Question: How does truth, as you have said, when repeated become a lie? What really is a lie? Why is it wrong to lie? Is not this a profound and subtle problem on all the levels of our existence?

问：正如你所说，真理在重复时，如何变成了谎言？ 谎言到底是什么？为什么撒谎是错误的？ 这难道不是我们存在于各个层面上的，一个深刻而微妙的问题吗？

Krishnamurti: There are two questions in this, so let us examine the first, which is: When a truth is repeated, how does it become a lie? What is it that we repeat? Can you repeat an understanding? I understand something. Can I repeat it? I can verbalize it, I can communicate it but the experience is not what is repeated, surely?

克里希那穆提：这里有两个问题，让我们来看看第一个问题，即： 当一个真理被重复时，它怎么会变成谎言？ 我们重复的是什么？你能重复一个理解吗？ 我理解某个东西。 我可以重复它吗？ 我可以用语言表达它，我可以交流它，但这种体验是无法被重复的，肯定的，是吗？

We get caught in the word and miss the significance of the experience. If you have had an experience, can you repeat it? You may want to repeat it, you may have the desire for its repetition, for its sensation, but once you have had an experience, it is over, it cannot be repeated. What can be repeated is the sensation and the corresponding word that gives life to that sensation. As, unfortunately, most of us are propagandists, we are caught in the repetition of the word. So we live on words, and the truth is denied.

我们陷入了这个词，并错过了这种体验的重要性。 如果你有过体验，你能重复它吗？ 你可能想重复它， 你可能渴望它的重复，渴望它的感觉， 但是一旦你有一种体验，它就结束了，它无法被重复。 可以重复的是这种感觉和赋予这种感觉以生机的这个词语。 不幸的是，由于我们大多数人都是宣传者，我们陷入了这个词的重复中。 所以我们靠文字生活，而真理却被拒绝。

Take, for example, the feeling of love. Can you repeat it? When you hear the words `Love your neighbour', is that a truth to you? It is truth only when you do love your neighbour; and that love cannot be repeated but only the word.

以爱的感觉为例。 你能重复它吗？ 当你听到“爱你的邻居”这句话时，那对你来说是一个真理吗？ 只有当你爱你的邻居时，它才是真理； 那种爱不能重复，能重复的只是这个词。

Yet most of us are happy, content, with the repetition, `Love your neighbour' or `Don't be greedy'. So the truth of another, or an actual experience which you have had, merely through repetition, does not become a reality. On the contrary, repetition prevents reality. Merely repeating certain ideas is not reality.

然而，我们大多数人都在重复“爱你的邻居”或“不要贪婪”，并为此而感到快乐、满足。 因此，别人的真理，或者你有过的真实的体验，仅仅通过重复，不会成为一种现实。 相反，重复阻碍了现实。 仅仅重复某些想法，是不现实的。

The difficulty in this is to understand the question without thinking in terms of the opposite. A lie is not something opposed to truth. One can see the truth of what is being said, not in opposition or in contrast, as a lie or a truth; but just see that most of us repeat without understanding.

这里的困难在于理解这个问题而不去思考它的对立面。 谎言不是与真理对立的东西。 一个人可以听见说出的话的真实性，而不是通过对立面或对比，被当作谎言或真理； 只需要看到，在没有理解的时候，我们大多数人都在重复它。

For instance, we have been discussing naming and not naming a feeling and so on. Many of you will repeat it, I am sure, thinking that it is the `truth'. You will never repeat an experience if it is a direct experience. You may communicate it but when it is a real experience the sensations behind it are gone, the emotional content behind the words is entirely dissipated.

例如，我们一直在讨论命名和不命名一种感觉，等等。 我敢肯定，你们中的许多人会重复它，认为这是“真相”。 如果它是一种直接的体验，你永远不会重复它。 你可以交流它，但当它是真实的体验时，它背后的感觉就消失了， 文字背后的情感内容完全地被销毁。

Take, for example, the idea that the thinker and the thought are one. It may be a truth to you, because you have directly experienced it. If I repeated it, it would not be true, would it? - true, not as opposed to the false, please. It would not be actual, it would be merely repetitive and therefore would have no significance. You see, by repetition we create a dogma, we build a church and in that we take refuge. The word and not truth, becomes the `truth'.

例如，思想家和思想是一体的。 它对你来说可能是一个真理，因为你已经直接体验过它。 如果我重复它，它就不是真的了，它是吗？—— 真，不是假的对立面，请留意。 它不会是真实的，它只是在重复，因此没有意义。 你看，通过重复，我们创造了一套教义，我们建立了一个教会，并在其中避难。 文字而不是真理，变成了这个“真理”。

The word is not the thing. To us, the thing is the word and that is why one has to be so extremely careful not to repeat something which one does not really understand. If you understand something, you can communicate it, but the words and the memory have lost their emotional significance. Therefore if one understands that, in ordinary conversation, one's outlook, one's vocabulary, changes.

这个词不是这个东西。 对我们来说，东西就是这个词 这就是为什么一个人必须非常小心，不要重复某个他并不真正理解的东西。 如果你理解某个东西，你可以传达它， 但文字和记忆已经失去了情感上的意义。 因此，如果一个人理解那一点，在平常的交谈中，一个人的视野，一个人的用词，就会改变。

As we are seeking truth through self-knowledge and are not mere propagandists, it is important to understand this. Through repetition one mesmerizes oneself by words or by sensations. One gets caught in illusions.

因为我们是通过自我认识来寻求真理，而不仅仅是宣传者， 理解这一点很重要。 通过重复，一个人被文字或感觉迷住了。 一个人陷入了幻想。

To be free of that, it is imperative to experience directly and to experience directly one must be aware of oneself in the process of repetition, of habits, or words, of sensations. That awareness gives one an extraordinary freedom, so that there can be a renewal, a constant experiencing, a newness.

要摆脱那，就必须直接地体验 要直接地体验， 在重复的过程中，在习惯，言语，感觉上，一个人必须意识到他自己。 那种意识给了一个人非凡的自由， 那么，就能出现一种更新，一个持久地体验，一种崭新。

The other question is: "What really is a lie? Why is it wrong to lie? Is this not a profound and subtle problem on all the levels of our existence?" What is a lie? A contradiction, isn't it?, a self-contradiction.

另一个问题是：“谎言到底是什么？为什么撒谎是错误的？ 这难道不是存在于我们各个层面上的，一个深刻而微妙的问题吗？” 什么是谎言？一个矛盾，它不是吗？，一个自我矛盾。

One can consciously contradict or unconsciously; it can either be deliberate or unconscious; the contradiction can be either very, very subtle or obvious. When the cleavage in contradiction is very great, then either one becomes unbalanced or one realizes the cleavage and sets about to mend it.

一个人可以有意识地或无意识地反驳； 它可能是故意的，也可能是无意识的； 这种矛盾可以非常非常微妙，也可以很明显。 当矛盾的裂缝非常大时， 那么，一个人要么变得不平衡，要么意识到并开始修复它。

To understand this problem, what is a lie and why we lie, one has to go into it without thinking in terms of an opposite. Can we look at this problem of contradiction in ourselves without trying not to be contradictory? Our difficulty in examining this question is, is it not?, that we so readily condemn a lie but, to understand it, can we think of it not in terms of truth and falsehood but of what is contradiction? Why do we contradict?

要理解这个问题，什么是谎言以及我们为什么撒谎， 一个人必须进入它而不考虑它的对立面。 我们能进入关于我们内在的这种矛盾，而不尝试走到它的对立面吗？ 我们检视这个问题的难点就在于此，不是吗？ 我们如此轻易地谴责谎言，但是，要理解它， 我们能不能不从真假的角度来思考它，而只是去考虑‘什么是矛盾’？ 我们为什么矛盾？

Why is there contradiction in ourselves? Is there not an attempt to live up to a standard, up to a pattern - a constant approximation of ourselves to a pattern, a constant effort to be something, either in the eyes of another or in our own eyes? There is a desire, is there not? to conform to a pattern; when one is not living up to that pattern, there is contradiction.

为什么我们自己有矛盾？ 难道没有尝试去达到一个标准，达到一种模式吗？ —— 我们在不断地接近一种模式，不断努力成为某个人物， 要么是在别人眼中的人物，要么是在我们心目中的人物？ 那就是一种欲望，不是吗？ 去遵从一种模式； 当一个人没有达成这种模式时，就会出现矛盾。

Now why do we have a pattern, a standard, an approximation, an idea which we are trying to live up to? Why? Obviously to be secure, to be safe, to be popular, to have a good opinion of ourselves and so on. There is the seed of contradiction. As long as we are approximating ourselves to something, trying to be something, there must be contradiction; therefore there must be this cleavage between the false and the true. I think this is important, if you will quietly go into it.

现在， 为什么我们有一个模式，一个标准，一个近似值，一个我们正在努力去实现的想法？ 为什么？ 显然要有保障，要安全，要受欢迎，要对我们自己有好感等等。 这就是矛盾的种子。 只要我们把自己近似于某种人物，试图成为某个东西，就一定有矛盾； 因此，在虚假和真实之间，必定存在这种分裂。 我想，这一点很重要，如果你愿意安静地进入它。

Not that there is not the false and the true; but why the contradiction in ourselves? Is it not because we are attempting to be something - to be noble, to be good, to be virtuous, to be creative, to be happy and so on? in the very desire to be something, there is a contradiction - not to be something else. It is this contradiction that is so destructive.

并不是说没有虚假和真实；但为什么我们会自相矛盾呢？ 难道不是因为我们试图成为某种人物吗？ —— 要高尚，善良，有德行，有创造力，快乐等等？ 在渴望成为某种人物的过程中，存在着一种矛盾 —— 不要去当其余的人物。 正是这种矛盾，具有如此大的破坏性。

If one is capable of complete identification with something, with this or with that, then contradiction ceases; when we do identify ourselves completely with something, there is self-enclosure, there is a resistance, which brings about unbalance - which is an obvious thing.

如果一个人能够完全认同某个东西，这个或那个， 那么，矛盾停止了； 当我们完全认同某个东西时，就产生了自我封闭，形成一种阻抗， 也就带来了不平衡 —— 这是显而易见的。

Why is there contradiction in ourselves? I have done something and I do not want it to be discovered; I have thought something which does not come up to the mark, which puts me in a state of contradiction, and I do not like it.

为什么我们自己互相矛盾？ 我做了一些事情，我不想被发现； 我想到某些不符合标准的东西， 这使我处于矛盾的状态，我不喜欢这样。

Where there is approximation, there must be fear and it is this fear that contradicts. Whereas if there is no becoming, no attempting to be something, then there is no sense of fear; there is no contradiction; there is no lie in us at any level, consciously or unconsciously - something to be suppressed, something to be shown up.

