THE PATH WAS rough and dusty, and it led down to a small town below. A few trees remained scattered on the hillside, but most of them had been cut down for firewood, and one had to climb to a good height to find rich shade. Up there the trees were no longer scrubby and mauled by man; they grew to full height, with thick branches and normal foliage. The people would cut down a branch to allow their goats to eat the leaves, and when it was bare they would reduce it to firewood. There was a scarcity of wood at the lower levels, and now they were going higher, climbing and destroying. Rains were not as plentiful as they used to be; the population was increasing, and the people had to live. There was hunger and one lived as indifferently as one died. There were no wild animals about here, and they must have gone higher up. There were a few birds scratching among the bushes, but even they looked worn out, with some feathers broken. A jay, white and black, was scolding raucously, flying from limb to limb of a solitary tree.
这条路崎岖不平，尘土飞扬，一直通向下面的一个小镇。 山坡上还散落着几棵树，但大部分都被砍倒做柴烧了， 一个人必须爬到一个好高的海拔才能找到浓厚的树荫。 在那里，树木不再是小灌木，可被人砍伐的。 它们长到完全的高度，有粗枝和浓密的、成熟的叶子。 人们会砍掉一根树枝，让他们的山羊吃叶子， 当它光秃秃的时候，他们会把它变成木柴。 在较低的海拔高度，木材稀缺， 现在他们正在向上走，攀爬并摧毁。 雨水不像以前那么充沛了。 人口在增加，人们不得不维持生计。 饥饿，一个人像死了一样冷漠地生活。 这里没有了野生动物，它们一定爬得更高了。 有几只鸟在灌木丛中抓挠， 但即使是它们，看起来也疲惫不堪，一些羽毛已经断裂。 一只白黑相间的鸦在喧闹地骂着，从一棵孤独的树的枝桠上，飞向另一条枝桠。
It was getting warm, and it would be very hot by midday. There had not been enough rain for many years. The earth was parched and cracked, the few trees were covered with brown dust, and there was not even the morning dew. The sun was relentless, day after day, month in and month out, and the doubtful rainy season was still far away. Some goats went up the hill, with a boy looking after them. He was surprised to see anyone there, but he wouldn't smile, and with a grave look he followed the goats. It was a lonely place, and there was the silence of the coming heat.
天气变得热起来了，中午会很炎热。 多年来雨水不足。大地干燥开裂， 几棵树上沾满了褐色的灰尘，连晨露都没有。 太阳是无情的，日复一日，月复一月， 而可疑的雨季还很遥远。 一些山羊上山，一个男孩照顾着它们。 他很惊讶地看到有人在那里，但他不会微笑， 他用忧郁的眼神跟随着山羊。 它是一个寂寞的地方，有即将袭来的热浪的寂静。
Two women came down the path carrying firewood on their heads. One was old and the other quite young, and the burdens they carried looked rather heavy. Each had balanced on her head, protected by a roll of cloth, a long bundle of dried branches tied together with a green vine, and she held it in place with one hand. Their bodies swung freely as they came down the hill with a light, running gait. They had nothing on their feet, though the path was rough. The feet seemed to find their own way, for the women never looked down; they held their heads very straight, their eyes bloodshot and distant. They were very thin, their ribs showing, and the older woman's hair was matted and un washed. The girl's hair must have been combed and oiled at one time, for there were still some clean, sparkling strands; but she too was exhausted, and there was a weariness about her. Not long ago she must have sung and played with other children but that was all over. Now, collecting wood among these hills was her life, and would be till she died, with a respite now and then with the coming of a child.
