeless.

转变不是一个终点，一个结果。 转变不是一个结果。 结果意味着残留，一个原因和一个结果。 哪里有原因，哪里就必然有结果。 这种效果只是你渴望被转化的结果。 当你渴望被转变时，你仍然在以成为的方式思考； 正在成为的，永远无法知道那新生的。 真理，每时每刻新，那被延续的快乐不是快乐。 快乐是无时间的生命状态。

That timeless state can come only when there is a tremendous discontent - not the discontent that has found a channel through which it escapes but the discontent that has no outlet, that has no escape, that is no longer seeking fulfilment. Only then, in that state of supreme discontent, can reality come into being. That reality is not to be bought, to be sold, to be repeated; it cannot be caught in books. It has to be found from moment to moment, in the smile, in the tear, under the dead leaf, in the vagrant thoughts, in the fullness of love.

只有当存在巨大的不满时，这种无时间的状态才能到来。 —— 不是找个借口去逃避的不满 而是没有借口，没有逃避，不再寻求满足的不满。 只有那样，在那种极度不满的状态下，现实才能产生。 这个现实不是要去买的，不是要去卖的，不是要去重复的； 它不能被书本抓住。 它必须每时每刻被发现， 在微笑中，在眼泪中，在枯叶下，在流浪的思绪中，在爱的充盈中。

Love is not different from truth. Love is that state in which the thought process, as time, has completely ceased. Where love is, there is transformation. Without love, revolution has no meaning, for then revolution is merely destruction, decay, a greater and greater evermounting misery. Where there is love, there is revolution, because love is transformation from moment to moment.

爱与真理没有什么不同。 爱，就是作为时间的思想活动完全消逝的状态。 爱在哪里，哪里就有转变。 没有爱，革命就没有意义， 因为那时，革命仅仅是毁灭、腐朽，越来越深重的悲惨。 哪里有爱，哪里就有革命，因为爱是每一刻的转变。