哪里有近似，哪里就一定有恐惧，而这种恐惧，就是矛盾。 然而，如果没有成为，没有试图成为某种人物，那么就没有恐惧感； 就没有矛盾； 在有意识或无意识层面上，我们就没有任何层面的谎言 —— 某种被压制、被宣扬的东西。

As most of our lives are a matter of moods and poses, depending on our moods, we pose - which is contradiction. When the mood disappears, we are what we are. It is this contradiction that is really important, not whether you tell a polite white lie or not. So long as this contradiction exists, there must be a superficial existence and therefore superficial fears which have to be guarded - and then white lies - , you know, all the rest of it follows.

由于我们的大部分生活都是情绪和姿态的问题， 根据我们的心情，我们摆姿势 —— 这就是矛盾。 当心绪消散时，我们还是老样子。 真正重要的是这种矛盾，而不是你是不是说了一个礼貌的、善意的谎言。 只要这种矛盾存在，就一定是肤浅的 因此，必须保护肤浅的恐惧 —— 然后是善意的谎言 —— ， 你知道，其余的都随之而来。

Let us look at this question, not asking what is a lie and what is truth but, without these opposites, go into the problem of contradiction in ourselves - which is extremely difficult, because as we depend so much on sensations, most of our lives are contradictory.

让我们看看这个问题，不要问什么是谎言，什么是真理，而是， 没有这些对立面，进入我们自己的矛盾中 —— 这是非常困难的，因为我们非常依赖感觉，我们的大部分生活都是矛盾的。

We depend on memories, on opinions; we have so many fears which we want to cover up - all these create contradiction in ourselves; when that contradiction becomes unbearable, one goes off one's head. One wants peace and everything that one does creates war, not only in the family but outside. Instead of understanding what creates conflict, we only try to become more and more one thing or the other, the opposite, thereby creating greater cleavage.

我们依靠记忆，依靠观点； 我们有很多想要掩盖的恐惧 —— 所有这些都在我们自己身上制造出矛盾； 当这种矛盾变得无法忍受时，一个人就会失去理智。 一个人想要和平，而他所做的一切都导致战争，不仅在家庭中，而且在外面。 我们不去理解是什么造成了冲突， 却试图变魔术，越来越多的花样，制造这个对立面，并产生更大的分裂。

Is it possible to understand why there is contradiction in ourselves - not only superficially but much more deeply, psychologically? First of all, is one aware that one lives a contradictory life? We want peace and we are nationalists; we want to avoid social misery and yet each one of us is individualistic, limited, self-enclosed. We are constantly living in contradiction. Why?

有没有可能理解为什么我们自己的矛盾 —— 不仅表面上，而且在更深层，在心理上？ 首先，一个人是否意识到自己是一条互相矛盾的生命？ 我们想要和平，而我们是民族主义者； 我们想要避免社会痛苦，但我们每个人都个人主义，限制，自我封闭。 我们一直活在矛盾之中。为什么？

Is it not because we are slaves to sensation? This is neither to be denied nor accepted. It requires a great deal of understanding of the implications of sensation, which are desires. We want so many things, all in contradiction with one another.

难道不是因为我们是感觉的奴隶吗？ 这既不是拒绝，也不是接受。 它需要不断去理解感觉的含义，感觉就是各种欲望。 我们想要很多东西，它们都是相互矛盾的。

We are so many conflicting masks; we take on a mask when it suits us and deny it when something else is more profitable, more pleasurable. It is this state of contradiction which creates the lie. In opposition to that, we create `truth'.

我们就是这么多相互矛盾的面具； 我们在合适的场所戴上一个面具， 并在其它更有利可图的、更令人愉快的场合下，拒绝这个面具。 正是这种矛盾的状态创造出谎言。 与它相对立，我们又创造出“真理”。

But surely truth is not the opposite of a lie. That which has an opposite is not truth. The opposite contains its own opposite, therefore it is not truth and to understand this problem very profoundly, one must be aware of all the contradictions in which we live.

但可以肯定的是，真理不是谎言的对立面。 有相反面的东西，不是真理。 这种反面包含着它自己的对立面， 因此，它不是真理，要非常深刻地理解这个问题， 一个人必须意识到我们生活中的所有矛盾。

When I say, `I love you', with it goes jealousy, envy, anxiety, fear - which is contradiction. It is this contradiction which must be understood and one can understand it only when one is aware of it, aware without any condemnation or justification - merely looking at it. To look at it passively, one has to understand all the processes of justification and condemnation.

当我说「我爱你」时，随之而来的是嫉妒、嫉妒、焦虑、恐惧 —— 也就是矛盾。 必须理解的正是这种矛盾 只有当一个人意识到它时，一个人才能理解它，意识到它而没有任何的谴责或争辩。 —— 只是看着它。 要被动地看它，一个人必须理解所有辩护和谴责的过程。

It is not an easy thing, to look passively at something; but in understanding that, one begins to understand the whole process of the ways of one's feeling and thinking. When one is aware of the full significance of contradiction in oneself, it brings an extraordinary change: you are yourself, then, not something you are trying to be. You are no longer following an ideal, seeking happiness. You are what you are and from there you can proceed. Then there is no possibility of contradiction.

要被动地看一个东西，不是一件容易的事情； 但是当理解这一点之后，一个人开始理解一个人的感觉和思考方式的整个过程。 当一个人意识到矛盾在自己身上的全部意义时，它会带来一个非凡的变化： 那么，你就是你自己，而不是你想成为的某个人物。 你不再追随理想，不再追求快乐。 你就是你，从那里你可以继续。 那么，就没有矛盾的可能了。

Question: You have realized reality. Can you tell us what God is?

问：你已经意识到了现实。你能告诉我们上帝是什么吗？

Krishnamurti: How do you know I have realized? To know that I have realized, you also must have realized. This is not just a clever answer. To know something you must be of it. You must yourself have had the experience also and therefore your saying that I have realized has apparently no meaning.

克里希那穆提：你怎么知道我已经意识到了？ 要知道我已经意识到了，你也必须意识到。 这不仅仅是一个聪明的答案。要知道某个东西，你必须是它。 你自己一定也有过这样的体验 因此，我关于我已经意识到的说法，显然是没有意义的。

What does it matter if I have realized or have not realized? Is not what I am saying the truth? Even if I am the most perfect human being, if what I say is not the truth why would you even listen to me? Surely my realization has nothing whatever to do with what I am saying and the man who worships another because that other has realized is really worshipping authority and therefore he can never find the truth. To understand what has been realized and to know him who has realized is not at all important, is it?

我有没有意识到，这有什么关系你？ 我说的不是实话吗？ 即使我是最完美的人类，如果我说的不是真实的，你为什么还要听我的？ 显然，我所意识到的，与我所说的话和这位崇拜别人的人无关 因为，那位已经意识到的别人，其实就是在崇拜权威 因此，他永远找不到真理。 去理解已经意识到的东西，去知晓那位已经领悟的人，根本是不重要的，不是吗？

I know the whole tradition says, "Be with a man who has realized." How can you know that he has realized? All that you can do is to keep company with him and even that is extremely difficult nowadays. There are very few good people, in the real sense of the word - people who are not seeking something, who are not after something. Those who are seeking something or are after something are exploiters and therefore it is very difficult for anyone to find a companion to love.

我知道整个传统都说，“和一个已经意识到的人在一起。” 你怎么知道他已经领悟了？ 你所能做的就是和他作伴，即使是那样，如今也很困难。 真正意义上的好人很少，好人这个词是指 —— 不寻找、不追随某个东西的人。 那些寻求或追求某个东西的人是剥削者 因此，任何人都很难找到一个伴侣去爱。

We idealize those who have realized and hope that they will give us something, which is a false relationship. How can the man who has realized communicate if there is no love? That is our difficulty.

我们将那些已经领悟的人理想化 并希望他们能给我们某个东西，这就是一种虚假的关系。 没有爱，怎么与已经领悟的人沟通？ 那就是我们的困难。

In all our discussions we do not really love each other; we are suspicious. You want something from me, knowledge, realization, or you want to keep company with me, all of which indicates that you do not love. You want something and therefore you are out to exploit. If we really love each other then there will be instantaneous communication. Then it does not matter if you have realized and I have not or if you are the high or the low.

在我们所有的讨论中，我们并不真正相爱；我们在怀疑。 你想从我这里得到某个东西，知识，领悟，或者你想和我作伴， 所有这些都表明你没有爱。 你想要某个东西，因此你是在剥削。 如果我们真的彼此相爱，那么就会有即刻的共融。 那么，你是已经领悟而我还没有，或者你是高还是低，都无关紧要。

Since our hearts have withered, God has become awfully important. That is, you want to know God because you have lost the song in your heart and you pursue the singer and ask him whether he can teach you how to sing. He can teach you the technique but the technique will not lead you to creation. You cannot be a musician by merely knowing how to sing. You may know all the steps of a dance but if you have not creation in your heart, you are only functioning as a machine.

自从我们的心灵枯萎以来，上帝变得非常地重要。 也就是说，你想知道上帝 因为你失去了你心中的歌 你追求这位歌手，问他是否可以教你如何唱歌。 他可以教你技巧，但技巧不会引导你走向创造。 你不能仅仅通过知道如何唱歌来成为一名音乐家。 你可能知道舞蹈的所有步骤，但如果你心里没有创造， 你只是一台机器。

You cannot love if your object is merely to achieve a result. There is no such thing as an ideal, because that is merely an achievement. Beauty is not an achievement, it is reality, now, not tomorrow. If there is love you will understand the unknown, you will know what God is and nobody need tell you - and that is the beauty of love. It is eternity in itself. Because there is no love, we want someone else, or God, to give it to us.

如果你的目标仅仅是为了达到一个结果，你就无法爱。 没有理想这样的东西，因为那只是一种成就。 美不是一种成就，它是现实，是现在，而不是明天。 如果有爱，你会理解这种未知，你会知道上帝是什么，没有人需要告诉你。 —— 那就是爱的美。 它本身就是永恒。 因为没有爱，我们希望别人或上帝把它给我们。

If we really loved, do you know what a different world this would be? We should be really happy people. Therefore we should not invest our happiness in things, in family, in ideals. We should be happy and therefore things, people and ideals would not dominate our lives. They are all secondary things. Because we do not love and because we are not happy we invest in things, thinking they will give us happiness, and one of the things in which we invest is God.

如果我们真的爱过，你知道这会是一个多么不同的世界吗？ 我们应该成为真正快乐的人。 因此，我们不应该把快乐投入到东西上，投入到家庭上，投入到理想上。 我们应该快乐，因此东西、人和理想不会主宰我们的生活。 它们都是次要的。 因为我们不爱，因为我们不快乐，我们投资东西，期望它们会给我们带来快乐， 我们投资中的一个东西就是上帝。

You want me to tell you what reality is. Can the indescribable be put into words? Can you measure something immeasurable? Can you catch the wind in your fist? If you do, is that the wind? If you measure that which is immeasurable, is that the real? If you formulate it, is it the real?