两个女人头上拎着木柴走在小路上。 一个年长，另一个很年轻，她们负重的行李看起来相当沉重。 每个人都在她的头上保持平衡，用一卷布保护， 一长束干树枝用绿色的藤蔓绑在一起， 她用一只手把它固定在原处。 当她们以轻盈的奔跑姿态下坡时，她们的身体自由地摆动。 她们的脚上一无所有，尽管道路崎岖不平。 脚似乎找到了自己的路，因为女人们从不低头。 她们把头挺直，眼睛布满血丝，凝视远方。 她们很瘦，肋骨露了出来， 年长的女人的头发是哑光的，没有洗。 女孩的头发一定曾经梳理过，涂过油， 因为还有一些干净、闪亮的发丝。 但她也筋疲力尽，有一种疲惫感。 不久前，她一定和其他孩子一起唱歌和玩耍，但那一切都结束了。 现在，在这些山丘中收集木材，就是她的生命，直到她死去， 随着孩子的降生，她时不时地会得到喘息的机会。
Down the path we all went. The small country town was several miles away, and there they would sell their burden for a pittance, only to begin again tomorrow. They were chatting, with long intervals of silence. Suddenly the younger one told her mother she was hungry, and the mother replied that they were born with hunger, lived with hunger, and died with hunger; that was their lot. It was the statement of a fact; in her voice there was no reproach, no anger, no hope. We continued down that stony path. There was no observer listening, pitying, and walking behind them. He was not part of them out of love and pity; he was them; he had ceased and they were. They were not the strangers he had met up the hill, they were of him; his were the hands that held the bundles; and the sweat, the exhaustion the smell, the hunger, were not theirs, to be shared and sorrowed over. Time and space had ceased. There were no thoughts in our heads, too tired to think; and if we did think, it was to sell the wood, eat, rest, and begin again. The feet on the stony path never hurt, nor the sun overhead. There were only two of us going down that accustomed hill, past that well where we drank as usual, and on across the dry bed of a remembered stream.
我们沿着路走下去。 这个乡村小镇就在几英里外， 在那里，他们会为了一点钱而出卖自己的木材，明天才重新开始。 她们在聊天，沉默了很久。 突然，年幼的那位告诉她的母亲：她饿了， 母亲回答说，她们生来就饥饿， 饿着肚子活着，是她们的命。 这是对事实的陈述。 在她的声音里，没有责备，没有愤怒，没有希望。 我们继续沿着那条石头路走下去。 没有观察者在她们身后倾听、怜悯和行走。 他不是出于爱和怜悯而成为她们的一部分。 他就是她们；他已经消逝了，她们在。 她们不是他在山上遇到的陌生人，她们属于他。 他是握着那捆木材的手； 汗水，疲惫的气味，饥饿， 不是她们的，而是在共同的分担。 时间和空间已经停止。 我们的头脑没有念头，太辛苦也至于无法思考； 如果我们在思考，那就是卖掉木头，吃，休息，然后重新开始。 在石头小路上的脚从未受伤，头顶上的太阳也没有。 我们只有两个人沿着那座熟悉的山坡走下去， 经过我们时常喝水的那口井，穿过一条记忆中的溪流的干涸河床。
"I have read and listened to some of your talks," he said, "and to me, what you say appears very negative; there is in it no directive no positive way of life. This oriental outlook is most destructive, and look where it has landed the Orient. Your negative attitude, and especially your insistence that there must be freedom from all thought, is very misleading to us westerners, who are active and industrious by temperament and necessity. What you are teaching is altogether contrary to our way of life."
“我读过并听了你的一些讲话，”他说， “对我来说，你说的似乎很消极。 其中没有指示，没有积极的生活方式。 这种东方观念最具破坏性，看看它把东方世界引导到了哪种地步。 你的消极态度，特别是你坚持认为 必须有摆脱所有思想的自由，这对我们西方人来说，具有非常深的误导性， 他们因气质和必要性而活跃和勤奋。 你所教导的完全违背了我们的生活方式。”
If one may point out, this division of people as of the West or of the East is geographic and arbitrary, is it not? It has no fundamental significance. Whether we live east or west of a certain line, whether we are brown, black, white, or yellow, we are all human beings, suffering and hoping, fearful and believing; joy and pain exist here as they exist there. Thought is not of the West or of the East, but man divides it according to his conditioning. Love is not geographic held as sacred on one continent and denied on another. The division of human beings is for economic and exploiting purposes. This does not mean that individuals are not different in temperament, and so on; there is similarity, and yet there is difference. All this is fairly obvious and psychologically factual, is it not?
如果有人可以指出， 这种从地理上对西方人或东方人的划分是武断的，不是吗？ 它没什么意义。 无论我们生活在某条线的东边还是西边， 无论我们是棕色的、黑色的、白色的还是黄色的，我们都是人， 这里存在着痛苦和希望，恐惧和相信；欢乐和痛苦，就像那里也存在着这些一样。 思想不是西方的，也不是东方的，而是人根据自己的局限而划分出来的。 爱不是在某个大陆上是神圣的，而在另一个大陆上却被否认。 人类的划分，是为了经济上和剥削上的意图。 这并不意味着个体在气质或其他方面上没有区别； 存在着相似之处，但也有不同的地方。 所有这些都是相当明显，也是心理上的事实，不是吗？
"It may be to you, but our culture, our way of life, is entirely different from that of the East. Our scientific knowledge, slowly developing since the days of ancient Greece, is now immense. East and West are developing along two different lines."