你想要我告诉你：现实是什么。 无法形容的东西可以用语言表达吗？你能测量某个不可估量的东西吗？ 你能用拳头抓住风吗？如果你这样做，那还是风吗？ 如果你衡量的是不可估量的东西，那是真实的吗？ 如果你把它公式化，它还是真的吗？

Surely not, for the moment you describe something which is indescribable, it ceases to be the real. The moment you translate the unknowable into the known, it ceases to be the unknowable. Yet that is what we are hankering after. All the time we want to know, because then we shall be able to continue, then we shall be able, we think, to capture ultimate happiness, permanency.

当然不是，因为当你描述一些无法形容的东西时，它就不再是真实的了。 当你把不可知的东西翻译成已知的那一刻，它就不再是不可知的了。 然而，这正是我们所渴望的。 我们一直想知道，因为那样我们才能继续， 然后，我们将会有能力，我们认为，我们将能够获得终极的快乐，永恒。

We want to know because we are not happy, because we are striving miserably, because we are worn out, degraded. Yet instead of realizing the simple fact - that we are degraded, that we are dull, weary, in turmoil - we want to move away from what is the known into the unknown, which again becomes the known and therefore we can never find the real.

我们想去知道，因为我们不快乐， 因为我们在悲惨地奋斗，因为我们疲惫不堪，在堕落。 然而，我们不去意识这一个简单的事实 —— 我们在堕落，我们沉闷，疲惫，处于动荡之中 —— 我们却想从这个已知转向未知， 它再次成为已知，因此我们永远找不到真实。

Therefore instead of asking who has realized or what God is why not give your whole attention and awareness to what is? Then you will find the unknown, or rather it will come to you. If you understand what is the known, you will experience that extraordinary silence which is not induced, not enforced, that creative emptiness in which alone reality can enter.

因此，与其问谁已经意识到或上帝是什么 为什么不把你的全部注意力和意识都给到‘什么是’上？ 然后你会发现这种未知，或者更确切地说，它会来到你身边。 如果你理解什么是已知的， 你将体验到那种非凡的寂静，它不是诱导的，不是强迫的， 那种创造性的虚无，只有现实可以进入其中。

It cannot come to that which is becoming, which is striving; it can only come to that which is being, which understands what is. Then you will see that reality is not in the distance; the unknown is not far off; it is in what is. As the answer to a problem is in the problem, so reality is in what is; if we can understand it, then we shall know truth.

它无法靠近那位正在成为、正在努力的某某； 它只能来到那位活着的、理解‘什么是’的某某。 那么，你将看到现实不在远处；未知并不遥远；它在‘什么是’中。 正如问题的答案在问题中一样，现实也在现状中； 如果我们能理解它，那么我们就会知道真理。

It is extremely difficult to be aware of dullness, to be aware of greed, to be aware of ill will, ambition and so on. The very fact of being aware of what is is truth. It is truth that liberates, not your striving to be free. Thus reality is not far but we place it far away because we try to use it as a means of self-continuity.

它是非常困难的 要意识到迟钝，意识到贪婪，意识到恶意、野心等等。 意识到现状，就是真理。 真理即是解放，而不是你为了实现自由的努力。 因此，现实并不遥远，但我们将它放在很远的地方 因为我们试图将它用作实现自我延续的手段。

It is here, now, in the immediate. The eternal or the timeless is now and the now cannot be understood by a man who is caught in the net of time. To free thought from time demands action, but the mind is lazy, it is slothful, and therefore ever creates other hindrances.

它就在这里，现在，在眼前。 这个永恒或无时间的，就是此刻，它无法被陷入时间之网的人理解。 从时间中解放思想，需要行动， 但是头脑是懒惰的，它是懒惰的，因此总是创造出其他的障碍。

It is only possible by right meditation, which means complete action, not a continuous action, and complete action can only be understood when the mind comprehends the process of continuity, which is memory - not the factual but the psychological memory. As long as memory functions, the mind cannot understand what is. But one's mind, one's whole being, becomes extraordinarily creative, passively alert, when one understands the significance of ending, because in ending there is renewal, while in continuity there is death, there is decay.

只有通过正确的冥想才有可能，这意味着完整的行动， 不是一种延续性的行为，要理解完整的行为 只有当头脑理解了延续性过程，也就是记忆 —— 不是事实上的，而是心理上的记忆。 只要记忆在发挥作用，这颗头脑就无法理解现状。 但是一个人的头脑，一个人的整条命，变得非常有创造力，被动地警觉， 当一个人理解结束的意义时， 因为在结束中有更新，而在延续性中有死亡、腐朽。

Question: Can we realize on the spot the truth you are speaking of, without any previous preparation?

问：我们能否在没有任何事先准备的情况下，当场意识到你所说的真理？

Krishnamurti: What do you mean by truth? Do not let us use a word of which we do not know the meaning; we can use a simpler word, a more direct word. Can you understand, can you comprehend a problem directly? That is what is implied, is it not? Can you understand what is, immediately, now?

克里希那穆提：你说的真理是什么意思？ 不要让我们使用一个我们不知道含义的词； 我们可以用一个更简单的词，一个更直接的词。 你能理解，你能直接理解一个问题吗？ 那就是其中的暗示，不是吗？ 你能理解什么是，即刻的，现在？

In understanding what is, you will understand the significance of truth; but to say that one must understand truth has very little meaning. Can you understand a problem directly, fully, and be free of it? That is what is implied in this question, is it not? Can you understand a crisis, a challenge, immediately, see its whole significance and be free of it?

理解什么是，你会理解真理的含义； 但是说一个人必须理解真理，那就没什么意思。 你能直接地、完全地理解一个问题，并解放它吗？ 这就是这个问题所暗示的，不是吗？ 你能立即理解一场危机、一个挑战，看到它的全部意义并解放它吗？

What you understand leaves no mark; therefore understanding or truth is the liberator. Can you be liberated now from a problem, from a challenge? Life is, is it not?, a series of challenges and responses and if your response to a challenge is conditioned, limited, incomplete, then that challenge leaves its mark, its residue, which is further strengthened by another new challenge. So there is a constant residual memory, accumulations, scars, and with all these scars you try to meet the new and therefore you never meet the new. Therefore you never understand, there is never a liberation from any challenge.

你所理解的不会留下任何痕迹；因此，理解或真理，就是解放者。 你此刻能从一个问题、一个挑战中解放出来吗？ 生命是，不是吗？ 是一系列的挑战和回应，如果你对挑战的回应是有条件的、受限的、不完整的， 那么，这一挑战留下了它的痕迹，它的残余，另一个新的挑战进一步强化了这一痕迹。 所以有不断的残留记忆，积累，伤疤， 带着所有这些伤疤，你试图迎接新，因此，你永远不会遇到新。 因此，你永远不会理解，永远不会从任何挑战中解放出来。

The problem, the question is, whether I can understand a challenge completely, directly; sense all its significance, all its perfume, its depth, its beauty and its ugliness and so be free of it. A challenge is always new, is it not? The problem is always new, is it not?

问题是，我是否能完全、直接地理解一个挑战； 感受它的所有意义，它所有的芬芳，它的深度，它的美丽和丑陋，因此，解放它。 挑战总是新的，不是吗？ 问题总是新的，不是吗？

A problem which you had yesterday, for example, has undergone such modification that when you meet it today, it is already new. But you meet it with the old, because you meet it without transforming, merely modifying your own thoughts.

例如，您昨天遇到的一个问题， 经历了这样的调整，当你今天遇到它时，它已经是新的了。 但你携带着旧的与它见面， 因为你遇见它却没有转变，只是在调整你自己的思想。

Let me put it in a different way. I met you yesterday. In the meantime you have changed. You have undergone a modification but I still have yesterday's picture of you. I meet you today with my picture of you and therefore I do not understand you - I understand only the picture of you which I acquired yesterday.

让我换一种说法。 我昨天见过你。 同时，你已经改变了。 你经历了改变，但我仍然保留着昨天的照片。 我今天带着你的照片遇见你，因此我不理解你 —— 我只理解照片中的你，那是我昨天所收获的。

If I want to understand you, who are modified, changed, I must remove, I must be free of the picture of yesterday. In other words to understand a challenge, which is always new, I must also meet it anew, there must be no residue of yesterday; so I must say adieu to yesterday.

如果我想理解你，那个被调整，被改变的人，我必须删除，我必须摆脱昨天的照片。 换句话说，要理解一个总是崭新的挑战， 我也必须全新地迎战它，不能有昨天的残留； 所以我必须向昨天说再见。

After all, what is life? It is something new all the time, is it not? It is something which is ever undergoing change, creating a new feeling. Today is never the same as yesterday and that is the beauty of life. Can you and I meet every problem anew? Can you, when you go home, meet your wife and your child anew, meet the challenge anew?

毕竟，什么是生命？它一直是新的，它不是吗？ 它是不断变化的东西，创造出一种新的感觉。 今天永远不会和昨天一样，这就是生命的美。 你和我能全新地解决每一个问题吗？ 当你回家时，你能全新地迎接你的妻子和你的孩子，全新地迎接挑战吗？

You will not be able to do it if you are burdened with the memories of yesterday. Therefore, to understand the truth of a problem, of a relationship, you must come to it afresh - not with an `open mind', for that has no meaning. You must come to it without the scars of yesterday's memories - which means, as each challenge arises, be aware of all the responses of yesterday and by being aware of yesterday's residue, memories, you will find that they drop away without struggle and therefore your mind is fresh.

如果你背负着昨天的回忆，你将无法做到这一点。 因此，要理解一个问题、一个关系的真理，你必须全新地面对它。 —— 不是带着一颗“开放的心态”，因为那没有任何意义。 你必须在没有昨天的记忆的伤疤的情况下来到它 —— 这意味着，当每个挑战出现时，要意识到昨天的所有回应 通过意识到昨天的残留物，记忆， 你会发现它们没有挣扎就消失了，因此你的头脑是清新的。

Can one realize truth immediately, without preparation? I say yes - not out of some fancy of mine, not out of some illusion; but psychologically experiment with it and you will see. Take any challenge, any small incident - don't wait for some great crisis - and see how you respond to it.

一个人能在没有准备的情况下立即意识到真理吗？ 我说能 —— 不是出于我的一些幻想，不是出于某种幻觉； 而是在心理上尝试一下，你会看到。 接受任何挑战，任何小事件 —— 不要等待某个重大的危机 —— 看看你在如何回应它。

Be aware of it, of your responses, of your intentions, of your attitudes and you will understand them, you will understand your background. I assure you, you can do it immediately if you give your whole attention to it. If you are seeking the full meaning of your background, it yields its significance and then you discover in one stroke the truth, the understanding of the problem.

意识到它，你的回应，你的意图，你的态度，你会理解它们， 你会理解你的背景。 我向你保证，如果你把所有的注意力拿出来，你可以立即做到。 如果你正在寻求你的背景的全部意义，它就会产生出它的意义 那么，你一下子发现这个真理，对这个问题的理解。

Understanding comes into being from the now, the present, which is always timeless. Though it may be tomorrow, it is still now; merely to postpone, to prepare to receive that which is tomorrow, is to prevent yourself from understanding what is now. Surely you can understand directly what is now, can't you?

理解是从现在产生的，现在总是无时间的。 虽然可能有明天，但它仍然是现在； 仅仅去推迟，去准备接收明天，就是阻止你自己理解现在是什么。 你当然能直接理解现在是什么，你不能吗？

To understand what is, you have to be undisturbed, undistracted, you have to give your mind and heart to it. It must be your sole interest at that moment, completely. Then what is gives you its full depth, its full meaning, and thereby you are free of that problem.

要理解是什么，你必须不受干扰，不分心，你必须拿出你的头脑和心灵。 那一刻，它一定是你唯一的兴趣，完整的。 那么，什么是给了你它的全部深度，它的全部意义，因此你解放了那个问题。

If you want to know the truth, the psychological significance of property, for instance, if you really want to understand it directly, now, how do you approach it? Surely you must feel akin to the problem, you must not be afraid of it, you must not have any creed, any answer, between yourself and the problem. Only when you are directly in relationship with the problem will you find the answer.

如果你想知道真理，财产在心理上的意义， 例如，如果你真的想直接理解它，现在，你如何处理它？ 当然，你必须靠近这个问题，你必定不怕它， 你一定不能有任何信条，任何答案，夹在你和这个问题之间。 只有当你直接与问题有关联时，你才会找到这个答案。

If you introduce an answer, if you judge, have a psychological disinclination, then you will postpone, you will prepare to understand tomorrow what can only be understood in the `now'. Therefore you will never understand. To perceive truth needs no preparation; preparation implies time and time is not the means of understanding truth. Time is continuity and truth is timeless, non-continuous. Understanding is non-continuous, it is from moment to moment, unresidual.

如果你引入一个答案，如果你判断，有心理上的不情愿， 那么你会推迟，你打算明天再来理解只有“现在”才能理解的东西。 因此，你永远不会理解。 感知真理不需要准备； 准备意味着时间，时间不是理解真理的手段。 时间是延续的，真理是无时间的，非延续的。 理解是非延续的，它是每时每刻，无残留的。

I am afraid I am making it all sound very difficult, am I not? But it is easy, simple to understand, if you will only experiment with it. If you go off into a dream, meditate over it, it becomes very difficult. When there is no barrier between you and me, I understand you. If I am open to you, I understand you directly - and to be open is not a matter of time.

恐怕我让这一切听起来很困难，我没有吗？ 其实它很容易，要理解是很简单的，如果你愿意尝试它。 如果你进入梦幻，对它冥想，它就变得非常困难。 当你和我之间没有障碍时，我理解你。 如果我对你敞开心扉，我直接理解你 —— 敞开心扉与时间无关。

Will time make me open? Will preparation, system, discipline, make me open to you? No. What will make me open to you is my intention to understand. I want to be open because I have nothing to hide, I am not afraid; therefore I am open and there is immediate communion, there is truth. To receive truth, to know its beauty, to know its joy, there must be instant receptivity, unclouded by theories, fears and answers.

时间会让我敞开心扉吗？ 准备、制度、纪律会使我向你敞开心扉吗？ 不会。使我向你敞开心扉的是我想要去理解的意图。 我想敞开心扉，因为我没有什么可隐瞒的，我不害怕； 因此，我放开，有立即的共融，这就是真理。 去接受真理，知道它的美，知道它的欢乐， 必须有即刻的接受能力，不受理论、恐惧和答案的污染。

Question: What is simplicity? Does it imply seeing very clearly the essentials and discarding everything else?

问题：什么是简单？ 它是否意味着非常清楚地看到本质并丢弃其他一切？

Krishnamurti: Let us see what simplicity is not. Don't say - "That is negation" or "Tell us something positive". That is immature, thoughtless reaction. Those people who offer you the `positive' are exploiters; they have something to give you which you want and through which they exploit you.

克里希那穆提：让我们看看简单不是什么。 不要说 —— “那是消极” 或者“告诉我们一些积极的”。 那是不成熟的、轻率的反应。 那些给你“积极”的人是剥削者； 他们拥有某个你想要的东西，并通过它来剥削你。

We are doing nothing of that kind. We are trying to find out the truth of simplicity. Therefore you must discard, put ideas behind and observe anew.

我们没有做这种事情。 我们正试图找出简单的真实含义。 因此，你必须抛弃，把想法抛在脑后，重新观察。

The man who has much is afraid of revolution, inwardly and outwardly. Let us find out what is not simplicity. A complicated mind is not simple, is it? A clever mind is not simple; a mind that has an end in view for which it is working, a reward, a fear, is not a simple mind, is it?

拥有很多东西的人害怕革命，无论是内在的还是外在的。 让我们找出什么是不简单的。 复杂的头脑是不简单的，不是吗？ 聪明的头脑是不简单的； 一个有目的的头脑，抱有为之而奋斗的某个愿景，某个奖励，某种恐惧，不是一个简单的头脑，它是吗？

A mind that is burdened with knowledge is not a simple mind; a mind that is crippled with beliefs is not a simple mind, is it? A mind that has identified itself with something greater and is striving to keep that identity, is not a simple mind, is it? We think it is simple to have only one or two loincloths, we want the outward show of simplicity and we are easily deceived by that. That is why the man who is very rich worships the man who has renounced.

背负着知识的头脑不是简单的头脑； 一个被信仰弄残的头脑不是一个简单的头脑，是吗？ 一个与某种更伟大的事物相认同，并努力保持这种地位的头脑，不是一个简单的头脑，它是吗？ 我们认为只有一两块缠腰布就是简单， 我们想要简单的外在表现，我们很容易被它欺骗。 那就是为什么非常富有的人崇拜已经放弃的人。

What is simplicity? Can simplicity be the discarding of non-essentials and the pursuing of essentials - which means a process of choice? Does it not mean choice - choosing essentials and discarding non-essentials? What is this process of choosing? What is the entity that chooses?

什么是简单？ 简单难道就是抛弃非本质的，而去追求本质吗 —— 这意味着一个选择的过程？ 它不是意味着选择吗 —— 选择必需品和丢弃非必需品吗？ 这个选择过程是什么？ 选择的实体是什么？

Mind, is it not? It does not matter what you call it. You say, `I will choose this, which is the essential'. How do you know what is the essential?

头脑，不是吗？ 你怎么称呼它并不重要。 你说，'我会选择这个，这是本质'。 你怎么知道什么是本质？

Either you have a pattern of what other people have said or your own experience says that something is the essential. Can you rely on your experience? When you choose, your choice is based on desire, is it not? What you call `the essential' is that which gives you satisfaction. So you are back again in the same process, are you not? Can a confused mind choose? If it does, the choice must also be confused.

要么你对别人说的话有一个模式，要么你自己的体验表明某个东西是必不可少的。 你能依靠你的体验吗？当你选择时，你的选择是基于欲望，它不是吗？ 你所谓的“本质”是给你满足感的东西。 所以你又回到了同样的过程中，不是吗？ 一个困惑的头脑能做选择吗？ 如果它这样做，这个选择也必定是糊涂。

Therefore the choice between the essential and the non-essential is not simplicity. It is a conflict. A mind in conflict, in confusion, can never be simple. When you discard, when you really observe and see all these false things, the tricks of the mind, when you look at it and are aware of it, then you will know for yourself what simplicity is.

因此，在本质和非本质之间做选择，是不简单的。 它是一场冲突。 一个处于冲突、混乱中的头脑，永远不可能是简单的。 当你丢弃时，当你真正在观察时 看到所有这些错误的东西，头脑的这些诡计， 当你看到它并意识到它时，你就会亲自知道什么是简单。

A mind which is bound by belief is never a simple mind. A mind that is crippled with knowledge is not simple. A mind that is distracted by God, by women, by music, is not a simple mind. A mind caught in the routine of the office, of rituals, of prayers, such a mind is not simple.

一个被信仰束缚的头脑从来都不是一个简单的头脑。 一个被知识弄得残缺的头脑是不简单的。 一个被上帝、女人、音乐分散注意力的头脑，不是一个简单的头脑。 一个陷入办公室、仪式、祈祷的例行公事中的头脑，这样的头脑是不简单的。

Simplicity is action, without idea. But that is a very rare thing; that means creativeness. So long as there is not creation, we are centres of mischief, misery and destruction. Simplicity is not a thing which you can pursue and experience.

简单是行动，没有想法。 但那是一件非常稀罕的东西；那意味着创造。 只要没有创造，我们就是灾难、痛苦和毁灭的中心。 简单不是你可以追求和体验的东西。

Simplicity comes, as a flower opens at the right moment, when each one understands the whole process of existence and relationship. Because we have never thought about it, observed it, we are not aware of it; we value all the outer forms of few possessions but those are not simplicity.

当每个人都理解存在和关系的整个过程时， 简单走来，如同一朵花在适当的时候绽放。 因为我们从未想过它，观察过它，我们没有意识到它； 我们看重外在的形式 —— 拥有很少的财物，但这些都是不简单的。

Simplicity is not to be found; it does not lie as a choice between the essential and the non-essential. It comes into being only when the self is not; when the mind is not caught in speculations, conclusions, beliefs, ideations. Such a free mind only can find truth. Such a mind alone can receive that which is immeasurable, which is unnameable; and that is simplicity.

简单是找不到的； 它不是在本质和非本质之间做选择题。 只有当自我不在时，它才会出现； 当头脑没有陷入猜测、结论、信仰、想法时。 这种自由的头脑才能找到真理。 只有这样的头脑才能接受不可估量的东西，那不可命名的；那就是简单。

Question: How is one who is superficial to become serious?

问：肤浅的人如何变得严肃？

Krishnamurti: First of all, we must be aware that we are superficial, must we not? What does it mean to be superficial? Essentially, to be dependent, does it not? To depend on stimulation, to depend on challenge, to depend on another, to depend psychologically on certain values, certain experiences, certain memories - does not all that make for superficiality?