“对你来说，可能是的， 但我们的文化，我们的生活方式，与东方完全不同。 自古希腊时代以来，我们的科学知识发展缓慢，现在却是巨大的。 东方和西方正沿着两条不同的路线发展。”
Seeing the difference, we must yet be aware of the similarity. The outward expressions may and do vary, but behind these outward forms and manifestations the urges, compulsions, longings and fears are similar. Do not let us be deceived by words. Both here and there, man wants to have peace and plenty, and to find something more than material happiness. Civilizations may vary according to climate, environment, food and so on, but culture throughout the world is fundamentally the same: to be compassionate, to shun evil, to be generous not to be envious, to forgive, and so on. Without this fundamental culture, any civilization, whether here or there, will disintegrate or be destroyed. Knowledge may be acquired by the so-called backward peoples, they can very soon learn the 'know-how' of the West; they too can be warmongers, generals, lawyers, policemen, tyrants, with concentration camps and all the rest of it. But culture is an entirely different matter. The love of God and the freedom of man are not so easily come by and without these, material welfare doesn't mean much.
看到差异，我们也必须意识到相似之处。 外在的表达可能而且确实有所不同， 但在这些外在形式和表现背后， 冲动、强迫、渴望和恐惧是相似的。 不要让我们被言语欺骗。 无论在这里还是那里，人类都希望拥有和平和富足， 并找到比物质快乐更多的东西。 文明可能因气候、环境、食物等而有所不同， 但世界各地的文化基本上是一样的： 慈爱、避免邪恶、慷慨而不嫉妒，宽恕等等。 没有这种基本文化，任何文明，无论是在这里还是那里， 都将瓦解或被摧毁。 知识可以被所谓的落后的民族所获得， 他们很快就能学到西方的“诀窍”； 他们也可能变成好战分子、将军、律师、警察、暴君， 建立集中营，以及其他所有的一切。 但文化是一个完全不同的情况。 上帝的爱和人的自由不是那么容易实现的， 而没有这些，物质福利就没有多大意义。
"You are right in that, sir, but I wish you would consider what I said about your teachings being negative. I really would like to understand them, and don't think me rude if I appear somewhat direct in my statements."
“这一点你说得对，先生， 但我希望你能考虑一下我所说的关于你的教义的消极性。 我真的很想理解他们， 如果我在陈述中显得有些直接，不要认为我是粗鲁的。”
What is negative and what is positive? Most of us are used to being told what to do. The giving and following of directions is considered to be positive teaching. To be led appears to be positive, constructive, and to those who are conditioned to follow, the truth that following is evil seems negative, destructive. Truth is the negation of the false, not the opposite of the false. Truth is entirely different from the positive and the negative, and a mind which thinks in terms of the opposites can never be aware of it.
什么是消极的，什么是积极的？ 我们大多数人都习惯于被告知该怎么做。 给出和遵循指示被认为是积极的教导。 被人指导，似乎是积极的，有建设性的， 而那些习惯于追随的人来说， 这种追随的做法是邪恶的，似乎是消极的，破坏性的。 真理是对假的否定，而不是假的对立面。 真理与积极和消极完全无关， 一个从对立面思考的头脑，永远无法意识到它。
"I am afraid I do not fully understand all this. Would you please explain a little more?"
“恐怕我并不完全理解这一切。你能再解释一下吗？”
You see, sir, we are used to authority and guidance. The urge to be guided springs from the desire to be secure, to be protected, and also from the desire to be successful. This is one of our deeper urges, is it not? "I think it is, but without protection and security, man would..."
你看，先生，我们已经习惯了权威和指导。 被指导的冲动源于对安全、受保护的渴望， 也源于对成功的渴望。 这是我们更深层次的冲动之一，不是吗？ “我认为是的，但是如果没有保护和安全，人会……”
Please let us go into the matter and not jump to conclusions. In our urge to be secure, not only as individuals, but as groups, nations and races, have we not built a world in which war, within and outside of a particular society, has become the major concern?
请让我们进入这个问题，不要去下结论。 我们不仅作为个人，而且作为集体、国家和种族，都渴望安全， 我们已经建立一个世界，具有特殊的社会和之外的社会 而其中的战争已成为主要关切的问题，难道不是这样吗？
"I know; my son was killed in a war across the seas."