克里希那穆提：首先，我们必须意识到我们肤浅，不是吗？ 肤浅是什么意思？ 从本质上讲，就是依靠，不是它吗？ 依靠刺激，依靠挑战，依靠他人， 在心理上依靠某些价值，某些体验，某段记忆 —— 这一切不都在制造着肤浅吗？

When I depend on going to church every morning or every week in order to be uplifted, in order to be helped, does that not make me superficial? If I have to perform certain rituals to maintain my sense of integrity or to regain a feeling which I may once have had, does that not make me superficial?

当我依靠每天早上或每周去教会，以便于得到提升，得到帮助时， 那难道没有使我肤浅吗？ 如果我必须执行某些仪式，以保持我的正直感或恢复我曾经拥有的感觉， 这难道没有使我肤浅吗？

Does it not make me superficial when I give myself over to a country, to a plan or to a particular political group? Surely this whole process of dependence is an evasion of myself; this identification with the greater is the denial of what I am.

当我把自己交给一个国家、一个计划或一个特定的政治团体时，这难道不会使我肤浅吗？ 当然，这整个依赖过程就是对自己的逃避； 这种对更大的认同就是对‘我是什么’的拒绝。

But I cannot deny what I am; I must understand what I am and not try to identify myself with the universe, with God, with a particular political party or what you will. All this leads to shallow thinking and from shallow thinking there is activity which is everlastingly mischievous, whether on a worldwide scale, or on the individual scale.

但我不能拒绝我是什么； 我必须理解我是什么， 而不是试图将自己与宇宙、与上帝、与特定的政党或您想要的一切相认同。 所有这些都导致肤浅的思考 从浅薄的思考中，有一种活动是永远灾难性的， 无论是在全球范围内，还是在个人层面上。

First of all, do we recognize that we are doing these things? We do not; we justify them. We say, "What shall I do if I don't do these things? I'll be worse off; my mind will go to pieces. Now, at least, I am struggling towards something better." The more we struggle the more superficial we are. I have to see that first, have I not?

首先，我们是否认识到我们正在这么做？ 我们没有；我们为它们辩护。 我们说：“如果我不这么做，我该怎么办？ 我会更糟；我的头脑会支离破碎。 至少现在，我正在努力追求某个更好的东西。” 我们越挣扎，我们就越肤浅。 我必需先看见那，我不必吗？

That is one of the most difficult things; to see what I am, to acknowledge that I am stupid, that I am shallow, that I am narrow, that I am jealous. If I see what I am, if I recognize it, then with that I can start. Surely, a shallow mind is a mind that escapes from what is; not to escape requires arduous investigation, the denial of inertia.

那是最困难的事情之一； 看见我是什么，承认我愚蠢，我肤浅，我狭隘，我嫉妒。 如果我看到我是什么，如果我认出它，那么我就能开始。 当然，一颗浅薄的头脑是逃避‘什么是’的头脑； 不逃避需要艰苦的考察，对习性的否定。

The moment I know I am shallow, there is already a process of deepening - if I don't do anything about the shallowness. If the mind says, "I am petty, and I am going to go into it, I am going to understand the whole of this pettiness, this narrowing influence", then there is a possibility of transformation; but a petty mind, acknowledging that it is petty and trying to be non-petty by reading, by meeting people, by travelling, by being incessantly active like a monkey, is still a petty mind.

知道我自己肤浅的那一刻，已经有一个深入的过程 —— 如果我对浅薄不做任何手脚。 如果这颗头脑说：“我小气，我要进入它， 我要理解这种小气的全体，这种狭隘的影响”， 那么，有转变的可能； 但一颗小气的头脑，承认它是小气的， 却试图通过阅读、结交人们、通过旅行、通过像猴子一样不停地活动而变得不小气， 还是个小气的头脑。

Again, you see, there is a real revolution only if we approach this problem rightly. The right approach to the problem gives an extraordinary confidence which I assure you moves mountains - the mountains of one's own prejudices, conditionings. Being aware of a shallow mind, do not try to become deep. A shallow mind can never know great depths. It can have plenty of knowledge, information, it can repeat words - you know the whole paraphernalia of a superficial mind that is active.

再一次，你看，只有当我们正确地处理这个问题时，才会有一场真正的革命。 处理问题的正确方法有一种非凡的信心，我向你保证，能够移山 —— 这座一个人所拥有的偏见、局限的大山。 意识到这个浅薄的头脑，不要试图变得深沉。 一个肤浅的头脑永远不会知道什么是深邃。 它能够拥有很多知识，信息，它可以重复文字 —— 你知道一个活跃的肤浅头脑的全部用具。

But if you know that you are superficial, shallow, if you are aware of the shallowness and observe all its activities without judging, without condemnation, then you will soon see that the shallow thing has disappeared entirely, without your action upon it. That requires patience, watchfulness, not an eager desire for a result, for achievement. It is only a shallow mind that wants an achievement, a result.

但如果你知道你是肤浅的、浅薄的， 如果你意识到这种肤浅，不带评判，不带谴责地观察它的所有活动， 那么，你很快就会看见，浅薄的东西已经完全消失了，你并没有对它下手。 那需要耐心、警惕，而不是热切的渴望一个结果、成就。 那个想要一种成就，一个结果的，是一个肤浅的头脑。

The more you are aware of this whole process, the more you will discover the activities of the mind but you must observe them without trying to put an end to them, because the moment you seek an end, you are again caught in the duality of the `me' and the `not-me' - which continues the problem.

你对整个过程意识得越多，你就越会发现头脑的活动。 但你必须观察它们，而不是试图结束它们， 因为当你寻求终点的那一刻，你又陷入了“我”和“非我”的二元性中 —— 并使这个问题延续。

Question: With what should the mind be occupied?

这颗头脑应该用什么来占据？

Krishnamurti: Here is a very good example of how conflict is brought into being: the conflict between what should be and what is. First we establish what should be, the ideal, and then try to live according to that pattern. We say that the mind should be occupied with noble things, with unselfishness, with generosity, with kindliness, with love; that is the pattern, the belief, the should be, the must, and we try to live accordingly.

克里希那穆提：这里有一个很好的例子，说明冲突是如何产生的： ‘应该是什么’和‘什么是’之间的冲突。 首先，我们建立‘应该是什么’，这个理想，然后，尝试按照这种模式生活。 我们说，头脑应该被高尚的东西所占据，用无私，用慷慨，用善良，用爱； 那就是模式，信仰，这种应该，这个必须，而我们尝试那样去生活。

So there is a conflict set going, between the projection of what should be and the actuality, the what is, and through that conflict we hope to be transformed. So long as we are struggling with the should be, we feel virtuous, we feel good, but which is important: the should be or what is?

因此，有一场冲突爆发于‘应该是什么的投影’和这个现实，这个‘什么是’之间， 我们希望通过那场冲突而得以转变。 只要我们朝着理想而挣扎，我们就感到有美德，我们就感觉良好， 但是，哪一个是重要的：这个‘应该是’，还是‘什么是’？

With what are our minds occupied - actually, not ideologicallY? With trivialities, are they not? With how one looks, with ambition, with greed, with envy, with gossip, with cruelty. The mind lives in a world of trivialities and a trivial mind creating a noble pattern is still trivial, is it not? The question is not with what should the mind be occupied but can the mind free itself from trivialities?

我们的头脑被什么占据着 —— 实际上的，不是在意识形态上？ 各种琐碎，不是它们吗？ 里面填塞着一个人的外表，野心，贪婪，嫉妒，闲言闲语，残忍。 头脑生活在一个琐碎的世界里， 一个琐碎的头脑创造出一个高尚的模式，仍然是琐碎的，它不是吗？ 问题不在于头脑应该被什么占据，而在于头脑能从琐碎中解放吗？

If we are at all aware, if we are at all inquiring, we know our own particular trivialities: incessant talk, the everlasting chattering of the mind, worry over this and that, curiosity as to what people are doing or not doing, trying to achieve a result, groping after one's own aggrandizement and so on.

如果我们完全地意识，如果我们完整地探究，我们就知道我们自己特别的琐碎： 不停的谈话，这颗头脑持续的喋喋不休， 担心这个和那个，好奇人们在做什么或没做什么， 试图捕获一个结果，摸索着怎么扩张自己的占据物等等。

With that we are occupied and we know it very well. Can that be transformed? That is the problem, is it not? To ask with what the mind should be occupied is mere immaturity.

拥抱那些，我们就被占据了，我们非常熟悉它。那能被转变吗？ 那就是问题所在，不是吗？ 问头脑应该被什么占据，仅仅是不成熟的。

Now, being aware that my mind is trivial and occupied with trivialities, can it free itself from this condition? Is not the mind, by its very nature, trivial? What is the mind but the result of memory? Memory of what?

现在，意识到我的头脑是琐碎的，被琐碎所占据， 它能摆脱这种限制吗？ 难道头脑的本质不就是琐碎吗？除了记忆的产物，头脑是什么东西？ 记忆是什么？

Of how to survive, not only physically but also psychologically through the development of certain qualities, virtues, the storing up of experiences, the establishing of itself in its own activities. Is that not trivial? The mind, being the result of memory, of time, is trivial in itself; what can it do to free itself from its own triviality? Can it do anything?

如何生存，不仅仅是身体上的 而且在心理上也通过某些发展某种品质、美德、积累体验， 在它自己的活动中建立它自己的地位。 那不是琐碎吗？这颗头脑，作为记忆、时间的产物，本身是琐碎的； 它能做些什么来摆脱自己的琐碎？ 它能做任何事情吗？

Please see the importance of this. Can the mind, which is self-centred activity, free itself from that activity? Obviously, it cannot; whatever it does, it is still trivial. It can speculate about God, it can devise political systems, it can invent beliefs; but it is still within the field of time, its change is still from memory to memory, it is still bound by its own limitation.

请看这一点的重要性。 以自我为中心的活动的头脑能从这种活动中解脱出来吗？ 显然，它不能；无论它做什么，它仍然是琐碎的。 它可以推测上帝，它可以设计政治制度，它可以发明信仰； 但它仍然在时间的领域内，它的改变仍然是从记忆到记忆， 它仍然受到其自身局限性的约束。

Can the mind break down that limitation? Or does that limitation break down when the mind is quiet, when it is not active, when it recognizes its own trivialities, however great it may have imagined them to be? When the mind, having seen its trivialities, is fully aware of them and so becomes really quiet - only then is there a possibility of these trivialities dropping away.

头脑能打破这种限制吗？ 或者当头脑安静时，当它不活跃时，这种限制会崩溃吗？ 当它认识到它自己的琐碎时，无论它的想象多么伟大？ 当头脑看到它的琐碎，完全意识到它们，因此变得真正安静时 —— 只有这样，这些琐碎才有可能消失。

So long as you are inquiring with what the mind should be occupied, it will be occupied with trivialities, whether it builds a church, whether it prays or whether it goes to a shrine. The mind itself is petty, small, and by merely saying it is petty you haven't dissolved its pettiness.

只要你在询问头脑应该被什么占据， 它将被琐碎占据，无论是建造教堂，祈祷还是去神社。 头脑本身是小气的、渺小的，仅仅说它是小的，你还没有消解它的小气。

You have to understand it, the mind has to recognize its own activities, and in the process of that recognition, in the awareness of the trivialities which it has consciously and unconsciously built, the mind becomes quiet. In that quietness there is a creative state and this is the factor which brings about a transformation.

你必须理解它，头脑必须认识到它自己的活动， 在这种认识过程中， 在意识到它在有意识和无意识地建立琐碎，头脑变得安静。 在这种安静中，有一种创造性的状态，这就带来了转变的因素。

Question: Why do you speak of the stillness of the mind, and what is this stillness?

问：你为什么说头脑的静止，这个静止是什么？

Krishnamurti: Is it not necessary, if we would understand anything, that the mind should be still? If we have a problem, we worry over it, don't we? We go into it, we analyse it, we tear it to pieces, in the hope of understanding it. Now, do we understand through effort, through analysis, through comparison, through any form of mental struggle?

克里希那穆提：如果我们要理解任何东西，难道没有必要让头脑静止吗？ 如果我们有一个问题，我们会担心它，不是吗？ 我们进入它，我们分析它，我们把它撕成碎片，希望理解它。 现在，我们能通过努力，通过分析，通过比较，通过任何形式的心理挣扎来理解吗？

Surely, understanding comes only when the mind is very quiet. We say that the more we struggle with the question of starvation, of war, or any other human problem, the more we come into conflict with it, the better we shall understand it. Now, is that true?

当然，只有当头脑非常安静时，理解才会出现。 我们说，我们越是在饥饿、战争或任何其他人类问题上挣扎， 我们越是与它发生冲突，我们就越能理解它。 现在，那是真的吗？

Wars have been going on for centuries, the conflict between individuals, between societies; war, inward and outward, is constantly there. Do we resolve that war, that conflict, by further conflict, by further struggle, by cunning endeavour? Or do we understand the problem only when we are directly in front of it, when we are faced with the fact? We can face the fact only when there is no interfering agitation between the mind and the fact, so is it not important, if we are to understand, that the mind be quiet?

战争已经持续了几个世纪，个人之间的冲突，社会之间的冲突； 战争，无论是内在的还是外在的，都一直存在。 我们是否通过进一步的冲突，通过进一步的抗争，通过狡猾的努力来解决了那场战争，那场冲突？ 还是，只有当我们直接面对问题时，当我们面对事实时，我们才理解这个问题？ 只有当头脑与事实之间没有干扰的躁动时，我们才能面对事实， 那么，如果我们要理解，头脑处于安静中，难道不重要吗？

You will inevitably ask, "How can the mind be made still?" That is the immediate response, is it not? You say, "My mind is agitated and how can I keep it quiet?" Can any system make the mind quiet? Can a formula, a discipline, make the mind still? It can; but when the mind is made still, is that quietness, is that stillness? Or is the mind only enclosed within an idea, within a formula, within a phrase?

你不可避免地会问：“怎么能使头脑静下来？” 那是即刻的反应，不是吗？ 你说：“我的头脑很激动，我怎么能保持安静？” 任何系统能使头脑安静吗？一个公式，一个纪律，能让头脑静止吗？ 它能；但是当头脑被静止时，那是安静，是静止吗？ 还是头脑只被封闭在一个想法、一个公式、一个短语中？

Such a mind is a dead mind, is it not? That is why most people who try to be spiritual, so-called spiritual, are dead - because they have trained their minds to be quiet, they have enclosed themselves within a formula for being quiet. Obviously, such a mind is never quiet; it is only suppressed, held down.

这样的头脑是死头脑，它不是吗？ 这就是为什么大多数试图成为灵性的人，所谓的灵性，都死了。 —— 因为他们训练了自己的头脑保持安静， 他们把自己封闭在一个保持安静的公式中。 显然，这样的头脑永远不会安静；它只是被压抑，被镇压。

The mind is quiet when it sees the truth that understanding comes only when it is quiet; that if I would understand you, I must be quiet, I cannot have reactions against you, I must not be prejudiced, I must put away all my conclusions, my experiences and meet you face to face. Only then, when the mind is free from my conditioning, do I understand. When I see the truth of that, then the mind is quiet - and then there is no question of how to make the mind quiet.

当头脑看到只有安静时才能理解的真理时，它安静了； 如果我能理解你， 我必须安静，我不能对你有任何反应，我不能有偏见， 我必须抛弃我所有的结论，我的体验，与你面对面。 只有这样，当头脑从我的制约中解脱出来时，我才能理解。 当我看到其中的真理时，头脑安静了。 —— 那么，就没有如何使头脑安静的问题。

Only the truth can liberate the mind from its own ideation; to see the truth, the mind must realize the fact that so long as it is agitated it can have no understanding. Quietness of mind, tranquillity of mind, is not a thing to be produced by will-power, by any action of desire; if it is, then such a mind is enclosed, isolated, it is a dead mind and therefore incapable of adaptability, of pliability, of swiftness. Such a mind is not creative.

只有真理才能将头脑从自己的观念中解放； 要看到真理，头脑必须意识到一个事实，也就是，只要它焦躁不安，它就不能理解。 头脑的安静，头脑的宁静，不是由意志力、任何欲望的行为产生的； 如果它是，那么这样的头脑是封闭的，隔离的， 它是一个死的头脑，因此没有适应性、柔韧性和灵敏性。 这样的头脑是没有创造力的。

Our question, then, is not how to make the mind still but to see the truth of every problem as it presents itself to us. It is like the pool that becomes quiet when the wind stops. Our mind is agitated because we have problems; and to avoid the problems, we make the mind still.

那么，我们的问题， 不是如何使头脑静止，而是看到每一个问题的真理，当它们呈现于我们面前的时候。 它就像风停下后，变得安静的水池。 我们的头脑之所以激动，是因为我们有问题；为了避免这些问题，我们使头脑静止。

Now the mind has projected these problems and there are no problems apart from the mind; and so long as the mind projects any conception of sensitivity, practises any form of stillness, it can never be still. When the mind realizes that only by being still is there understanding - then it becomes very quiet. That quietness is not imposed, not disciplined, it is a quietness that cannot be understood by an agitated mind.

现在，头脑已经投射了这些问题，除了头脑之外没有问题； 只要头脑投射出任何灵敏的概念，练习任何形式的宁静，它就永远不可能静止。 当头脑意识到只有通过静止才能存在理解时，它就变得非常宁静。 那种安静不是强加的，不是训练出来的， 它是一颗躁动的头脑无法理解的宁静。

Many who seek quietness of mind withdraw from active life to a village, to a monastery, to the mountains, or they withdraw into ideas, enclose themselves in a belief or avoid people who give them trouble. Such isolation is not stillness of mind. The enclosure of the mind in an idea or the avoidance of people who make life complicated does not bring about stillness of mind.

许多寻求头脑安静的人从活跃的生命退缩到村庄，修道院，山区， 或者他们退缩到想法中，将自己封闭在信仰中或避开给他们带来麻烦的人。 这种隔离不是头脑的静止。 头脑被封闭在一个想法中，或者回避那些使生活变得复杂的人 不会带来头脑的静止。

Stillness of mind comes only when here is no process of isolation through accumulation but complete understanding of the whole process of relationship. Accumulation makes the mind old; only when the mind is new, when the mind is fresh, without the process of accumulation - only then is there a possibility of having tranquillity of mind.

头脑的静止的出现，只有当这里没有因积累而产生隔离， 并完全理解关系的整个过程的时候。 积累使头脑老旧； 只有当头脑是新的，当头脑是清新的，没有积累的过程 —— 只有这样，才有可能拥有宁静的头脑。

Such a mind is not dead, it is most active. The still mind is the most active mind but if you will experiment with it, go into it deeply, you will see that in stillness there is no projection of thought. Thought, at all levels, is obviously the reaction of memory and thought can never be in a state of creation. It may express creativeness but thought in itself can never be creative.

这样的头脑不是死的，它最活跃。 静止的头脑是最活跃的头脑，但如果你要实验它，那就深入它， 你将看到，在静止中没有思想的影子。 思想，在各个层面，显然是记忆的反应，思想永远不可能处于创造状态。 它可以表现出创造，但思想本身永远不可能是创造性的。

When there is silence, that tranquillity of mind which is not a result, then we shall see that in that quietness there is extraordinary activity, an extraordinary action which a mind agitated by thought can never know. In that stillness, there is no formulation, there is no idea, there is no memory; that stillness is a state of creation that can be experienced only when there is complete understanding of the whole process of the `me'. Otherwise, stillness has no meaning. Only in that stillness, which is not a result, is the eternal discovered, which is beyond time.

当有宁静时，那头脑的宁静不是一个结果， 那么，我们将在那种安静中看到 有非凡的活动，一种非凡的行动，而被思想搅动的头脑永远无法知道它。 在那静止中，没有公式，没有思想，没有记忆； 这种静止是一种创造状态，要体验那 只有当对“我”的整个过程有完全的理解时。 否则，静止就没有意义。 只有在那种不是结果的静止中，永恒才能被发现，也就是那超越时间的。

Question: We live but we do not know why. To so many of us, life seems to have no meaning. Can you tell us the meaning and purpose of our living?

问题：我们活着，但我们不知道为什么。 对我们许多人来说，生命似乎没有意义。 你能告诉我们我们生活的意义和目的吗？

Krishnamurti: Now why do you ask this question? Why are you asking me to tell you the meaning of life, the purpose of life? What do we mean by life? Does life have a meaning, a purpose? Is not living in itself its own purpose, its own meaning? Why do we want more?

克里希那穆提：现在你为什么问这个问题？ 你为什么要我告诉你生命的意义，生命的意图？ 我们所说的生命是什么意思？生命有意义，有意图吗？ 难道它自身的生活不是它自己的意图，不是它自身的意义吗？ 为什么我们想要更多？

Because we are so dissatisfied with our life, our life is so empty, so tawdry, so monotonous, doing the same thing over and over again, we want something more, something beyond that which we are doing. Since our everyday life is so empty, so dull, so meaningless, so boring, so intolerably stupid, we say life must have a fuller meaning and that is why you ask this question.

因为我们对自己的生命如此不满， 我们的生命是那么空虚，那么俗气，那么单调，一遍又一遍地做同样的事情， 我们想要更多的、超越我们正在做的事物。 因为我们每一天的生命是如此空虚，如此沉闷，如此毫无意义，如此无聊，如此愚蠢， 我们说生命必须有更完整的意义，这就是为什么你问这个问题。

Surely a man who is living richly, a man who sees things as they are and is content with what he has, is not confused; he is clear, therefore he does not ask what is the purpose of life. For him the very living is the beginning and the end.