“我知道；我的儿子在一场远洋战争中丧生了。”
Peace is a state of mind; it is the freedom from all desire to be secure. The mind-heart that seeks security must always be in the shadow of fear. Our desire is not only for material security, but much more for inner, psychological security, and it is this desire to be inwardly secure through virtue, through belief, through a nation, that creates limiting and so conflicting groups and ideas. This desire to be secure, to reach a coveted end, breeds the acceptance of direction, the following of example, the worship of success the authority of leaders saviours, Masters, gurus, all of which is called positive teaching; but it is really thoughtlessness and imitation.
和平是一种头脑的状态；是从一切追求安全的欲望中解放。 寻求安全的头脑，必定始终处于恐惧的阴影之下。 我们不仅渴望是物质上的安全， 更想要内在的心理安全， 正是这种想要通过美德，通过信仰，通过一个国家 来获得内在安全的渴望，制造出受限的、相互冲突的组织机构和观念。 这种对安全的渴望，达到梦寐以求的终点的愿景， 滋生了对指导的接纳，对榜样的追随， 对成功、领导者、救世主、大师、导师的崇拜， 所有这些都被称为积极的教导； 但它真的只是一种愚昧和模仿行为。
"I see that; but is it not possible to direct or be directed without making oneself or another into an authority, a saviour?"
“我看到了这一点；但是，难道没有可能 在不使自己或他人成为权威、救世主的情况下，去指导或被引导吗？”
We are trying to understand the urge to be directed, are we not?
我们正试图理解被引导的冲动，不是吗？
What is this urge? Is it not the outcome of fear? Being insecure, seeing impermanency about one, there is the urge to find something secure, permanent; but this urge is the impulse of fear. Instead of understanding what fear is, we run away from it, and the very running away is fear. One takes flight into the known, the known being beliefs, rituals, patriotism, the comforting formulas of religious teachers the reassurances of priests, and so on. These in turn bring conflict between man and man, so the problem is kept going from one generation to another. If one would solve the problem, one must explore and understand the root of it. This so-called positive teaching, the what-to-think of religions, including Communism, gives continuity to fear; so positive teaching is destructive.
这种冲动是什么？这难道不是出于恐惧吗？ 没有安全感，看到一个人的无常， 产生了寻找某种安全的、永久的事物的冲动； 但这种冲动源于恐惧。 我们没有去理解恐惧是什么，而是在逃离它， 这种逃离的行为，正是恐惧。 一个人飞向已知：已知的信仰、仪式、爱国主义， 宗教老师提供的舒适的模式，牧师的保证，等等。 这些已知，反过来又带来了人与人之间的冲突， 所以，问题一直代代相传。 如果一个人要解决这个问题，他必须探索和理解它的根源。 这种所谓的积极的教导，这种宗教观念， 包括共产主义在内，使得恐惧持续的存在；所以积极的教诲是破坏性的。
"I think I am beginning to see what your approach is, and I hope my perception is correct."
“我想我开始看到你的方法是什么，我希望我的感觉是正确的。”
It is not a personal, opinionated approach; there is no personal approach to truth, any more than there is to the discovery of scientific facts. The idea that there are separate paths to truth, that truth has different aspects, is unreal; it is the speculative thought of the intolerant trying to be tolerant. "One has to be very careful, I see, in the use of words. But I would like, if I may, to go back to a point which I raised earlier. Since most of us have been educated to think - or have been taught what to think, as you put it - , will it not bring us only more confusion when you keep on saying in different ways that all thought is conditioned and that one must go beyond all thought?"
它不是一种个人的、固执己见的方法； 不存在一种个人的方法来抵达真理， 就像发现科学事实一样。 认为有通往真理的不同道路，真理有不同的侧面，这种想法是不真实的； 这是没有耐心的人试图变得耐心的投机思维。 “我看到，在用词时，人必须非常地小心。 但是，如果可以的话，我想回到我早些时候提出的一点。 既然我们大多数人都被教育去思考 —— 或者被教导要去思考什么，正如你所说 —— 那么，当你不断地以不同的方式说，所有思想都是受限的， 一个人必须超越所有思想时， 这难道不会给我们带来更多的困惑吗？”
To most of us, thinking is extraordinarily important; but is it? It has a certain importance, but thought cannot find that which is not the product of thought. Thought is the result of the known, therefore it cannot fathom the unknown, the unknowable. Is not thought desire, desire for material necessities, or for the highest spiritual goal? We are talking, not about the thought of a scientist at work in the laboratory, or the thought of an absorbed mathematician, and so on, but about thought as it operates in our daily life, in our everyday contacts and responses. To survive, we are forced to think. Thinking is a process of survival, whether of the individual or of a nation. Thinking, which is desire in both its lowest and its highest form, must ever be self-enclosing, conditioning. Whether we think of the universe, of our neighbour, of ourselves, or of God, all our thinking is limited, conditioned, it not?