可以肯定，一个活得丰富多彩的人， 一个看到事物本然，并对自己所拥有的东西感到满意的人，是没有困惑的； 他是清楚的，因此，他不问生命的意图是什么。 对他来说，生活就是新生和死亡。

Our difficulty is that, since our life is empty, we want to find a purpose to life and strive for it. Such a purpose of life can only be mere intellection, without any reality; when the purpose of life is pursued by a stupid, dull mind, by an empty heart, that purpose will also be empty. Therefore our purpose is how to make our life rich, not with money and all the rest of it but inwardly rich - which is not something cryptic.

我们的困难在于，既然我们的生命是空虚的，我们就想寻找生命的意图并为之奋斗。 这样一个生命的意图，只能是纯粹的智力，没有任何真实性； 当这个生命的意图被一个愚蠢的、迟钝的头脑，被一个空虚的心灵所追求时，那个意图也将是空洞的。 因此，我们的意图是如何使我们的生命丰富，不是利用金钱和其它所有的东西， 而是内在的丰富 —— 它不是什么神秘的东西。

When you say that the purpose of life is to be happy, the purpose of life is to find God, surely that desire to find God is an escape from life and your God is merely a thing that is known. You can only make your way towards an object which you know; if you build a staircase to the thing that you call God, surely that is not God.

当你说生命的意图是快乐，生命的目的是寻找上帝， 当然，寻找上帝的欲望是对生命的一种逃避，而你的上帝只是一种已知的东西。 你只能走向一个你所知道的对象； 如果你建造一个楼梯，通向你称之为上帝的那个东西，那肯定不是上帝。

Reality can be understood only in living, not in escape. When you seek a purpose of life, you are really escaping and not understanding what life is. Life is relationship, life is action in relationship; when I do not understand relationship, or when relationship is confused, then I seek a fuller meaning. Why are our lives so empty? Why are we so lonely, frustrated?

现实只能在生活中理解，而不能在逃避中。 当你寻求生命的一个目的时，你实际上是在逃避，没有理解生命是什么。 生命是关系，生命是关系中的行为； 当我不理解关系时，或者当关系混乱时，我就会寻求更完整的意义。 为什么我们的生活如此空虚？为什么我们如此孤独，沮丧？

Because we have never looked into ourselves and understood ourselves. We never admit to ourselves that this life is all we know and that it should therefore be understood fully and completely. We prefer to run away from ourselves and that is why we seek the purpose of life away from relationship.

因为我们从来没有审视过我们自己，理解过我们自己。 我们从不接受我们自己：这条命就是我们所知道的一切 因此，应该充分和完整地理解它。 我们宁愿从我们自己身上逃跑，这就是为什么我们远离关系，却去寻找生命的意图。

If we begin to understand action, which is our relationship with people, with property, with beliefs and ideas, then we will find that relationship itself brings its own reward.

如果我们开始理解行为， 也就是我们与人、与财产、与信仰和想法的关系， 那么我们会发现，关系本身会带来自己的回报。

You do not have to seek. It is like seeking love. Can you find love by seeking it? Love cannot be cultivated. You will find love only in relationship, not outside relationship, and it is because we have no love that we want a purpose of life. When there is love, which is its own eternity, then there is no search for God, because love is God.

你不必去寻求。它就像寻求爱。 你能通过寻求它找到爱吗？ 爱是无法被培养的。 你只会在关系中找到爱，而不是在关系之外， 正是因为我们没有爱，我们才想要一个生命的意义。 当有爱，它是它自己的永恒，那么，就没有对上帝的搜索，因为爱就是上帝。

It is because our minds are full of technicalities and superstitious mutterings that our lives are so empty and that is why we seek a purpose beyond ourselves. To find life's purpose we must go through the door of ourselves; consciously or unconsciously we avoid facing things as they are in themselves and so we want God to open for us a door which is beyond. This question about the purpose of life is put only by those who do not love. Love can be found only in action, which is relationship.

因为我们的头脑充满了技术细节和迷信的喃喃自语 我们的生活是如此空虚，那就是为什么我们寻求一个超越我们自己的意图。 为了找到生命的意图，我们必须穿过我们自身的这扇门； 有意或无意地，我们避免面对事物自身的本质。 因此，我们希望上帝为我们打开一扇门，超越之门。 这个关于生命的意义的问题，只有那些没有爱的人才会提出。 要发现爱，只能在行为中，也就是在关系里。

Question: I have listened to all your talks and I have read all your books. Most earnestly I ask you, what can be the purpose of my life if, as you say, all thought has to cease, all knowledge to be suppressed, all memory lost? How do you relate that state of being, whatever it may be according to you, to the world in which we live? What relation has such a being to our sad and painful existence?

问：我听过你所有的讲话，也读过你所有的书。 我最恳切地问你，如果，我生命的意图会是什么， 正如你所说，所有的思想都必须消逝，所有的知识都必须被压制，所有的记忆都得失去吗？ 你说的那种存在状态与我们所生活的世界之间， 你如何使两者关联？ 那样的一条生命与我们这种悲伤而痛苦的生命有什么关系？

Krishnamurti: We want to know what this state is which can only be when all knowledge, when the recognizer, is not; we want to know what relationship this state has to our world of daily activity, daily pursuits. We know what our life is now - sad, painful, constantly fearful, nothing permanent; we know that very well. We want to know what relationship this other state has to that - and if we put aside knowledge, become free from our memories and so on, what is the purpose of existence.

克里希那穆提：我们要想知道这种状态是什么，只有当所有知识，当这位识别者不存在的时候； 我们想知道这种状态与我们的日常活动、日常追求的世界有什么关系。 我们知道我们此刻的生命 —— 悲伤、痛苦、持续的恐惧，一切都不是永恒的； 我们非常熟悉那个。 我们想知道这另一个状态与那个有什么关系 —— 如果我们把知识放在一边，从我们的记忆中解脱，等等，存在的意图是什么。

What is the purpose of existence as we know it now? - not theoretically but actually? What is the purpose of our everyday existence? just to survive, isn't it? - with all its misery, with all its sorrow and confusion, wars, destruction and so on. We can invent theories, we can say: "This should not be, but something else should be." But those are all theories, they are not facts.

据我们现在所知，存在的意图是什么？ —— 不是理论上的，而是实际上的？ 我们日常生活的意图是什么？ 只是为了生存，不是吗？ —— 带着所有的悲惨，所有的悲伤和混乱，战争，破坏等等。 我们可以发明理论，我们可以说： “这是不应该的，而应该是别的某个东西。” 但那些都是理论，它们不是事实。

What we know is confusion, pain, suffering, endless antagonisms. We know also, if we are at all aware, how these come about. The purpose of life, from moment to moment, every day, is to destroy each other, to exploit each other, either as individuals or as collective human beings.

我们所知道的是困惑，痛，苦难，无休止的敌对。 我们也知道，如果我们还清醒的话，这些是如何产生的。 生命的意图，从这一刻到这一刻，每一天，都是互相毁灭，互相剥削， 无论是作为个人还是作为集体的人类。

In our loneliness, in our misery, we try to use others, we try to escape from ourselves - through amusements, through gods, through knowledge, through every form of belief, through identification. That is our purpose, conscious or unconscious, as we now live. Is there a deeper, wider purpose beyond, a purpose that is not of confusion, of acquisition? Has that effortless state any relation to our daily life ?

在我们的孤独中，在我们的悲惨中，我们试图利用别人，我们试图逃离我们自己 —— 通过娱乐，通过神灵，通过知识，通过各种形式的信仰，通过认同。 那就是我们的意图，有意的或无意的，是我们此刻的活法。 有没有一个更深刻、更广泛的意图，一个不是困惑的，不必猎取的意图？ 那种没有丝毫努力的状态与我们这条平常的生命有什么联系？

Certainly that has no relation at all to our life. How can it have? If my mind is confused, agonized, lonely, how can that be related to something which is not of itself? How can truth be related to falsehood, to illusion? We do not want to admit that, because our hope, our confusion, makes us believe in something greater, nobler, which we say is related to us. In our despair we seek truth, hoping that in the discovery of it our despair will disappear.

当然，那与我们的生命完全没有联系。怎么可能有呢？ 如果我的头脑是混乱的、痛苦的、孤独的，那怎么能与它本身无关的东西取得联系呢？ 真理怎么可能与虚假、幻觉相联系？ 我们不想承认那， 因为我们的希望，我们的困惑，使我们相信某种更伟大、更高尚的东西，我们说它与我们相关联。 在我们的绝望中，我们寻求真理，希望在发现真理时，我们的绝望会消失。

So we can see that a confused mind, a mind ridden with sorrow, a mind that is aware of its own emptiness, loneliness, can never find that which is beyond itself. That which is beyond the mind can only come into being when the causes of confusion, misery, are dispelled or understood. All that I have been saying, talking about, is how to understand ourselves, for without self-knowledge the other is not, the other is only an illusion.

所以我们可以看到一个混乱的头脑， 一个充满悲伤的头脑，一个意识到自己的空虚、孤独的头脑， 永远找不到超越它自身的东西。 超越头脑的东西要产生 只有当混乱、痛苦的原因被消解或被理解时。 那就是我一直在说的，在谈论的，如何去理解我们自己， 因为没有自我认识，那是不存在的，那种状态仅仅是一种幻觉。

If we can understand the total process of ourselves, from moment to moment, then we shall see that in clearing up our own confusion, the other comes into being. Then experiencing that will have a relation to this. But this will never have a relation to that. Being this side of the curtain, being in darkness, how can one have experience of light, of freedom? But when once there is the experience of truth, then you can relate it to this world in which we live.

如果我们能理解我们自己的整个过程，从这一刻到这一刻， 那么我们将看到，在清洁我们自身的困惑时，那一个产生了。 那么，体验那，就会与这有关系。 但这永远不会与那有任何关系。 在窗帘的这一边，在黑暗中，一个人怎么能体验到光明，自由呢？ 但是，一旦有了真理的体验，你就能把它与我们所生活的这个世界关联起来。

If we have never known what love is, but only constant wrangles, misery, conflicts, how can we experience that love which is not of all this? But when once we have experienced that, then we do not have to bother to find out the relationship. Then love, intelligence, functions. But to experience that state, all knowledge, accumulated memories, self-identified activities, must cease, so that the mind is incapable of any projected sensations. Then, experiencing that, there is action in this world.

如果我们从来不知道什么是爱， 却只是不断的争吵、受苦、冲突，我们怎么能体验到那种不属于这一切的那种爱呢？ 但是，一旦我们经历了那，我们就不必费心去找出这种关系。 那么，爱，智慧，作用。 但是要体验那种状态，所有的知识，积攒的记忆，自我认同的活动，都必须消逝， 那么一来，这颗头脑无法投射任何感觉。 那么，体验那，在这个世界上行动。

Surely that is the purpose of existence - to go beyond the self-centred activity of the mind. Having experienced that state, which is not measurable by the mind, then the very experiencing of that brings about an inward revolution. Then, if there is love, there is no social problem.

当然，那就是存在的意图 —— 走出头脑以自我为中心的活动。 体验过那种状态，那是无法用头脑测量的， 那么，这种体验带来一场内在的革命。 那么，如果有爱，就没有社会问题。

There is no problem of any kind when there is love. `Because we do not know how to love we have social problems and systems of philosophy on how to deal with our problems. I say these problems can never be solved by any system, either of the left or of the right or of the middle. They can be solved - our confusion, our misery, our self-destruction - only when we can experience that state which is not self-projected.

当有爱时，没有任何问题。 “因为我们不知道如何去爱 我们有社会问题和如何处理我们问题的哲学体系。 我说这些问题永远不能用任何制度来解决，无论是左派、右派或中间派。 它们能被解决 —— 我们的困惑、我们的悲苦、我们的自我毁灭 —— 只有当我们能够体验到那种不是自我投射的状态时。

Question: What do you mean by transformation?

问题：你所说的转变是什么意思？

Krishnamurti: Obviously, there must be a radical revolution. The world crisis demands it. Our lives demand it. Our everyday incidents, pursuits, anxieties, demand it. Our problems demand it. There must be a fundamental, radical revolution, because everything about us has collapsed. Though seemingly there is order, in fact there is slow decay, destruction: the wave of destruction is constantly overtaking the wave of life.

克里希那穆提：显然，必须有一场根本性的革命。 世界危机要求这样做。我们的生活需要它。 我们的日常事件、追求、焦虑，都需要它。 我们的问题需要它。 必须有一场根本的、彻底的革命，因为我们的一切都在崩溃。 虽然表面上有秩序，但实际上在缓慢的衰败、毁灭： 毁灭的浪潮不断压倒生命的浪潮。

So there must be a revolution - but not a revolution based on an idea. Such a revolution is merely the continuation of the idea, not a radical transformation. A revolution based on an idea brings bloodshed, disruption, chaos. Out of chaos you cannot create order; you cannot deliberately bring about chaos and hope to create order out of that chaos. You are not the God-chosen who are to create order out of confusion That is such a false way of thinking on the part of those people who wish to create more and more confusion in order to bring about order. Because for the moment they have power, they assume they know all the ways of producing order.

因此，必须有一场革命 —— 但不是一场基于想法的革命。 这样的革命只是想法的延续，而不是根本性的转变。 基于一个想法的革命会带来流血、破坏和混乱。 在混乱中，你不能创造秩序； 你不能故意制造混乱，并希望从混乱中创造秩序。 你不是上帝所拣选的，要从混乱中创造秩序的那位 某些人希望通过制造越来越多的混乱以建立秩序，这是一种错误的思考方式。 因为当他们拥有权力的那一刻，他们就以为他们知道生产秩序的所有方式。

Seeing the whole of this catastrophe - the constant repetition of wars, the ceaseless conflict between classes, between peoples, the awful economic and social inequality, the inequality of capacity and gifts, the gulf between those who are extraordinarily happy, unruffled, and those who are caught in hate, conflict, and misery - seeing all this, there must be a revolution, there must be complete transformation, must there not?

看到这场灾难的整体 —— 战争的不断重复， 阶级之间、民族之间无休止的冲突， 可怕的经济和社会不平等，能力和天性的不平等， 那些非常快乐、不慌不忙的人以及那些陷入仇恨、冲突和悲惨的人之间的鸿沟 —— 看到这一切，必需有一场革命，必须彻底转变，不必吗？

Is this transformation, is this radical revolution, an ultimate thing or is it from moment to moment? I know we should like it to be the ultimate thing, because it is so much easier to think in terms of far away. Ultimately we shall be transformed, ultimately we shall be happy, ultimately we shall find truth; in the meantime, let us carry on. Surely such a mind, thinking in terms of the future, is incapable of acting in the present; therefore such a mind is not seeking transformation, it is merely avoiding transformation. What do we mean by transformation?

这种转变，这种激进的革命，是终极产物，还是在每一刻？ 我知道，我们希望它会是终极的东西，因为它更容易从遥远的角度来思考。 最终我们将被转变，最终我们将快乐，最终我们将找到真理； 与此同时，让我们继续前进。 当然，这种从未来的角度来思考的头脑，在当下是无法行动的； 因此，这样的头脑不是在寻求转变，它只是在逃避转变。 我们所说的转变是什么意思？

Transformation is not in the future, can never be in the future. It can only be now, from moment to moment. So what do we mean by transformation? Surely it is very simple: seeing the false as the false and the true as the true. Seeing the truth in the false and seeing the false in that which has been accepted as the truth. Seeing the false as the false and the true as the true is transformation, because when you see something very clearly as the truth, that truth liberates.

转变不是在未来，永远不可能在未来。 它只能是现在，在每一刻。因此，我们所说的转变是什么意思？ 当然，它很简单：看见假即是假，真即是真。 看见虚假中的真，看见在被当作真理的假。 看见假即假，真即真，就是转变， 因为当你非常清楚地看到某个东西，就是真理，这个真理就是解放。

When you see that something is false, that false thing drops away. When you see that ceremonies are mere vain repetitions, when you see the truth of it and do not justify it, there is transformation, is there not?, because another bondage is gone. When you see that class distinction is false, that it creates conflict, creates misery, division between people - when you see the truth of it, that very truth liberates. The very perception of that truth is transformation, is it not?

当你看到某个东西是假的时，那件假的东西就消失了。 当你看到仪式只是徒劳的重复时， 当你看到它的真理而不为它辩护时，就有转变，没有吗？ 因为另一个束缚消失了。 当你看到阶级划分是假的，是它创造出冲突，制造出悲痛，分裂了人们 —— 当你看到它的真理时，那个真理就是解放。 对那个真理的感知，就是转变，它不是吗？

As we are surrounded by so much that is false, perceiving the falseness from moment to moment is transformation. Truth is not cumulative. It is from moment to moment. That which is cumulative, accumulated, is memory, and through memory you can never find truth, for memory is of time - time being the past, the present and the future. Time, which is continuity, can never find that which is eternal; eternity is not continuity.

当我们被如此多的虚假所包围时，每时每刻感知虚假就是转变。 真理是无法累积的。它是每一刻。 可累积的，被积攒的，是记忆， 通过记忆，你永远找不到真理，因为记忆从属于时间。 —— 时间就是这个过去，这个现在和这个未来。 时间，这个延续下来的东西，永远找不到永恒；永恒没有延续性。

That which endures is not eternal. Eternity is in the moment. Eternity is in the now. The now is not the reflection of the past nor the continuance of the past through the present to the future.

那持续存在的，不是永恒。 永恒在眼前。 永恒在此刻。 此刻不是这个过去的反映，也不是这个过去，通过这个现在延续到这个未来。

A mind which is desirous of a future transformation or looks to transformation as an ultimate end, can never find truth, for truth is a thing that must come from moment to moment, must be discovered anew; there can be no discovery through accumulation. How can you discover the new if you have the burden of the old? It is only with the cessation of that burden that you discover the new. To discover the new, the eternal, in the present, from moment to moment, one needs an extraordinarily alert mind, a mind that is not seeking a result, a mind that is not becoming.

一颗渴望一种未来的转变，或者把转变视为终极目标的头脑， 永远找不到真理，因为真理是某个时刻发生的东西，必须重新发现； 不可能通过积累来发现。 如果你有旧的负担，你怎么能发现新的？ 只有随着这种负担的消逝，你才能发现新的。 现在，要发现这种新，这种永恒，在每时每刻，一个人需要一颗异常警觉的头脑， 一颗不寻求结果的头脑，一颗没有成为的头脑。

A mind that is becoming can never know the full bliss of contentment; not the contentment of smug satisfaction; not the contentment of an achieved result, but the contentment that comes when the mind sees the truth in what is and the false in what is. The perception of that truth is from moment to moment; and that perception is delayed through verbalization of the moment.

一个正在成为的头脑，永远无法知道满足的完整的祝福； 不是自鸣得意的满足； 不是对取得的成果的满足， 而是当头脑看到什么是真理，什么是虚假时，出现的满足。 对那个真理的感知是每时每刻的； 这种感知被推迟，在言语化的时候。

Transformation is not an end, a result. Transformation is not a result. Result implies residue, a cause and an effect. Where there is causation, there is bound to be effect. The effect is merely the result of your desire to be transformed. When you desire to be transformed, you are still thinking in terms of becoming; that which is becoming can never know that which is being. Truth is being from moment to moment and happiness that continues is not happiness. Happiness is that state of being which is timeless.

转变不是一个目的，一个结果。 转变不是一个结果。 结果意味着残留，一个原因和一个结果。 哪里有原因，哪里就必然有结果。 这种效果只是你渴望被转化的结果。 当你渴望被转变时，你仍然在以成为的方式思考； 正在成为的，永远无法知道那新生的。 真理，每时每刻新，那被延续的快乐不是快乐。 快乐是无时间的生命状态。

That timeless state can come only when there is a tremendous discontent - not the discontent that has found a channel through which it escapes but the discontent that has no outlet, that has no escape, that is no longer seeking fulfilment. Only then, in that state of supreme discontent, can reality come into being. That reality is not to be bought, to be sold, to be repeated; it cannot be caught in books. It has to be found from moment to moment, in the smile, in the tear, under the dead leaf, in the vagrant thoughts, in the fullness of love.

只有当存在巨大的不满时，这种无时间的状态才能到来。 —— 不是找个借口去逃避的不满 而是没有借口，没有逃避，不再寻求满足的不满。 只有那样，在那种极度不满的状态下，现实才能产生。 这个现实不是要去买的，不是要去卖的，不是要去重复的； 它不能被书本抓住。 它必须每时每刻被发现， 在微笑中，在眼泪中，在枯叶下，在流浪的思绪中，在爱的充盈中。

Love is not different from truth. Love is that state in which the thought process, as time, has completely ceased. Where love is, there is transformation. Without love, revolution has no meaning, for then revolution is merely destruction, decay, a greater and greater evermounting misery. Where there is love, there is revolution, because love is transformation from moment to moment.

爱与真理没有什么不同。 爱，就是作为时间的思想活动完全消逝的状态。 爱在哪里，哪里就有转变。 没有爱，革命就没有意义， 因为那时，革命仅仅是毁灭、腐朽，越来越深重的悲惨。 哪里有爱，哪里就有革命，因为爱是每一刻的转变。