对我们大多数人来说，思考是非常重要的。但它真地重要吗？ 它具有一定的重要性， 但思想找不到不是思想产物的东西。 思想是已知的结果，因此它无法理解未知，那不可知的。 难道思想不是欲望，对物质必需品的渴望，或对最高灵性目标的渴望吗？ 我们谈论的不是一个科学家在实验室工作的思想， 也不是一个专注的数学家的思想，等等， 而是在我们的日常生活中运转的、在我们的日常的接人待物和反应中运作的思想。 为了生存，我们被迫去思考。 思考是一个求生存的过程，无论是个人的还是国家的生存。 思考，即是欲望，无论是最低的还是最高形式的欲望， 必定是自我封闭的、受限的。 无论我们思考宇宙、我们的邻居、我们自己，还是思考上帝， 我们所有的思想都是有限的、受条件限制的，不是吗？
"In the sense you are using that word 'thinking', I suppose it is. But does not knowledge help to break down this conditioning."
“从某种意义上说，你使用的是'思考'这个词，我想是的。 但知识无助于打破这种局限。”
Does it? We have accumulated knowledge about so many aspects of life - medicine, war, law, science - and there is at least some knowledge of ourselves, of our own consciousness. With all this vast store of information, are we free from sorrow, war, hate? Will more knowledge free us? One may know that war is inevitable as long as the individual, the group, or the nation is ambitious, seeking power, yet one continues in the ways that lead to war. Can the centre which breeds antagonism, hate, be radically transformed through knowledge? Love is not the opposite of hate; if through knowledge hate is changed to love, then it is not love. This change brought about by thought, by will, is not love, but merely another self-protective convenience.
是吗？我们已经积累了关于生活的许多方面的知识 —— 医学、战争、法律、科学 —— 至少对我们自己的意识有一些认知。 有了这些庞大的信息储备，我们是否摆脱了悲伤、战争和仇恨？ 更多的知识会解放我们吗？ 一个人可能知道：只要个人、集体或国家有野心、在寻求权力， 战争就无法避免。 但人继续以这种导致战争的方式生活。 这种滋生出对抗、仇恨的中心能否通过知识而彻底改变？ 爱不是恨的对立面； 如果通过知识能使恨变成了爱，那么它就不是爱。 这种由思想、意志带来的变化，不是爱， 而只是另一种自我保护的便利。
"I don't follow this at all, if I may say so."
“如果我可以这么说的话，我根本没有理解这一点。”
Thought is the response of what has been, the response of memory, is it not? Memory is tradition, experience, and its reaction to any new experience is the outcome of the past; so experience is always strengthening the past. The mind is the result of the past, of time; thought is the product of many yesterdays. When thought seeks to change itself, trying to be or not to be this or that, it merely perpetuates itself under a different name. Being the product of the known, thought can never experience the unknown; being the result of time, it can never understand the timeless, the eternal. Thought must cease for the real to be.
思想是源于过往的反应，是记忆的回音，不是吗？ 记忆是传统，体验， 它对任何新的体验的反应，都是过去的产物； 所以体验总是在强化过去。 头脑是过去、时间的产物； 思想是许多个昨天的产物。 当思想试图改变自己，试图成为或不成为这个或那个时， 它只是用了一个不同的名称，来使自己永久化。 作为已知的产物，思想永远无法体验未知； 作为时间的结果，它永远无法理解非时间的、永恒的事物。 思想必须停止，真理才会存在。
You see, sir, we are so afraid to lose what we think we have, that we never go into these things very deeply. We look at the surface of ourselves and repeat words and phrases that have very little significance; so we remain petty, and breed antagonism as thoughtlessly as we breed children. "As you said, we are thoughtless in our seeming thoughtfulness. I shall come again if I may."
你看，先生，我们非常害怕失去我们认为我们已经拥有的东西， 以至于我们从来没有深入地研究过这些东西。 我们瞧着自己的脸面， 重复着那些意义不大的词语和短句； 因此，我们依然渺小，并像我们繁殖孩子一样轻率地滋养着敌对。 “正如你所说，我们看似深思熟虑，实则是轻率的。如果可以的话，我会再来。”